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Clearmountain Interview in Sound On Sound
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
I mean really if Bob C were in the room and said "the mic pres in the mini are the best" would you really say "yeah you say that because your wife owns the company"?
Yeah. I would. In a humorous non-confrontational way. And if he doesn't get the joke, f**k him, even if he is a great mixer. I've read the interview, really interesting, especially the bit where he finds out the hard way that home theatre speakers are nothing like the real thing. Seems like a fine fellow, but the Apogee plug (because it's implicitly for the brand rather than the actual, discontinued, product) does seem a bit ho-hum.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark ➡️
Yeah. I would. In a humorous non-confrontational way. And if he doesn't get the joke, f**k him, even if he is a great mixer. I've read the interview, really interesting, especially the bit where he finds out the hard way that home theatre speakers are nothing like the real thing. Seems like a fine fellow, but the Apogee plug (because it's implicitly for the brand rather than the actual, discontinued, product) does seem a bit ho-hum.
Its one thing to say it as a joke but its another to say it with intent and leave it as open question.

But the point is you say it to the guys face or with the guy in the room not just throw something out there with the guy not even around. I mean this goes for anyone not just Bob C. Again its just an opinion.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
So for discussion sakes you've never ever been presented with any endorsements, freebies or free trials on software/plug ins or gear or music that you've come on this forumn and stated that you really liked?

And if you said no i would have to give you doubt because i don't really know you and would have to go on your word. And if you said yes to me it still wouldn't matter because its still just your opinion and it would be up to me tomake a decision based on what i felt about it anyways.

Maybe i just see the world differently than other do.
I DO endorse precisely seven products. And I'm on the relevant websites saying all kind of nice things. But in magazine interviews - i mention NO GEAR at all.. (actually not true - i did mention a plate reverb in one !!). I happen to believe in the products (and so you do you with two of them - seen ya say so )....

I don't really have a problem with BC endorsing Apogee - apart from I know they ain't the best in the business.... His interest in those products makes me go "really? you sure? huh?".
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
I DO endorse precisely seven products. And I'm on the relevant websites saying all kind of nice things. But in magazine interviews - i mention NO GEAR at all.. (actually not true - i did mention a plate reverb in one !!). I happen to believe in the products (and so you do you with two of them - seen ya say so )....

I don't really have a problem with BC endorsing Apogee - apart from I know they ain't the best in the business.... His interest in those products makes me go "really? you sure? huh?".
First of all i meant to write give the benefit of the doubt.

And with all of the members and people who surf this site alone GS is bigger than any magazine. I mean products have been made or broken on this site. Trust me all of the manufacturers have their eyes on this site and carefully read what said about their products. I've had manufactures and gear pimps lambast me in private because of opinions i've given on certain products they are pushing. Lets just say i am on no manufacturers first call list.

And maybe i am wrong on this one but i don't think i have ever seen an Apogee ad with Bob C endorsing something. I know i may be wrong on this one but i can't recall an ad.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
it's unprofessional to give a glowing endorsement of a product when you have a conflict of interest. BC or not. I have Mini MPs.... and they're far from the best, good , but GMLs are better. And yes - I'd argue with the man.....on this and this point alone
What is the conflict of interest?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
First of all i meant to write give the benefit of the doubt.

And with all of the members and people who surf this site alone GS is bigger than any magazine. I mean products have been made or broken on this site. Trust me all of the manufacturers have their eyes on this site and carefully read what said about their products. I've had manufactures and gear pimps lambast me in private because of opinions i've given on certain products they are pushing. Lets just say i am on no manufacturers first call list.

And maybe i am wrong on this one but i don't think i have ever seen an Apogee ad with Bob C endorsing something. I know i may be wrong on this one but i can't recall an ad.
sure. But , and I guess this is only my opinion, there is a big difference between an advert and an interview. For me it's a small (but significant) reducto in credibility in BC. My respect for hi and his achievements is still very high. But not as high as it was a week ago. One for shamelessly plugging a company with a conflict of interest (even if it's not - you just can't say stuff about yer own wifes company). And two for saying something so daft - the MP being the best on the market.... I record muchos orchestral music (generally for soundtrack work, and pretty much only in studios) and I've tried pretty much every product you can imagine. I've also recorded and produced rather more soundtrack score than BC - and what he's said just doesn't hold water in my field. Good products, absolutely. Best in the market?....c'mon.....
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller ➡️
What is the conflict of interest?
He's a man of great influence promoing his own wives company. Giving the impression of independence but where he is not. Half his household income comes from he sale of Apogee gear !!

If he had no stake (whether marital or financial) in Apogee then his comments could be taken at worth. However, like in politics and other business relationships, his personal status with Apogee puts his comments into potential "conflict of interest"... not that they ARE but the possibility is there. In any professional circumstance (and BC is more than man enough to make his own judgement on such matters) it's just not good practice to "big up" something as an apparent independent when you actually have a full set of strings attaching you to something.

A number of years ago I was a BAFTA judge in a soundtrack area. One of the final 6 was done by a close friend of mine. I had to declare myself out. Would it have been any different if it was my wife? So what's the difference when commenting on products out there and proclaiming your wife's products to be the best? It may be true, but your opinion becomes worthless when it cannot be balanced against your personal involvement. Hence conflict.

It was a moderately poor call by BC, but it won't hurt someone of his stature and ability. It's just a little disheartening to see someone you admire do something that one would never do oneself. Kind of shatters the illusion.....
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #38
FAT
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Then we would have to call out & question every GS member that has some special hook up or relationship with a manufacturer that makes gear. By this line of thinking all of their opinions would be in doubt because their motives while honest are tainted because of the relationship to said gear manufacturers. But we know this not to be true don't we?

Sure some manufacturers in certain cases do give out perks or discounts on gear if they think it will help get their products name out there especially if the endorser is someone famous or someone people respect. And in some cases the user of said gear has no problem because they really like what the gear does and feel like giving a positive recommendation is only saying what they really believe. Is that really a conflict of interest? Would it change your view if you knew so?

My original beef is really why write something you wouldn't say to someone's face if they were in the room with you? I mean really if Bob C were in the room and said "the mic pres in the mini are the best" would you really say "yeah you say that because your wife owns the company"? I've always believed there is an internet ettiquette here and while you can freely give your opinion that is the line you don't cross because it comes across as backhanded and petty.

Firstly, neither myself or the op mentioned a conflict of interest - please don't put words into my mouth.

Secondly, all the op in question highlighted, was a relationship between BC and Apogee - that's all. Do you think he was implying a possible conflict of interest? Perhaps he was, so what?

Is it up to the intelligent folk at GS to consider this information, and work out for themselves whether they think there is a conflict of interest. Personally, in this matter, I don't think there is one - but it's useful to have information to allow us to make informed decisions - isn't it?

If you were in the company of BC, I think asking him about his relationship with Apogee would be completely fine. I would guess that Mr Clearmountain would not be offended by assumptions surrounding his positive comments of his wife's company.

I think he'd say you're being a LITTLE too sensitive about protecting his name.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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Inca's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I wish Betty Bennet was my grandma, then she would already know what I want for Christmas and my birthday!
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 15 years
And now we all know why there is war started in the world.dfegadtutt
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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vodka gimli's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There once was a post about BC
Who happened to mention the MP
His name was impugned
Reputation near ruined
"So sorry, Bob"
(signed) The Damn OP.


Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
He's a man of great influence promoing his own wives company. Giving the impression of independence but where he is not. Half his household income comes from he sale of Apogee gear !!

If he had no stake (whether marital or financial) in Apogee then his comments could be taken at worth. However, like in politics and other business relationships, his personal status with Apogee puts his comments into potential "conflict of interest"... not that they ARE but the possibility is there. In any professional circumstance (and BC is more than man enough to make his own judgement on such matters) it's just not good practice to "big up" something as an apparent independent when you actually have a full set of strings attaching you to something.

A number of years ago I was a BAFTA judge in a soundtrack area. One of the final 6 was done by a close friend of mine. I had to declare myself out. Would it have been any different if it was my wife? So what's the difference when commenting on products out there and proclaiming your wife's products to be the best? It may be true, but your opinion becomes worthless when it cannot be balanced against your personal involvement. Hence conflict.

It was a moderately poor call by BC, but it won't hurt someone of his stature and ability. It's just a little disheartening to see someone you admire do something that one would never do oneself. Kind of shatters the illusion.....
But he's not promoting his wife's company. He has no stake in what he is promoting, nor does his wife.

But basically you are saying that anyone who does make a living selling gear (which in this cases is not the case) cannot talk about using that gear unless they aren't successful. Or we're assuming that if someone recommends a piece of gear that they make, then it can ONLY be because they are trying to sell it. I don't think that's very fair even if that actually was the situation at hand (which it isn't ).
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
We come here to get as much info on products as possible I don't think he was punching below the belt and im sure a lot of people like to know that type of information.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #44
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vodka gimli ➡️
All I know is, if Bob Clearmountain uses those pres to record Mick Jagger's vocal, and Charlie Watts' kick, snare and overheads....the MOST important inputs on ANY Stones record...I might be well served in finding a Mini MP for my very own.
I would agree if we were talking about "Honky Tonk Women", "Brown Sugar", or "Sympathy for the Devil". But if Bob's talking about the performance embarassment that is the "Shine a Light" DVD, then I'm not interested.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #45
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china jam's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Someone mentioned that Psycho Monkey was an "ass". I disagree. He comes across as being quite the realistic fella and I think the BC comment resembled the direction in which a real world conversation on this matter would have turned.

On the other hand, if you have a crush on Bob Clearmountain, I can sympathize with you taking offense.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller ➡️
But he's not promoting his wife's company. He has no stake in what he is promoting, nor does his wife.
Not that it matters in this thread, but Bob has done many print ads promoting Apogee with no mention of his connection.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #47
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict ➡️
I would agree if we were talking about "Honky Tonk Women", "Brown Sugar", or "Sympathy for the Devil". But if Bob's talking about the performance embarassment that is the "Shine a Light" DVD, then I'm not interested.
Yes, because "embarrassing performances" deserve Mackies or Behringers. What the HELL was he thinking? Until my best mix sounds anywhere near his quickest rough, I'll defer to his judgment.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #48
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller ➡️
But he's not promoting his wife's company. He has no stake in what he is promoting, nor does his wife.

..I don't think that's very fair even if that actually was the situation at hand (which it isn't ).
So you're saying that actually his wife has nothing to do with Apogee then? I think youøre missing the point.

I read this with great interest, and I think to all of those 'coming to his rescue', he is just sitting there giggling at you, I very much doubt he gives a flying **** what anybody thinks.
That last post from PyschoMonkey was money though.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➡️
So you're saying that actually his wife has nothing to do with Apogee then? I think youøre missing the point.

I read this with great interest, and I think to all of those 'coming to his rescue', he is just sitting there giggling at you, I very much doubt he gives a flying **** what anybody thinks.
That last post from PyschoMonkey was money though.
Why would you think I am saying his wife has nothing to do with Apogee?

I think YOU missed the point.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #50
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Chaellus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i never get why people are always interest in the gear used by some of these and that if they use it they will sound like them?? i mean come on really?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller ➡️
Why would you think I am saying his wife has nothing to do with Apogee?

I think YOU missed the point.
You said that neither he nor his wife has a stake in what he is promoting.
To say the co-founder/owner of apogee has no stake in the promotion of the apogee brand is a bit ridiculous, wouldn't you say?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #52
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaellus ➡️
i never get why people are always interest in the gear used by some of these and that if they use it they will sound like them?? i mean come on really?
Has somebody claimed that? Or is this a yet another new, off-topic tangent?

I have never considered the Mini-MP before, never heard it...if somebody like Clearmountain finds it useful, I find that interesting. I value his opinion, biased or not..he surely can't afford to use "the wife's gear" if it wasn't at least adequate, could he? Would you?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #53
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➡️
You said that neither he nor his wife has a stake in what he is promoting.
To say the co-founder/owner of apogee has no stake in the promotion of the apogee brand is a bit ridiculous, wouldn't you say?
Correct, neither he nor his wife have anything in stake at what he is promoting. He is NOT promoting Apogee. So no I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. I would say it's ridiculous to claim he is promoting the apogee name. At least if one reads the OP. Pay careful attention to what he is promoting. That's the key here.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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Chaellus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
yes a bit off topic i just personally find the talk silly thought is not happening here it follows under the same topic..as to what he uses that gets him going is nothing more than his opinion...his best select gear might not sound great to me but that is it and nothing more...wheater he is trying to pimp Apogee or not doesnt concern me because im not that naive to buy into that...i make my judgement off of working with the gear first hand...if i dont like it i dont...if i do.. i keep it in mind for if i want to purchase it or not later... yea dont get me wrong its nice to know what cetain so and so used or what his methods were for getting there i just never made it proirity to emulate that or try to like others have...in the end nothing but your Talent and experiance can get you "The Sound" and im not talking to any one in specific but in general......carry on..
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme Diesel ➡️
What are you guys debating something so trivial?
Because it gets down to the core of 2 GS eventualities:

1) From now and in the future how we conduct and talk to each other as professionals.

One of the biggest complaints here on GS is that none of the so called "major pros" stay or participate in threads or discussions. After a while being on here you start to understand why. Maybe i am old school but the way i was brought up in the studio there is a code and a respect paid to people who not only know more than you but have been working for a real long time in this business. Also you treat and talk to people how you would like to be treated and that goes for how you deal with people in the studio and outside of it.

These kinds of ethics i believe should carry themselves on a forumn like this as well.

Especially when said person is not here to defend or correct any misgivings if they choose to or not.


2) Is it possible not to be biased in your opinions if you endorse, or know/interact with someone who does or work for one or are a tester/give feedback on products you claim to like or dislike.

This point has been brought up times before & would mean we would have to disqualify the opinions of many people that are respected here or abroad. Lots of people here who've been around a while endorse, test, get free demos, get discounts & the such on certain manufacturers products known or not.

Is this or should it be a conflict of interest? Should everyone have to state if they take in any part of the promotion of any piece of equipment or software? Would your opinions about their opinions change how you see said gear?

This question has come up before and there have been changes made to make things more fair. I personally feel your opinion is your opinion. You either like something or not. I am more of a half glass empty kinda guy than a half glass full.

But if other people disagree i can definitely see their point.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller ➡️
I would say it's ridiculous to claim he is promoting the apogee name.
It's been stated though that he has name-dropped apogee in several different printed interviews, and I think that if his wife has such a large stake in the company, and he is extremely influential himself, then that is a definite issue.
There is no doubt about that.

But just to make clear, I'm not pressing the point because I care one way or the other, I don't! He can say whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure he feels the same way.
I only felt obliged to post because of the rather sycophantic edge to the attack on the OP, who has a fair and valid point in my opinion.

Putting anyone on that high a pedestal is dangerous, look what happened to Jesus, Mohammed and Siddhartha
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #57
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️

One of the biggest complaints here on GS is that none of the so called "major pros" stay or participate in threads or discussions. After a while being on here you start to understand why.
Speaking as someone that understands people a lot better than I understand audio engineering, I would say that the top-tier pros don't stay involved in threads for so long because they have evolved far beyond the common mindset.
I'm sure there is only so much of the typical gear obsession thaey can taike, especially as they have no doubt gone through that phase themselves, and have moved on by.

So a thread that starts out on a more philosophical note attracts them, then it descends into a more mundane sphere of thought and that's their cue to leave.
Fair play. It's not because they are offended, in fact whenever any of the big names appear you have to hitch your trousers up as you pass by the thread in order to avoid the copious amounts of drool being leaked out of so many mouths with their tongues hanging out.

They are just people. Hugely talented and successful people, in a field that everyone here is passionate about sure, but still just people.
They certainly don't need over enthusiastic defenders of their church trying to crucify other board members for daring to suggest that they are in fact *gasp* human

Maybe I overstepped the mark there but I never did respect any kind of pecking order.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #58
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nivek_yoccm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i'm OK, Apogee's OK

potential conflicts of interest--even unintentional--that may exist are always legitimate points of interest and consideration; however much they may threaten a tribe or tribal leader's sense of objectivity

there is no point in extrapolating or creating strawmen

the analogies are obvious



WTB: Apogee Trak2
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #59
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What the hell is that on your finger?!
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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Sk106's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Then we would have to call out & question every GS member that has some special hook up or relationship with a manufacturer that makes gear. By this line of thinking all of their opinions would be in doubt because their motives while honest are tainted because of the relationship to said gear manufacturers.
Very right. In fact we'd have to go waayy further.
- how many of us hasn't a 'passion edorsement' and recommends our favourite brands, models, types, methods, even goes into passionate polemics with people questioning them, all while we HAVE NOT compared side by side and made sure our claims are actually what we so passionately claim?
- how many can honestly say we don't at all choose gear based more on fashionable value?
- based on looks?
- based dominantly on hearsay and/or the common regard of the product?
- based on price level, the conviction that expensive is generally better, without ever veryfying that hands down?
- how many of us has not been sitting with 5 competing ... compressors in mind for purchase in mind, finding ourselves saying "this one clearly is in the lead but I can't help feeling I got such a feel for this other one. It just looks and feels the way I want" and in the end actually getting it, just for the heck of it?

Shooting from the hip, I would say 98% of all gear being used, is regarded, respected, purchased, used and defended vigorously without any such thing as watertight and rigorous examination to back it up with; without the very same backbone that some people now thinks mr Clearmountin is questionable for. This thread displays some cheap sensationalism like "Aha, he's married to the owner of Apogee. Busted!!!". Come on ..

Did someone - thinking this is such a big deal - even care to find out when the 2 of them met? did BC endorse Apogee products before the two of them hooked up? before they met at all perhaps? how long has she worked there? how long has he endorsed Apogee? Did their marrige perhaps come out of them 2 meeting in the Apogee social circuits?

If we haven't cared to find out in the first place, then who's busted, really? so what are people yelling about?
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