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Setting Levels - Glyn Johns
Old 24th January 2009
  #1
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Setting Levels - Glyn Johns

When recording , what level on the mic pres do you set the Overheads so they are balanced on playback ?

With Recorderman people say get the snare hitting the same level in both mics but with Glyn Johns it doesn't work .
Old 24th January 2009
  #2
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🎧 15 years
Is that from listening to it, or looking at your meters?

Using the GlynnJohns/Recorderman setup your snare should be equidistant from both overheads so should be peaking pretty close to equally on both channels with similar amounts of gain.
Unless your room or mics are causing problems?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Is that from listening to it, or looking at your meters?

Using the GlynnJohns/Recorderman setup your snare should be equidistant from both overheads so should be peaking pretty close to equally on both channels with similar amounts of gain.
Unless your room or mics are causing problems?

Looking at meters ,


So you want the snare the same level on the meters for Glyn Johns also ?

The floor tom seems to be too loud and over powering . I got the Overheads 37 inches away from the snare and the mic by the floor tom is 6 inches above it .
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Looking at meters ,
So you want the snare the same level on the meters for Glyn Johns also ?

The floor tom seems to be too loud and over powering . I got the Overheads 37 inches away from the snare and the mic by the floor tom is 6 inches above it .
Recorderman & GlynnJohns is the same thing AFAIK. It's not a perfect set-up for every situation by any means.

I'm a bit confused why you mention the floor tom mic. The technique only refers to overheads and getting a fair balance of the kit while keeping the kick and snare central to your stereo image. You don't need to use the same amount of gain for every mic on your kit.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Recorderman & GlynnJohns is the same thing AFAIK. It's not a perfect set-up for every situation by any means.

I'm a bit confused why you mention the floor tom mic. The technique only refers to overheads and getting a fair balance of the kit while keeping the kick and snare central to your stereo image. You don't need to use the same amount of gain for every mic on your kit.
I was referring to the overhead mic by the floor tom .

Everything sounds good but the floor tom is too much in the balance .
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
I was referring to the overhead mic by the floor tom .

Everything sounds good but the floor tom is too much in the balance .
Oh right, yeah. LOL. You do have a bit of movement in the mics, but it's quite hard to reliably move both. If I'm honest I normally get someone to use a pair of sticks off the snare to distance the overheads and adjust those mics from the kick by eye.
The mics normally end up 1 right over the snare and the other over the drummers right shoulder somewhere.

You can use 2 pieces of string to get the distances precise. I'm sure there is a Youtube vid showing the process. I'll look for it.

Edit: Pretty decent demo: YouTube - Recorderman Overhead Drum Mic Technique
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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Thanks for the link , I'm gonna try moving the mic so its by the drummers shoulder , farther away from the floor tom .
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
FWIW, I've had better results using the over the shoulder technique as opposed to the Glyn Johns method.

C
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorblind ➑️
FWIW, I've had better results using the over the shoulder technique as opposed to the Glyn Johns method.

C
What's the "over the shoulder method"?
The recorderman and Glyn Johns method are the same thing.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
What's the "over the shoulder method"?
The recorderman and Glyn Johns method are the same thing.
Glyn Johns setup is this , Glyn Johns drum mic setup
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
the problem with both techniques is that the kik will be more present on one side as usually one mic will be picking up more bottom, and the other picking up more snap...and people...use a measuring tape or piece of string please...what is the point of trying to get things equidistant if you are eyeballing it? I like recorder man better...they are not the same thing. Cheers.

Nick
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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Ahh I see! Thank You.

I think it's based on the same concept as the "recorderman" (possibly the other way round?) thing though, equidistant mic from snare etc.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick ➑️
the problem with both techniques is that the kik will be more present on one side as usually one mic will be picking up more bottom, and the other picking up more snap...and people...use a measuring tape or piece of string please...what is the point of trying to get things equidistant if you are eyeballing it? I like recorder man better...they are not the same thing. Cheers.

Nick
They are exactly the same concept. Just left handed or right handed.
The whole idea is great if you have 2 mics. If you have more it's not always the best place to start.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Recorderman & GlynnJohns is the same thing AFAIK. It's not a perfect set-up for every situation by any means.

I'm a bit confused why you mention the floor tom mic. The technique only refers to overheads and getting a fair balance of the kit while keeping the kick and snare central to your stereo image. You don't need to use the same amount of gain for every mic on your kit.
I beg to differ.. these are similar (in that they use equidistance from snare) but they are not the same.

Both have a mic over the snare pointing down at it.... but the Glyn Johns method has the second mic near the floor tom, shooting across it aimed at snare... while recorderman has second mic more near the drummers shoulder, pointing at the snare.

Both methods work well, depending on room sound, and playing style... but I do find that the recorderman technique is more effective at getting a better balance with the floor tom(s).. and for me there is less phase issues with kick.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Ahh I see! Thank You.

I think it's based on the same concept as the "recorderman" (possibly the other way round?) thing though, equidistant mic from snare etc.
I'm pretty sure that the Glyn Johns method came first
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordZilla ➑️
I beg to differ.. these are similar (in that they use equidistance from snare) but they are not the same.

Both have a mic over the snare pointing down at it.... but the Glyn Johns method has the second mic near the floor tom, shooting across it aimed at snare... while recorderman has second mic more near the drummers shoulder, pointing at the snare.

Both methods work well, depending on room sound, and playing style... but I do find that the recorderman technique is more effective at getting a better balance with the floor tom(s).. and for me there is less phase issues with kick.
OK. I'm inventing my own Mic'ing technique. You place both mics equidistant from the kik and snare but they are 90 feet away in the lounge stuck up the bass players girlfriends ass.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
They are the same concept
not really...recorder man concerns itself with both mics being equidistant from both the snare and the kik....GJ only concerns itself with the snare.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
OK. I'm inventing my own Mic'ing technique. You place both mics equidistant from the kik and snare but they are 90 feet away in the lounge stuck up the bass players girlfriends ass.

we're just pointing out the differences...no big deal....I don't use either really...I'll use closish tom mics equidistant from the snare to get a stereo kit feel along with XY overs and mono room...because i'm becoming a phase natzi and it's easier to achieve good phase relationships this way....btw why so testy?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick ➑️
we're just pointing out the differences...no big deal....I don't use either really...I'll use closish tom mics equidistant from the snare to get a stereo kit feel along with XY overs and mono room...because i'm becoming a phase natzi and it's easier to achieve good phase relationships this way....btw why so testy?
Because they are the same thing. The mics can end up anywhere, but it's still the same concept. Obviously the mics sound different if you move them around.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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Yes.. peace MarkRB .... I meant no disrespect amigo
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordZilla ➑️
Yes.. peace MarkRB .... I meant no disrespect amigo
God no, me either. I'm just trying to be funny, but it's been a long week
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
God no, me either. I'm just trying to be funny, but it's been a long week
Aye... a long week for me too.... time fer a pint or three

Cheers mate
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Because they are the same thing. The mics can end up anywhere, but it's still the same concept. Obviously the mics sound different if you move them around.

Mark????????WTF??????? THEY ARE NOT THE SAME CONCEPT...are you drunk or something?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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Matti's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
When I do Glyn Johns I set the levels by asking the drummer to hit his / her
toms with equal force to see and thats about it ( I mic snare separately anyways and even if I did not )

Matti
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
OK. I'm inventing my own Mic'ing technique. You place both mics equidistant from the kik and snare but they are 90 feet away in the lounge stuck up the bass players girlfriends ass.

You'll probably get some nice low end that way
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 15 years
Ok , so for those who have used the glyn Johns method before , is it the same as recorderman with regard to setting the snare to hit the same level in both Overhead mics?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick ➑️
Mark????????WTF??????? THEY ARE NOT THE SAME CONCEPT...are you drunk or something?
Well yes I am, but that's by the by surely .

But the whole idea of both is that you keep the kick and snare centre of your overheads.
Anyway, way too many of my posts on one thread saying the same over and over. Nighty night all
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Ok , so for those who have used the glyn Johns method before , is it the same as recorderman with regard to setting the snare to hit the same level in both Overhead mics?
I would say yes.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
Well yes I am, but that's by the by surely .

But the whole idea of both is that you keep the kick and snare centre of your overheads.
Anyway, way too many of my posts on one thread saying the same over and over. Nighty night all

...you're done...go to your bunk.....
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I'd love to know what Glyn John thinks about all this. My understanding is he was just an engineering freak who knew what he wanted to hear and knew how to get it. I mean, I've heard that he regularly used mis-matched mics (just whatever was to hand), and wouldn't necessarily go for the same technique depending on the room. He would just get the phase working and got those glorious drum sounds.

I'm saying this not to be a pedantic prick, but more to point out that it's worth remembering these techniques aren't gospel, especially if the person they're named after didn't use them all the time either. Oh, also, I've heard that when GJ did use this technique on Bonham the R mic sometimes ended up over his right shouler too. Food for thought and all that. But of course, YMMV
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