Quantcast
Yes you can mix with plug ins - Page 3 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Yes you can mix with plug ins
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
ryanojohn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You know, I used to say, hardware was overrated. Then I started mixing on consoles with a ton of outboard gear. The workflow is completely different, and consoles sound great. The recall can take a while, but that's not really my complaint... My issue is that I can't work on multiple records at one time when using a console.

I've found that I myself work best mixing ITB, with outboard gear, items that just don't have great plugin equivalents, distressors, 1176s, SPX90, 480L, Tape Delays, and often doing the final sum on a console, and sometimes down to my 1/4" deck...

I personally find the best situation to be a mix of outboard, and ITB work.



There are certainly amazing benefits such as the convenience of plugins, and similarly benefits to the tone of hardware... why not embrace both? 'cause I certainly can't afford hardware of the 23 API550As and 4 Fairchild 670s which are on the session I'm working on
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Am I the only one who thinks we should embrace both?
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
H-Rezz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick ➡️
Am I the only one who thinks we should embrace both?
No matter what anybody say's , 99% of people on Gearslutz embrace both , some to a high degree some to a lower degree
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick ➡️
Am I the only one who thinks we should embrace both?
I do not know any serious pro that does not embrace both.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
I do not know any serious pro that does not embrace both.
Exactly!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
colinmiller's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Maybe this has already said, but I think a better question posed to MB (since his answer is something that most everyone already agrees with and feels prior to his input) is that if he had to mix a project both with his gear and then with plugins which does he think would come out better.

Of course if it's most likely he will say his hardware just as its likely the same question posed to a mixer who only uses plugins would be just the opposite.

I don't think I could live without either these days. I also have been a tape person and grew up using tape but after having had to use a DAW for so long I think I would be terrified at having to do a volca session on tape now. Would I remember how to punch in parts of words anymore? Who knows.
Old 27th January 2009
  #67
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
all that gear

That picture of gear that RCM posted is sick!
I don't think I could get any work done with all those options.
I guess a couple of good pre's, a compressor , and a nice E.Q.
would do it for me.

Like if you walked into a ***** house and they had 60 girls there, I think I would spend more time looking and deciding than "working" . But show me
a few, and it's strait to "business" ! Then you just make it "work".
HE>He (not that i've ever been to one, but i like the analagy). lol.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #68
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone ➡️
If I want my projects to sound less than par I would use all pulgs, I want a better golf game....... I do use very little eq and bits of verb delay and that is rare, effects and compression in pulgs has not stepped up to the hardware sound and I don't think it will. Long live hardware....
So I said I need a break from GS and that is still true but this comment made me curious.

Today I was at a studio of a friend he has a lot of nice Outboard LA3A and LA2A as well as 1176LN Blackface etc.

So I took an Apple Drum Loop and compresed it one with an analouge compressor one with software. I may went a little extreme with both....but software is so bad so it should not sound any equal to yoh?

So if software is so bad it should be easy for you to pick the right sample from the first few bars on.

For me it is very hard to tell which is which.

Andreas
Attached Files

LOOP 1 AT 120 BPM.wav (2.02 MB, 243 views)

LOOP 2 AT 120 BPM.wav (2.02 MB, 254 views)

Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Phaidon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't find this a legit test/comparison.
Isolated,treated items tell me nothing.
Add up all the tracks for a full mix and then let's have a talk...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaidon ➡️
I don't find this a legit test/comparison.
Isolated,treated items tell me nothing.
Add up all the tracks for a full mix and then let's have a talk...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall ➡️
There's always a wall of outboards behind top-mixers that talks about mixing ITB.

Still waiting to see one of them in a room with a laptop, two speakers and a smile on their face...
LOL
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
I guess you get him wrong.
All he is saying you can get a great mix with both domains.

That he prefers Outboard is his personal taste.

Again I think we all know taht we can have great mixes in both domains and I just wanted to post this for FUN and not for pissing contest again.

And he is a member of GS ...... MHB and a very friendly person I thiink he derservs as a big time mixer to be respectet in his opinion.
I don't think he got him wrong. it looks like a simple observation really. Why say all of and yet have all of that analog gear? Really, a simple question.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
So I said I need a break from GS and that is still true but this comment made me curious.

Today I was at a studio of a friend he has a lot of nice Outboard LA3A and LA2A as well as 1176LN Blackface etc.

So I took an Apple Drum Loop and compresed it one with an analouge compressor one with software. I may went a little extreme with both....but software is so bad so it should not sound any equal to yoh?

So if software is so bad it should be easy for you to pick the right sample from the first few bars on.

For me it is very hard to tell which is which.

Andreas
Well that exercise certainly conclusively proves there is no discernible difference between an analouge (sp) compressor and a software one, for sure!!

Yep, for sure all of us nay-sayers can now all ditch the opinions formed by our years of experience with both, in the face of such a blindingly brilliant and original experiment!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
So I said I need a break from GS and that is still true but this comment made me curious.

Today I was at a studio of a friend he has a lot of nice Outboard LA3A and LA2A as well as 1176LN Blackface etc.

So I took an Apple Drum Loop and compresed it one with an analouge compressor one with software. I may went a little extreme with both....but software is so bad so it should not sound any equal to yoh?

So if software is so bad it should be easy for you to pick the right sample from the first few bars on.

For me it is very hard to tell which is which.

Andreas
Well Im not into the electronic drum loop thing, real drums would be much better, first of all I do use the bomb factory on some stuff when i have to, and I use some eq if needed.
If I had to guess which track of the stuff you did was hard ware vs software I would say track 2 had more depth so I would assume its the hardware. I can hear a difference.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy ➡️
I can recall my hardware outboard no problem. Very precisely.

sounds great

worth a few minutes of my time


Ah! of course. I don't want my comments to mean one is better than the other. I'd never question a mans tools of the trade, but I will rationalize mine

Unlike life, it doesn't matter how one arrives, lol.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
For 10k boost on the 2bus, the Hammer blows away the EQ3, but for notching your funky midrange EQ3 beats the Hammer.

I was not implying that the EQ3 was of any particular quality (good or bad). I was simply stating the fact that you can't find a particular hardware EQ that can do exactly what a particular software EQ can in response to what was said about software not being able to do exactly what hardware does.

I think it's ridiculous. It's like saying the NFL is better than baseball...I mean, seriously, when was the last time you saw Adrian Peterson hit a grand slam.

Two different games.

For some reason I don't think will help you understand how lame your "argument" against software is.

All I'm saying is....Who cares. Use whatever tools you want.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
I never said its brilliant anyway the changes are minor in my ears may with different material it would turn out different.
I find it very interesting how pissed some engineers here react on this test.

If it would be so easy to tell which was which why are you so pissed?
The truth is..... it is not easy to tell. Even not if you have a whole mix-down.

Anyway everybody can think what he likes of this little experiment.

For me the question is very secondary if I use hardware or software.
My customer has to be happy in the end of the job and does not care what I used to make him happy.

Again I bet in a bigger double blind trail with many different sources many of the"you only can do it with hardware" engineers would pay dearly.

If someone like to know which was which send me an PM.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
For 10k boost on the 2bus, the Hammer blows away the EQ3, but for notching your funky midrange EQ3 beats the Hammer. Been thinking of getting one of those power cores, but do they work with Pro Tools?
You can get a TDM version of the CL1b
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
wildpark's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
1 sound more round analog 2 more edgy

but there are customers

how after the ones or the other

so its about the taste of them right !
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
My customer has to be happy in the end of the job and does not care what I used to make him happy.
Again I bet in a bigger double blind trail with many different sources many of the"you only can do it with hardware" engineers would pay dearly
dont really get what your point is ... ? if you & your clients are happy with the plugins all is great and you can call yourself a happy man !

if that technology wouldnt be around a lot in here wouldnt even have the possibility to be part of that game !

so alls good ,...

still there are some people who like to turn on things and send stuff throug it and go, whatever it does, i like it !

and that apple loop comparison ? i mean come on, that loop sounds like crap in the first place anyway bring on some SOUNDS !
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpark ➡️
1 sound more round analog 2 more edgy

but there are customers

how after the ones or the other

so its about the taste of them right !
Exactly this is the point you need to have a great mix-down in the end of the job.
Can you tell me why nearly no one is reacting on my files?

Again I guess they do not react on it because it is nearly impossible to tell which one was hardware and which was software.

May the loop is not the best but this is not the point here.
Can you hear it or not?
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
Exactly this is the point you need to have a great mix-down in the end of the job.
Can you tell me why nearly no one is reacting on my files?

Again I guess they do not react on it because it is nearly impossible to tell which one was hardware and which was software.

May the loop is not the best but this is not the point here.
Can you hear it or not?

where is the dry loop?
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
Can you hear it or not?
yes i can hear it heh
the only thing i am hearing is that track 2 is appearing louder. reminds me a lil of the logic compressor. i dont like both of em
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
Exactly this is the point you need to have a great mix-down in the end of the job.
Can you tell me why nearly no one is reacting on my files?

Again I guess they do not react on it because it is nearly impossible to tell which one was hardware and which was software.

May the loop is not the best but this is not the point here.
Can you hear it or not?
What point? Who ever debated with you that analog is better versus ITB mixdown??

Reacting to your files? Heres my reaction, its an uncontrolled ambiguous test. There is no source file. I clearly hear a difference between the two. The 2nd file sounds "louder"; possibly to a more high frequency-rich sound. Conversely the 1st file sounds "rounder". This means nothing in this short context. We don't even know what plugins and gear we're dealing with. You mentioned LA stuff but I'm not going to assume you used it.

Further, to be modest here, maybe we lack the acuity to judge such things, who knows. Maybe thats why that dude is a "pro" and we're not. I don't know. The ACTUAL point here was a simple observation - still begging an answer.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by private_stock ➡️
For some reason I don't think will help you understand how lame your "argument" against software is.
Sorry, I am a little confused. What is my lame argument against software? I was not aware that I had one. I make arguments in favor of the best tool for the job. My experience has led me to believe that for most of the heavy lifting of creating a great sounding guitar based mix that the analog tools are superior for most of the work, but I do not know of a single pieces of analog gear that can do exactly what Massey L2007 can do.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
Exactly this is the point you need to have a great mix-down in the end of the job.
Can you tell me why nearly no one is reacting on my files?

Again I guess they do not react on it because it is nearly impossible to tell which one was hardware and which was software.

May the loop is not the best but this is not the point here.
Can you hear it or not?
The problem is using canned sounds and loops for the test...makes it a waste of time.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle waitress ➡️
The problem is using canned sounds and loops for the test...makes it a waste of time.
This whole thread is a waste of time. he's arguing an argument that doesn't exist here.
Old 28th January 2009
  #88
nek
Gear Maniac
 
nek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
How many people asked here at Gearslutz if it is possible to mix with Plug Ins. I was yesterday at the website of Mr. Michael Brauer so funny his QA:
...that quote seams familiar...


Mr.HOLMES click HERE


...I started that thread/asked that question for a reason.

There is no magic black box or "make it sound good" button.

If somebody wants to do this, they will just have to dedicate their life to it like all of the greats before them (and this, of course, goes for any field of work).


Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
I never said its brilliant anyway the changes are minor in my ears may with different material it would turn out different.
I find it very interesting how pissed some engineers here react on this test.

If it would be so easy to tell which was which why are you so pissed?
The truth is..... it is not easy to tell. Even not if you have a whole mix-down.

Anyway everybody can think what he likes of this little experiment.

For me the question is very secondary if I use hardware or software.
My customer has to be happy in the end of the job and does not care what I used to make him happy.

Again I bet in a bigger double blind trail with many different sources many of the"you only can do it with hardware" engineers would pay dearly.

If someone like to know which was which send me an PM.
Who says I'm pissed?

Fed up maybe with these bogus gs A/B "tests," yes. Nothing personal. Pissed, nah.

I suppose if I call them 'bogus' though you probably want an explanation.

Perhaps a couple examples as to why I think so?

How about the thread where someone who admittedly had never used an 1176 before posted files where he had gainstaged the hardware in a completely ass-tastic fashion, proceeding to make the hardware compressor sound completely unlike what an 1176 in its sweet spot sounds like. Clueless! Then he posted blind comparison files with its UA plugin counterpart, which didn't sound that good. Pretty much like a typical software compressor, pushed a little hard. But not quite as up to the level of assilciousness that he had achieved with the hardware.

You can guess what happens when he posts these wonderful examples of compression here on the forum, right?

The sad thing was that only a few of us were vocal about identifying what was wrong with the files (which I identified correctly, also identifying what was the matter with the hardware). But for what? The vast majority of posters on that thread seemed more interested in regurgitating the same crap that you see on all of these A/B threads, few paid much attention to the fact that due to user error the hardware was not even coming close to doing what it is supposed to, much less what it could optimally do.

The thing with many of these comparisons that seems to be downplayed is that it takes skill to use these hardware boxes just like it does with plugins. There is a learning curve, and most of them have a sweet spot that you achieve through proper gainstaging, familarity with the device and good ears. If you're not setting it right then you bet even the most holy of holy grail pieces of gear will sound like ass, and ass is pretty easy to duplicate or beat with a plugin.

And then there have also been a few comparison threads where I duplicated using the raw files what the person had supposedly done with the same hardware and plugins myself, using the exact settings that he said he used, and the results were not close what he posted! There was one thread I remember where a guy posted the Waves SSL bus comp and the supposed real deal, and while the Waves comp sounded the same, neither the C2 nor the SSL comp I tried sounded remotely like the files he posted, which sounded pretty awful. Lotta gearslutz talking about how they were going to buy the plugin after hearing that test as well. Suckers.

So the bash on your test is not personal, but really- the only meaningful test is as you say, what the client is happy with.

Hardware definitely has had the edge on plugins there, I think, drawing on my own experiences.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
I do not know any serious pro that does not embrace both.
actually I was kinda joking ...i posted saying everyone embraces both...then someone posted right after saying " why don;t we embrace both?"...I guess I thoght it would be funny to pretend to ignore his post as well...silly I guess..
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 15929 views: 1533175
Avatar for Ragan
Ragan 11th January 2019
replies: 63 views: 22374
Avatar for seancostello
seancostello 26th April 2012
replies: 1452 views: 149529
Avatar for buckan
buckan 18th June 2021
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump