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More products need to be made
View Poll Results: Is there enough new gear being made?
Yes, plenty! I never scour the mags and boards for new gear!
0 Votes - 0%
I read Tape Op mag once, but didn't see anything I wanted.
1 Votes - 3.03%
I don't know the difference between 'need' and 'want'
5 Votes - 15.15%
Are you crazy? I'm a gearslut.
27 Votes - 81.82%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

Old 23rd March 2003
  #1
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
More products need to be made

There are not enough new products being made.

Does anyone disagree.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm sick of the re-issues and knock offs (the ones that claim the glory of the orginal unit, claim it sounds better, then claim that it's not merely a rip off of the original) Vintech, Dan Alex, Brent, GR, etc...

Specifically in the plug in department. It's like when synths came out, everyone tried to make them sound like real instruments, then in the late 70's and 80's. people didn't want their Moog's to sound like strings and started comming up with some really creative stuff.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #3
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
I'm sick of bad sounding inexpensive (and for that matter, expensive) gear marketed mostly with absurd claims made via full page ads in music magazines. We're craftsmen, dammit! We deserve to have decent tools available to us, not tools designed by a marketing department to hit a particular price point.

I have to disagree with e-cue on one point; most of the good sounding new gear I have heard recently could be considered to be knock-off's of older gear, or at least 'inspired by' older equipment. Other than the Crane Song stuff, what new designs for compressors, for instance, have you heard that actually sound as musical as the old gear?
Old 23rd March 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin

I have to disagree with e-cue on one point; most of the good sounding new gear I have heard recently could be considered to be knock-off's of older gear, or at least 'inspired by' older equipment. Other than the Crane Song stuff, what new designs for compressors, for instance, have you heard that actually sound as musical as the old gear?
Well, it's subjective but IMHO the RNC, Avalon 2044, Pendulum 6386, GML8900, Alan Smart, and Summit Audio DCL200 are all musical. Obviously every company that puts a compressor out has to stick with what works, but the point I was trying to make is, wouldn't it be cool if Brent Averill came out with a new pre that exceded your expectations of one of his re fitted API or Neves? The Dave Hill thing you mentioned is a good example. The Manley SLAM! also comes to mind.
Old 23rd March 2003
  #5
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Well, it's subjective but IMHO the RNC, Avalon 2044, Pendulum 6386, GML8900, Alan Smart, and Summit Audio DCL200 are all musical. Obviously every company that puts a compressor out has to stick with what works, but the point I was trying to make is, wouldn't it be cool if Brent Averill came out with a new pre that exceded your expectations of one of his re fitted API or Neves? The Dave Hill thing you mentioned is a good example. The Manley SLAM! also comes to mind.
The RNC does a great job for what it is, and I haven't played with the 2044. But the 6386 was designed as a 670- ish compressor - hence the tube (though Greg makes them without transformers, I believe), The smart is based on the SSL, and the DCL-200 is a 20 year old design, which puts it kind of into the 're-issues and knock offs' category, even though it's ben in production all along. And though I haven't played with the GML, everything I've read about it implies that it is also unlike anything else.

But if Brent came out with something that exceeded my expectations of one of his re-fits, then it would pretty mch need to be modeled on one of them, and hence another knock off.

Oh - the Phoenix Audio DRS-2 goes into the same general category as the Crane Song box, and the slam could be considered either a 'new' design or simply as an all in one box made up of improved versions of the older Manley circuits. It's a fine line, but I certainly don't have a problem with either re-issues and knock offs, as long as they sound great, or new designs like the Massive Passive. As long as they sound great.\

On the other hand, my latest purchase is a pair of broadcast limiters that are at least 50 years old - I should get them back from the tech who did the mods I wanted on Monday or Tuesday. Nothing in my arsenal of either new or vintage compressors has that sound...
Old 23rd March 2003
  #6
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I think the situation is "exciting" but then I am a Gearslut of the first order.
Old 26th March 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
TinderArts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
Other than the Crane Song stuff, what new designs for compressors, for instance, have you heard that actually sound as musical as the old gear?
API 2500thumbsup
Old 26th March 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I thing what's really interesting is that most of the new gear is being made to sound like old gear...because old gear has gotten so expensive and some argue (self-inclusive) that it sounds better...kinda like the "Vintage Guitar" rage is now working its way through audio...and no, I have no vintage audio gear, just like I don't have any "classic vintage" guitars (OK...maybe a few amps, a couple of ancient effects, but that's IT!)

Same concept but consumer-related...some markets (like West Texas) have as many, if not more, oldies/classic stations than new stuff...does that tell us anything?
Old 26th March 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
We have some really cool stuff coming out that is in no way a knock off of anything else. Being able to say that and know it to be true is pretty cool. But for every cool piece of gear that you have a hand in bringing out there are so many hours of just mindnumbingly hard and sometimes boring work that has to be done. It is true that quality materials are available but that is because of cheap foreign labor. Almost all transistors and op amps come from the Orient, as do a good number of transformers, pots, switches, and connectors. We build everything in the US but we source our parts from the company who will give us the best quality and the best overall reliability. Pro audio is honestly a very small market next to broadcast and home use and to be honest for every one DAC1 we sell to a studio user we sell 10 distribution amps to a network. Either companies have a small stable of great products (Cranesong, Lawson, Soundelux, FMR...) or they have a larger, more diverse clientele that may encompass several markets (Benchmark, Manley, Great River, Sony, Neve...) Either style can suceed, but it's all about the market. You have to build what people will buy or you'll be under very quickly, even if it's a genius of a product. Ah, the ramblings of a wannabe engineer/sales guy
Old 26th March 2003
  #10
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by TinderArts
API 2500thumbsup
True - a most excellent compressor!
Old 26th March 2003
  #11
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
We have some really cool stuff coming out that is in no way a knock off of anything else. Being able to say that and know it to be true is pretty cool.
I'm hoping to have a chance to listen to the DAC 1 in my room in the next week or two. Everything I've heard about it makes me want to know hear it.
Old 24th April 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
barforama's Avatar
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
How 'bout...

...Drawmer 1969?
Old 25th April 2003
  #13
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: How 'bout...

Quote:
Originally posted by barforama
...Drawmer 1969?
No.
Old 25th April 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
barforama's Avatar
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
No?????

It's a VERY cool compressor and eventhough it looks like a 1960 it not really a ripoff of anything.
Old 25th April 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by barforama
No?????

It's a VERY cool compressor and eventhough it looks like a 1960 it not really a ripoff of anything.
Well, actually, compressor, mic pre, di, etc... But yeah, a lot of people seem to be split on them. I aired out my thoughts on the unit at this thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...0&pagenumber=2
Old 25th April 2003
  #16
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
"No?????"

That's another one of those reactions that mistakes the 1969 for the compressor of the century. Barforama, have you used this box? It might fit some folks like a glove, but people are really divided on it.

I really wanted to like it and I gave it many chances, but I have to agree: No.
Old 25th April 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
barforama's Avatar
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Yes I have used the box quite a lot. Actually it never just sits in the rack unused.
It's the only compressor I'd use for overheads when tracking drums.
Also a typical go-to-compressor for drum sub....I love it on snare aswell...and the DI is great when tracking bass (that has nothing to do with the compressor, though...)
Bottom line is; I really, really like it. It get more use around here than my STC-8.
Old 25th April 2003
  #18
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I remember liking the DI on the '69 quite a bit. I agree, that's another of its strengths. I may give the '69 another chance someday when I can afford a broader pallette. Out of curiosity, what kind of music are you doing, barf?
Old 25th April 2003
  #19
Lives for gear
 
barforama's Avatar
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Mostly rock-oriented stuff.
Old 25th April 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Who didn't see that comming from a mile away (besides Stevie Wonder)? The cats I know that DO like it do that style of music, usually exclusively.
Old 26th April 2003
  #21
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
I remember liking the DI on the '69 quite a bit.
And again, that's what makes all of this fun; I think that the DI is the least useable function on the 1969 - much less useable than the preamps (which work fine; I replaced the stock chips in my 1960 with Burr Browns, making them, if I recall, pretty much the same as the 1969 preamps)
Old 26th April 2003
  #22
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
And again, that's what makes all of this fun; I think that the DI is the least useable function on the 1969 - much less useable than the preamps (which work fine; I replaced the stock chips in my 1960 with Burr Browns, making them, if I recall, pretty much the same as the 1969 preamps)
You're right, Dave. Mileage varies.

The pre's in the 69 were the most useless feature to me.
Old 26th April 2003
  #23
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Who didn't see that comming from a mile away (besides Stevie Wonder)? The cats I know that DO like it do that style of music, usually exclusively.
Yo cue, tru dat. I was asking cos my experience with the Merc was much different from barfs. Trying to account for it, somehow.
Old 26th April 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
You're right, Dave. Mileage varies.

The pre's in the 69 were the most useless feature to me.
At least I don't feel so all alone...

I REALLY wanted to like the 1969, because i figured it was getting a hi-quality preamp AND compressor for the price of a good compressor.

The problem is, like Jax, I hated the preamp!
Old 26th April 2003
  #25
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
You're right, Dave. Mileage varies.

The pre's in the 69 were the most useless feature to me.
Remember that I'm necessarily saying that they were great or anything, but they were usable. And I didn't find the DI to be useable.
Old 27th April 2003
  #26
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
At that price point (and given the plethora of other options at the same price) merely useable wouldn't cut it with me. At least SOMETHING about the unit would have to be killer...
Old 27th April 2003
  #27
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by littledog
At that price point (and given the plethora of other options at the same price) merely useable wouldn't cut it with me. At least SOMETHING about the unit would have to be killer...
I think that the compressor section is way cool - it's been my default drum buss compressor since it showed up here.

Do a search on the Avalon 737 (I think in this forum - maybe on RAP) - half of the users sais that the EQ sucked and the compressor rocked, while the other half said the opposite. YMMV, I guess...

And just to round things out, the first couple of Alison Krauss records (engineered by Bil Vorndick) used a Drawmer 1960 - Bil said it worked great.
Old 27th April 2003
  #28
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
It's good to know that engineers don't all hear the same things the same way. If we did, there would be even more similarity between same-genre mixes than there already is.

Sometimes I'm worried by what I read on GSz. It comes in flashes: a big run at the KSP8, another for the DAC-1, and yet another for the Transient Designer. Both the Great River NV and the GT Vipre saw huge popularity all over the net. I find it far more educational and interesting to read about people using rigs that were thought to have fallen by the wayside, or never have been given the respect the deserved.

That doesn't mean I don't lust for every piece mentioned above. I too, am a brainwashed forum denizen undert the influence of what is shared by people who ears and opinions I've come to trust. But at least I know it, and I know there are ways to build a raft and float away from the the tribal council.
Old 27th April 2003
  #29
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
If our blowpipes don't get you the piranhas will!

Old 28th April 2003
  #30
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
It's good to know that engineers don't all hear the same things the same way. If we did, there would be even more similarity between same-genre mixes than there already is.

Sometimes I'm worried by what I read on GSz. It comes in flashes: a big run at the KSP8, another for the DAC-1, and yet another for the Transient Designer. Both the Great River NV and the GT Vipre saw huge popularity all over the net. I find it far more educational and interesting to read about people using rigs that were thought to have fallen by the wayside, or never have been given the respect the deserved.

That doesn't mean I don't lust for every piece mentioned above. I too, am a brainwashed forum denizen undert the influence of what is shared by people who ears and opinions I've come to trust. But at least I know it, and I know there are ways to build a raft and float away from the the tribal council.
I feel that SO much, Jax.

There's plenty of gear I use that was never the flavor of the month, yet I like it and use it. And plenty of other stuff that I tried that was highly touted that I just never seemed to be able to get into. Same goes for "consensus" recording techniques that I seem to violate regularly.

Examples (as I bravely bare my soul and hope for mercy from the multitudes):

I've been using my same old D112 on kick, in spite of the fact that everyone tells me that I'd be better off with whatever this month's flavor is. Or at least a D12...

I love my Millenia Media TCL-2 compressor, in spite of the fact that no one else ever seems to even mention it...

I almost always record my kick tracks through an Aphex Expresser...

I DON'T use 421's on Toms. (I like AKG 414's)

I DON'T automatically flip the phase of the under-snare mic... (i actually listen to it and see which way sounds better...)

I record acoustic guitar more often with large diaphragm condensers than small diaphragm ones!

I almost never mic a bass amp - I use the Avalon U5.

I don't think the Vintech 1272 sucks at all...

I have a Royer 121, but only use it on a limited variety of sources... (like trombone, e.g.)

I use plug-ins. And not just the real expensive and DSP intensive ones.

And if all that wasn't bad enough - now for the confessions that will surely get me banned from Gearslutz forever:

I bought a FATSO and RETURNED it because i didn't realy like it that much!!!! (Probably my fault, not Empirical's) I didn't care much for the Masterlink either... (returned that one too)

I have a Cranesong HEDD, and I DON"T use it on everything. I find some mixes sound better without it!!!!

There! I said it! I await the Gearslutz police busting down my front door to forcibly relieve me of my pitiful credentials amidst the derisive laughter of the throngs...
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