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Anyone used/compared Sennheiser 604s to 421s on Toms?
Old 23rd May 2005
  #1
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anyone used/compared Sennheiser 604s to 421s on Toms?

Sennheiser makes these clip on mics for drums. I believe it's the 604 mic. Maybe it's been changed to the 904 mic. Has anyone used these on toms in a studio situation?
If so, how do they compare to 421s on toms?
Old 23rd May 2005
  #2
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vtone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
yes I'd be interested to know a comparison as well-- in particular with larger floor toms.
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Between the two, 421 i belive is ALWAYS a better choice for toms.
604 is incredible on snare though.
On big floor toms its all about large cap condensers.
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #4
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thenewyear's Avatar
the 604s are really good. I've not done a direct comparison with a 421 but I know they don't sound exactly the same.

Bear in mind also that the 421 is a incredibly flexible mic, bass drum, toms, snare, guitar cabs, acoustic bass, vocals and horns all work well with it.

I'm not saying that the 604 isn't flexible but try putting one up on a stand in front a singer & see their reaction...
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 15 years
421's a much better choice! RE 20 or SM7 on Fl Tom thumbsup
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #6
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
EV PL80 on FT. I have no problems with my 604s, my toms sound huge. I have HV3Ds with the DC Input. I like the ATM25 as well. AT AE3000 on snare is my new toy, also on AC or CL GTR. Audix D-Vice is a better system for mounting, I keep a few for specials.
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 15 years
Has anyone compared the 421 vs ATM 25 on toms?
Old 23rd May 2005 | Show parent
  #8
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bigbone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I do use the 604 on the rack toms and floor toms, and you
can get a pretty decent tone from your toms with that mic. thumbsup
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #9
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad
Has anyone compared the 421 vs ATM 25 on toms?
So it looks like (421s aside) we have people using the 604s and ATM25s for toms with good results. Also have the 604 and AE3000 being used on snare.

Typically, I'd use 421s on rack toms and an SM7 or RE20 on the floor tom.
Perhaps I'm getting lazy but clamping on the 604s (if they sound good) eliminates mic stands in the setup.

Is a 604 or AE3000 a better replacememnt for a 57 on snare or just different?
Sometimes I use a 414. I've used the AKG C 480B w/CK61ULS capsule when using blastics as well.
For me a mic that's a little less boxy and a bit brighter than a 57 on a snare would be welcome.
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #10
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad
Has anyone compared the 421 vs ATM 25 on toms?
Yup. The pattern on the 421 is looser then the 604, and the ATM25 is the tightest of the three. As for tone, I've never been picky about tom mics but the 604 is my favorite of those three for rack toms, it doesn't have enough low end on floor toms for my taste so I usually put a 421 or something else there. I can't remember as much about the ATM25 but I remember it having a more focused midrange then the 421 and not as much top as the 604. I used 609's on the last drum tracking session I did and liked those a lot. They're easy to place in tight spots and they had good tone across all the toms, the cymbal leakage sounded ok too which is more then I can say for the standby SM57.
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #11
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
I don't like the 604's on toms. I think they sound small and weak, personally. Also the top is a bit crispy/brittle. tisk tisk. I'd much rather use an ATM25 than those things.
\\
you must be mistaken... the 604s make the toms sound like cannons. they are HUGE compared to the 421's which are brighter and tighter sounding. i have had more problems mixing people who use 421s on toms [could be poor placement, but they tend to pick up more surrounding than the 604's] than i ever had using the 604's.

but its all relative. i dont think i would use the 604 over the 421 on say a jazz player but for rock the 604's roll man.
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
weedmaker's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'll second alphajerk, e604s are more "modern" sounding, just try to use them on stands and not on those clips, I found that bass response is a bit clearer that way, not much, but it is nice to have an option! Great value for money!

MD421 - old favorite, essential for any commercial facility’s microphone locker!

Between two I use e604 for 80% of my tom tracking. 10% goes to MD421 and I would only use those if customer or producer explicitly required it, the remaining 10% is condenser!

YMMV ….
Cheers
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Tousana's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use the 504's which I believe that the only difference is the mounting bracket which the 604 has built in. They are slightly brighter than 421's, but I usually find myself adding a little top end on the 421's that I don't add on the 504's. They are my go to mic for toms when using dynamics. Although many other mics have been used for this task in the past including the rare Yamaha mz series of mics,which were killer on toms but they only made them for a couple of years in the late 80's early 90's. I'm more of a condenser mic person for the jazz thing though,because the pick up is more sensitive.
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Has anyone tried the e904's on toms??
Old 25th May 2005 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 20 years
Another vote for the E604. I've one 421 so I've not tried it on toms but out of curiosity I did a "one two one two" into both. The 421 sounds weaker by a fair margin. I was surprised actually.

Just my 2 cents...
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Personally, I prefer the 604's on most toms. They actually actually sound a little bigger and brighter to me. Possibly because the 421 accentuates the midrange more. Either way, I would have no problem getting a good tom sound out of either. In the end though, I greatly prefer my old EV 408's out of any of them. I just end up using less EQ when I use the 408's, and the other bleed always has a good natural sound to me. Of course I have my own style and the 408's seem to fit that style. For someone else, they may not like it at all:D
Old 26th May 2005 | Show parent
  #17
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just did a session with 604s on a Brady snare drum(57 on bottom) and Toms 1 & 2.
421 on the floor.
I'm sold on the 604s. It really wouldn't matter whether they were all 421s or not. Tiny, out of the way, inexpensive and sound great.
This doesn't hurt either...
4038s as overheads, Royer 121 on hat, Beta 52 and D112 on kick, Tele USA 251 and Mag mic as room mics.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 20 years
Has anyone ever tried using a 604 on sax or trumpet.? If it could be clipped onto the instrument it would solve a live performance problem for me. Mind you, it looks like the clip has been designed for drums.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
Has anyone ever tried using a 604 on sax or trumpet.? If it could be clipped onto the instrument it would solve a live performance problem for me. Mind you, it looks like the clip has been designed for drums.
I've tried that, it doesn't fit. At all.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #20
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Jamz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the comments. I decided to buy a set of three 604s. Workable on rack toms (within a 421/57 sound concept) and no mic stands. Watching these tiny little guys bounce around on the cheap looking plastic mount concerned me. However, I didn't notice any effect on the sound. As 7rojo7 mentioned, the Audix D-Vice looks like a better mounting solution.

Just one more "next day" observation on these little 604 mics.
I believe the 421 is a more flexible mic and a mic closet should have a few included. If you have enough 421s you don't need the 604s for toms. I don't know about the 604s on other sources. If you don't have 421s or the budget to purchase a few then the 604s are a doable stand in. It worked fine on the top snare as well. A 421 was on the floor tom. I would probably continue to use an SM7, 421, or re20 on the floor tom.
For me the 604s work fine within the 421 or 57 tom micing concept. Not even a conversation when discussing other mics for toms i.e. 87s, 47s, 414s, e22s, etc.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #21
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jumpnyc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey - I just played a gig at a club where the soundman (also a drummer) used 604's on Tom's and a D6 on the kick. He said he tuned the house drums everynight - Holy Poop - best sound ever. I was blown away. I think it was a combination of the good drummer - great tuning - and the mics. All necessary ingredients. But thumbsup for the 604's. I'm gonna git me some, too.
Old 27th May 2005 | Show parent
  #22
84K
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I agree with Jamz... the 604 is a great top of the rack tom mic and it does well on the snare top too. For under mic'ing, I would favor the 421 greatly. I think everyone should owns 604s, given their price. It is a deal.
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Very differing opinions on this one. I tried the 604's on toms and found them small sounding, and not punchy. Replaced them with D series Audix. Which I then replaced with EV 408b's.

I do use the Sennheiser E602 on kick, though. Sold the ATM25.


468s just like them:
Old 28th May 2005
  #24
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steins's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamz
Sennheiser makes these clip on mics for drums. I believe it's the 604 mic. Maybe it's been changed to the 904 mic. Has anyone used these on toms in a studio situation?
If so, how do they compare to 421s on toms?
I use both in the studio. It's a 50/50 situation. Depends on what sound I'm looking for, where the drums are placed in the studio ++++. I find it easy to get a good sound out of the 604 by just clipping them on. The 421 needs more attention to placement, but when the are in the right spot on the right tom in a nice room, they can be much better than the 604's.

The 604 is a very good mic for the price! Someone in this thread mentioned using it on snare. I'm gonna try that on our next project.

Stein Tore
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #25
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Jim vanBergen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I bought my 504s after discussing the element in detail with the guys at Sennheiser, who said it was the same element concept as the 421 with a hotter output and no EQ (V or M switch) from the 421. I did not believe him, but I tried the mics on trumpet and bone on my next jazz session and after being impressed with the sound, used them on toms. I bought three 604s so now I have six. I much prefer them over 421s, 57s, Audix D2s, and Beta98's. Whether on the spring clip or a stand, I have never had a complaint from a client. I always have at least three with me in my mic kit no matter where I go.
Cheers-
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #26
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🎧 20 years
Wouldn't it be great if you could replace the clip of the 604 with an instrument clip (ie brass).
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
God I hate 604's on toms. They are thin and annoying.
Not that I like 421's either, but they're better than 604's IMO.
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #28
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
604's are anything but THIN on toms.... most times i have to move them around to KEEP them from being TOO BIG. an SM57 on toms is thin and annoying. 604's are defintely not that.
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #29
84K
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84K's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winey
God I hate 604's on toms. They are thin and annoying.
Not that I like 421's either, but they're better than 604's IMO.

What do you like on toms?
Old 28th May 2005 | Show parent
  #30
84K
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
604's are anything but THIN on toms.... most times i have to move them around to KEEP them from being TOO BIG. an SM57 on toms is thin and annoying. 604's are defintely not that.
thumbsup thumbsup
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