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POLL: 100% ITB, 100% OTB or in between...pissing contest not wanted. - Gearspace.com
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POLL: 100% ITB, 100% OTB or in between...pissing contest not wanted.
View Poll Results: Current format in your studio...
100% ITB (no tape or significant hardware in front of DAW)
53 Votes - 30.11%
ITB combined with Tape
9 Votes - 5.11%
ITB combined with hardware in front of DAW but no tape
106 Votes - 60.23%
100% OTB (no computer in the control room for recording/editing)
8 Votes - 4.55%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

Old 21st January 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
POLL: Tape/DAW integration...primarily for tracking...how's that?

What category do you fall into at this time.
- 100% ITB (no tape, no significant hardware upfront)
- DAW with tape combined in some recording scenario
- DAW with significant amount of analog hardware up front but no tape
- 100% OTB (no computer for recording/editing in the room)
Old 21st January 2009
  #2
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i suppose i am in between somewhere.

totally dependent on the project.....time, budget, location, etc. with today's pressures of all of the aforementioned...i find that i do what is needed at the time. as an old school analog desk/analog tape guy...i am finding my way in this new era...and getting results i am happy with.

just as an example...5 projects i worked on last year...

1. tracked to digi 002 in the bands rehearsal space....overdubs on an mbox at various locations.....mixed from protools hd on a neotek desk with lots of outboard....any outboard compression printed back to pt tracks....only pt automation used. neotek used just for summing. mix was out of neotek into a stereo buss chain of daking comps/ daking eq/ manley varimu comp to 2 tracks on a 2" 16 track running at 15..no sr....then back through the awesome crane song hedd to a stereo track in protools.

2. tracked full band live to 2" 16 track analog....dumped to pt 96k....very few overdubs into pt (a few vocal fixes, and some guitar overdubs, percussion..)....mixed totally in the box prootools le on my macbook laptop with digi002 feeding a crane song hedd for monitoring the 2tk...only plugs used were some urs eqs for high and lo pass eq, a bit of urs saturation....one instance of tl space on a plate setting, massey tape delay on vocals...stereo buss chain of urs saturation, urs api program eq, stillwell bad buss mojo and event horizon....bounced to disc.

3. tracked to protools mix rig with apogee ad8000's live.....mostly with the preamps on the house's midas desk. mixed on my macbook in cubase often while sitting at the local coffee house enjoying a latte while my studio was booked out to someone else. final mixes printed out of cubase through a crane song hedd via spdif on a mbox...through daking eqs and to 1/4" analog tape.....hopefully will be mastered from tape.

4. tracked to protools hd in a nice studio....api desk...lots of great classic mics....overdubs at my project room to protools le with apogee and crane song a-d's...mostly daking and chandler preamps. mixed (summed ?) out of protools mix rig through apogee ad8000's into my yamaha pm2k desk hitting those big transformers fairly hard....lots of outboard comps, eqs, tape echo, spring verb...etc...mixed out to api 2500 comp and a pair of daking eqs to 1/4" analog...then into crane song hedd back to 2 tracks in protools.

5. year long project with members spread out amoung the united states....(and for one month...in england...) tracked in many locations to many rigs. basic drums and bass live to radar in nashville...nice room.....transfered it all to wav files in protools hd...made a few submixes of drums, etc for the band memners.

band did overdubs on digi 001, digi002, metric halo running on a laptop, and finally vocals and some percussion in my room to protools le. mixed first totally in the box in my protools le rig...basic balances, some automation...efx...etc.... then we booked out 3 days in a nice ssl room and stemmed out mixes to the desk, adding some eq, quad buss...some outboard fx...etc. mixed in stems back to protools hd. additional balancing at my private room of the stems before mastering....final mix of stems out of pt le digi002 via crane song hedd back to 2 tracks on the session in pt.


all of this tells me 2 things:

1. i am fairly happy getting great results in any situation with any gear...as long as the room sounds good, and of course...the music, players and material are great !!

2. i really need to buy a crane song HEDD instead of renting/borrowing it all the time !!!!!


cheers,

jchristopherhughes
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think you need to learn what itb and otb mean - where's the option for daw as tape recorder, mixed and tracked analogue for example? For me itb and otb are reallyrelevsnt only for mixing.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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csiking's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
I think you need to learn what itb and otb mean - where's the option for daw as tape recorder, mixed and tracked analogue for example? For me itb and otb are reallyrelevsnt only for mixing.

Hi,

ITB means 'In the Box' computer based only & OTB means 'Out of the Box' no computer used - tape based or a mix.


I am totally in the box. Unless you are a high end studio with a maintenance crew or you are extremely knowledgeable in aligning tape heads and the rest (along with having a lot of extra time) I don't see an advantage to tape. Sure it has a 'sound' to it but as proven time and time again that 'sound' can happen at the hands of a gifted engineer ITB. Just my 2 cents...hope that isn't starting a pissing contest. dfegad
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ok...semantics aside....i assumed the op's reference to "in between" would be where i find myself these days.

i suppose he did not really clarify if he was asking specifically about MIXING only...or the entire record making process.

i suppose ITB could not truly refer to RECORDING unless your project is based entirely off of samples and soft synths.

i honestly used to be the guy who thought you could NOT make a good record if there was a computer in the room. these days...i find value in many methods of getting the ART on a tangible medium. whatever works. that being said...i still love the sounds that tape and analog gear bring to the table....and yet...i am daily finding new plugins that consistantly blow me away.

whatever works. itb, otb, i/otb, analog, digital....digilogheh



best,

jchristopherhughes
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
No computers, just right.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go to the bathroom.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
100% ITB
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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Mike Brown's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Tracked "how i want it to sound" through a ton of great outboard into the daw.... mixed ITB.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Here for the gear
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I use Radar and a console and I love it.
Nathan Pellerin
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Other than ITB mixing, I don't see many of the other modern options for mixing mentioned or offered. Obvioulsy most of us track into a daw with outboard pres...same goes for me, however, I've created default track count session d/a outs that automatically route the same way every time dependingon pop/r&b/electronic mixes vs. rock mixes and I'm using a Dangerous 2busLT to mix OTB with. Automation, panning and all that is ITB, but externally I'm still hitting an analog compressor lightly before going back into 2 tracks into Nuendo again from some Mytek converters.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You do not really have my category. Some projects 100% OTB, but most are done with an analog console, a 32 channel Pro Tools rig getting used as a tape machine with a few plugs ins used as needed.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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taturana's Avatar
 
12 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
mine is almost all ITB but i use tape as an effect...

does that count?
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Marshman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use tape and hardware both before and after ITB.

Also use tape and OTB mixing to the computer in some situations.

All depends on the session.

mm
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by csiking ➡️
Hi,

ITB means 'In the Box' computer based only & OTB means 'Out of the Box' no computer used - tape based or a mix.


I am totally in the box. Unless you are a high end studio with a maintenance crew or you are extremely knowledgeable in aligning tape heads (along with having a lot of extra time) I don't see an advantage to tape. Sure it has a 'sound' to it but as proven time and time again that 'sound' can happen at the hands of a gifted engineer ITB. Just my 2 cents...hope that isn't starting a pissing contest. dfegad
No it doesn't. OTB is generally referred to when mixing on a console - doesn't refer to what the recording medium is.

Don't mean to be picky on semantics...just that this poll is kind of pointless, most people aren't going to fit into these categories.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
BenJah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Agreed.

I like to record to daw but mix down using a console. I believe this is a very common technique. I don't fit anywhere on this weird poll.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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TornadoTed's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
+1

I use the DAW as a tape recorder with editing. I may use the odd plugin, mainly the UAD Little Labs IBP and EQ low and high pass filters as I don't have them on the console.

I mix everything on a console with ouboard.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I believe the categories are fairly clear.
This is merely a poll to see how many people are using tape in their studios and the percentage of integration (if any) into your setup if you use a DAW.
- Do you have a tape based machine in your studio?
Not interested in the console aspect. All categories are based on "with or without tape" scenarios.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamz ➡️
I believe the categories are fairly clear.
This is merely a poll to see how many people are using tape in their studios and the percentage of integration (if any) into your setup if you use a DAW.
- Do you have a tape based machine in your studio?
Not interested in the console aspect. All categories are based on "with or without tape" scenarios.
Jim, I don't know if you can do this but you should re-title your thread to reflect what you are really asking. Maybe a moderator could do it.
It is an interesting question but, as others have said, the ITB/OTB is not really what you are asking about.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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doorknocker's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
No it doesn't. OTB is generally referred to when mixing on a console - doesn't refer to what the recording medium is.

Don't mean to be picky on semantics...just that this poll is kind of pointless, most people aren't going to fit into these categories.
I think the poll options are pretty clear.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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opentune's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➡️
I think the poll options are pretty clear.
Yeah, i think "ITB combined with hardware in front of DAW but no tape" is what
people miss here.....they just didn´t read carefully i guess.

Anyway, that´s the way i prefer.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Musiclab's Avatar
I use an analog console as a front end to my analog tape deck and also to my DAW. There are many high track count projects where I sync up the DAW to the tape deck.
My console is automated, I use the consoles analog automation rather than gain change ITB. Even if it's a DAW only project I still use the console with automation and lots of analog hardware. So there was NO category for me in the poll
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab ➡️
I use an analog console as a front end to my analog tape deck and also to my DAW. There are many high track count projects where I sync up the DAW to the tape deck.
My console is automated, I use the consoles analog automation rather than gain change ITB. Even if it's a DAW only project I still use the console with automation and lots of analog hardware. So there was NO category for me in the poll
I believe choice #2 would have satisfied that set up. DAW and Tape.

Really not that deep of a question. I recently read a post by Brad McGowan and his video was listed on integrating tape into a DAW based environment.
Look here: YouTube - redwagonstudio's Channel

I found this interesting and was wondering how many fellow gearslutz are using similar techniques and to what extent. Wasn't intended to get caught up in semantics. If you think you're set up does not conform to the 4 basic concepts then please don't feel obligated to respond. My intention was not to keep people awake at night mulling this over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
...just that this poll is kind of pointless, most people aren't going to fit into these categories.
Then move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➡️
I think the poll options are pretty clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune ➡️
Yeah, i think "ITB combined with hardware in front of DAW but no tape" is what
people miss here.....they just didn´t read carefully i guess.
Thank you.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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DigitMus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon ➡️
I use Radar and a console and I love it.
Nathan Pellerin
Ditto

RADAR + Neotek + a boat load of analog outboard. Sounds like Rock'N'Roll.

Scott
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune ➡️
Yeah, i think "ITB combined with hardware in front of DAW but no tape" is what
people miss here.....they just didn´t read carefully i guess.
But when people are just using a computer as tape machine (to DAW) it hasn't been called 'ITB' up to now.
If you are using a console and outboard everything except recording medium, I don't think the 'ITB' description comes close.
OTB, no tape seems clearer and most likely what a majority of people would agree to.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
BenJah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yup.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
But when people are just using a computer as tape machine (to DAW) it hasn't been called 'ITB' up to now.
If you are using a console and outboard everything except recording medium, I don't think the 'ITB' description comes close.
OTB, no tape seems clearer and most likely what a majority of people would agree to.
Hi Chris. Totally off topic for a moment. During (I believe) the 1990 McCartney tour, Linda's Akai S1000 went down in Philadelphia. I received a call to bring mine down to the stadium for her to use. Had the opportunity to sit behind your drums.
Let me see if my memory serves me...black Noble and Cooley drums?
Great drumming
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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JQ127's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just finishing up an album project. Soundtracs Solitaire with an Otari MX-80. It's sounding great and we aren't using a computer for anything. The band's happy they spent the dough on tape instead of 3 extra days for editing and comping tracks.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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The MPCist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My category:

50% ITB 50% OTB Analog console with 32-48 inputs from PT. Outboard used.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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127Riot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I.T.B

All this ITB or OTB takes away from what the main purpose is. Recording great takes/GREAT music. I use vintage consoles as a front end the rest is logic pro 8 and waves plug ins. Of course mic selection is a must. ITB or OTB does not matter as long as you have what counts, THE SOUND YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE. ITB to me is way less head aches and allows me to get my music tracked / mixed and finished. ANALOG SUCKS... JUST KIDDING....
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
ITB all the way for me don't get me wrong 9 years ago i used my G4 as a tape machine had a mackie 32/8/2 with **** loads of outboard gear and loved the resuts ,but as time went by started to demo plugins i started to replace HW for plugins where possible ,untill one day my mate says "dude scap your desk and outboard !!do the lot ITB" i bit the bullet and struggled for some time think i was on logic 6 then and it really wasn't up to the job ,then logic 7 came out which was alot better, the mixes almost sounded on the money.And now i'm running logic8, Apogee Ensemble,Adam S3A's,Waves,Soundtoys,Urs,Altiverb and a **** load more to name but a few and it's all gravy hehheh i still get clients coming in going where is the desk ??? but by the time the session is over and the mix is done very rarely to i get ppl say "hey it would of sounded better mixed on a desk" if you did this poll 15 years ago it would readd the exact opposite but lets face facts how many studios will be still running OTB in another 15 years ????
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