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Motu 828 Mk3, Problem
Old 23rd September 2008
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Motu 828 Mk3, Problem

Hi!

My first post =)
Hope this place will enrich my life a little bit

Well anyways, I seem to got a problem with my 828 Mk3...
Sometimes when i'm mixing or whathever, I get some kind of high pitched noise or squeak... I'ts really anoying... It seems to happen when i do something, like closing or opening a effect or a vst-instrument or something..
Seems to happen easier when i'm in a big project which obviously demands more cpu... maybe its when the cpu peaks?
But then again, it sometimes occurs in a very small project too...

Setting the buffer higher seems to help. But not completly i think...


I've heard there might be some problem with some Firewire-module-thing and the 828 Mk3? I might be wrong though...


Some one else got the same problem?

I run on a Dell Inspiron 6400 Laptop btw.
Maybe Dell's the source of evil? :P
Old 23rd September 2008
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
My 828 mk3 would lock up during a session with a high pitch squeal. I would have to reboot it and allow Logic to recognize it again. Once all the samples loaded back up everything would be fine until it happened again (which seemed totally random).

Luckily, the latest firmware update seems to have fixed the issue for me. I think the update is 1.06 (not sure). You can get it from MOTU's website. I think you may have to register your product first. You can check your firmware version by watching the display while it is powering on. If it is older than 3 months then you should probably grab the new firmware.
Old 23rd September 2008 | Show parent
  #3
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Make sure your DELL has a FW port with a Texas Instrument chipset on it. If not , youll want to add a FW card with that.
Old 23rd September 2008 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tms8707056 ➑️
My 828 mk3 would lock up during a session with a high pitch squeal. I would have to reboot it and allow Logic to recognize it again. Once all the samples loaded back up everything would be fine until it happened again (which seemed totally random).

Luckily, the latest firmware update seems to have fixed the issue for me. I think the update is 1.06 (not sure). You can get it from MOTU's website. I think you may have to register your product first. You can check your firmware version by watching the display while it is powering on. If it is older than 3 months then you should probably grab the new firmware.
Yeah that's the way it was for me to but it doesn't freeze like that anymore... It just squeals and freezes for a second or two and then it works again.
I did get that update a while a go but it didn't fix it =/

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit ➑️
Make sure your DELL has a FW port with a Texas Instrument chipset on it. If not , youll want to add a FW card with that.
Okey, i'll check that! Thanks!
Is the Texas Instrument chipset the only one that works with the 828 mk3? and/or does that apply to all firewire-interfaces?
Old 23rd September 2008 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Can't seem to find what FW-chipset my dell is using...
though, while searching various forums I found out that a expresscard-Firewire could be the soloution? I found a couple of cards with the TI-Chipset on the web.

Just wanted to see if anyone succesfully running a 828 through a expresscard-Firewire-thingy?
Old 23rd September 2008 | Show parent
  #6
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TheRealRoach's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I posted the following fix on motunation.com:

[Edit: To anyone that tries this, please report back with your findings!]

In the post XP SP1 world, all went to sh*t for anyone trying to daisy chain multiple MOTU FireWire [FW] devices, like myself, who was content using daisy-chained first-generation MOTU 896s on my old P4 system. The symptoms of misbehaving MOTU devices - that were daisy-chained, as is one of the main selling features of the MOTU FW units 896, 828, ultralite, traveller - were the unpredictable and ominous blinking sample rate LEDs of the your MOTU devices later on in the chain that would refuse to sync, random clicks and pops, buzzes and chirps at random frequencies, drop-outs, and all-out failures to load the MOTU FW audio drivers at all. I searched the forums high and low and eventually concocted a recipe that has worked for me, and i figured that i would share it with anyone else who has come up dry in finding a solution [and the disclaimer is that there will be lots of instructions for manual registry and driver modifications... be careful and take your time because the accidental removal of the wrong files would cause some problems.. and please, read through the whole post before attempting this as some preparation is required]:

I'm currently running from my Lacie FW800 PCI card (Texas Instruments Chipset) -> 896#1 -> (daisy chain) 896#2.
- Current driver is 3.6.7.0 (3.6.8 wouldn't even come close to working, and was the newest driver at the time this was written), running at 64 samples. (2.404ms in, 1.542 out)
- Cubase 4.5.1
- 2xMOTU 896s first generation.
- Quad 3.0ghz machine based on an nvidia MB.

There are TWO main system modifications as follow:

- [1] in Device Manager, I "updated" (more like "back-dated") Texas Instruments IEEE 1394 Host Controller driver to SP1 version by manually changing "1394bus.sys", and "ohci1394.sys" to their SP1 counterparts. In Device Manager -> Properties -> Driver [tab] -> "Driver Details",
C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\1394bus.sys should have file version: "5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)". C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\ohci1394.sys should have file version: "5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)" as well, if the file replacement worked properly. Note the "sp1" located within that file version.

- The method of replacing them was as follows:
- disconnect all external FW devices
- locate the "OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller" (or similar) under "IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers" in Device manager. Right Click and uninstall.
- Next, Locate "1394bus.sys", and "ohci1394.sys" in C:\Windows\system32\drivers, and shift+del
- [we've effectively killed FW on the system by this point.]
- reboot system, at startup, windows will have "found new hardware." When prompted to install drivers, follow the options that will allow you to pick your own via "Have Disk..." option. Direct it to the "ohci1394.sys" and/or "1394bus.sys" versions from SP1 (I found mine from someone how posted them up on gearslutz, but you can easily find them within the SP1.cab file if you have access to any Windows XP SP1 system. Even if you had since updated to SP2 and SP3, you should still be able to find an SP1.cab lurking in your file system).
- This phase is complete. Use methods in [1] to verify that SP1 versions installed correctly.

- [2] The second main part is hacking the registry:
- Reboot system
- turn on 896s (in my case, drivers 3.6.7.0 were already installed).
- [the next portion is a well known sequence of steps as published on the RME site, to manually step up the FW bus speed to SP1 levels]
- locate each 896 within the registry:

To locate the [Motu] FireWire controller information, follow these steps:
*1. Open Device Manager. To do this, right-click My Computer on the Start menu, click Manage, and then click Device Manager under System Tools. You can also click Properties under My Computer, and then click Device Manager on the Hardware tab.
2. Locate your FireWire controller in the IEEE 1934 Bus host controllers section.
3. Right-click the FireWire controller entry, click Properties, and then click the Details tab.
4. Click Device Instance Id. You see a string of letters and numbers that is similar to the following: *
PCI\VEN_104C&DEV_8020&SUBSYS_00D81028&REV_00\4&19FD8D60&0&60F0
The information between the two slash marks (\) is the "1394_hc_hw_id". "VEN_104C&DEV_8020&SUBSYS_00D81028&REV_00" is the hardware ID in this example. The information that follows the second slash mark (\) is the "1394_instance_id". "4&19FD8D60&0&60F0" is the instance ID in this example.

*1. Locate and then click the following registry subkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\
CurrentControlSet\Enum\PCI\1394_hc_hw_id\1394_instance_id\Device Parameters
*2. If the SidSpeed value does not exist in the right pane after you click the Device Parameters subkey in step 2, create it. To do this, point to New on the Edit menu, click DWORD Value, type SidSpeed, and then press ENTER. *
*3. Right-click SidSpeed, and then click Modify. *
*4. In the Value data box, type one of the values that are shown in the following table, and then click OK.Value Speed *
0 S100 speed
1 S200 speed
2 S400 speed (default value)
3 S400/S800 speed (Windows XP Service Pack 1 [SP1] value)
Note If you try to use a value that is larger than 3, SidSpeed will use a value of 0 (S100 speed).
*5. Quit Registry Editor.*
Reboot.

DONE.

It's worth noting that before completing either modification, the 896s will hardly work together. Symptoms included squealing (even after computer system was powered off), inability of DAW to load drivers (showing garbled text along with "unknown error occurred ... motu drivers, error #25"), 896s not syncing. Attempt for sync via wordclock is also FUTILE!

When ONLY the first step is completed (re installing of windows SP1 drivers "ohci1394.sys" and "1394bus.sys") the squealing stopped, I WAS able to load the MOTU FW audio drivers into the host DAW, however the second motu would continually fall out of sync... this being characterized by the flashing sample rate LED on 896#2. Playback and recording was continually stuttered, dropped out and unusable. The second Motu would not hold sync whether or not the DAW was loaded (i.e., even on windows idle)

When ONLY the second step is completed (i.e. hacking the registry to manually input SidSpeed value 3) the squealing stopped, I WAS able to load the MOTU FW audio drivers into the host DAW, I was able to hear playback, but it suffered from momentary interruptions in the form of clicks, snaps, buzzes, and dropouts. BUT nonetheless, playback/recording would hold together stable for about a minute at a time.

(Another incidental modification - which may or may not have had an effect - was disabling the motherboards onboard FW connection.)

It was only when BOTH seperate modifications were performed that the system performed flawlessly.

SO, hopefully it stays that way but I will notify you if anything changes.

I was testing the system all afternoon, recording 16 tracks of audio into a session running lots of plugins and a high track count of about 70 tracks, with the use of external digitally sync'd effects in Cubase 4. I was trying to do all sorts of things that would mess up playback/sync/record like minimizing Cubase 4, opening explorer and browsing through active file folders, and the thing kept locked tight. During playback I also turned on an off other units that sync to the MOTUs via AES/EBU in an attempt to budge the sync, but it still held.

I'll be sure to report back any further findings, or problems in what I have mentioned here. Likewise, if anyone else can confirm or deny the success of these steps I would be most interested in fine-tuning this process to making the MOTUs a useable piece of gear again.
Old 23rd September 2008 | Show parent
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I dont feel like reinstalling windows and dealing with all the problems that come with that... It takes alot of time! And it's sooooo booring...

So i ordered a SDM ExpressCard Firewire 2 6-pin. It had the Texas Instrument-chipset and two Firewire 400 ports. costed about $40... If it helps, money well spent!

I saw someone in another forum who had the same problems and it fixed it with a ExpressCard.

I'll report back when i get it
Hopefully around thursday...
Old 30th September 2008 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Got the Expresscard last friday and have been testing it, quite a lot... Doesn't work at all! So ****ing anoying...
Doesn't seem to be working with my external harddrive either... What might be the problem? XP?

Xp finds it and installs it and there doesn't seem to be any problem there.. I can find it in the device manager and so on...

Another strange thing is that when i boot up the computer with the card inserted it freezes just as the windows logo turns up and should be starting to load...

hmmmmmm
Old 30th September 2008 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Have you checked in the Resources tab of the card properties in device manager to see if there are any Memory Range or IRQ conflicts?


Just to add to the original thread...

I also have an 828mk3 and had similar pops / squeaks etc unless I increased the buffers to 256 or 512 (even when just running windows audio, not a DAW). I recently bought a PCIe firewire card with TI chipset (was using the onboard before) and now the Motu seems happy with the buffers at 96, so it definitely helps running on a dedicated card.

I'm running Vista rather than XP tho, so can't comment on the other fixes posted here.
Old 30th September 2008 | Show parent
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ving ➑️
Have you checked in the Resources tab of the card properties in device manager to see if there are any Memory Range or IRQ conflicts?


Just to add to the original thread...

I also have an 828mk3 and had similar pops / squeaks etc unless I increased the buffers to 256 or 512 (even when just running windows audio, not a DAW). I recently bought a PCIe firewire card with TI chipset (was using the onboard before) and now the Motu seems happy with the buffers at 96, so it definitely helps running on a dedicated card.

I'm running Vista rather than XP tho, so can't comment on the other fixes posted here.
I've checked that, and there's no conflict or anything like that... annoying..

Okey.. Well, mine doesn't even work "outside" a DAW....
You're runnig a stationary computer huh?

Kinda tired of messing with this... Thinking of selling it to someone who might have a working TI-firewirecard and crossing the border to PT-land and bying myself a Mbox 2 Pro...

Am i stupid?
Old 1st October 2008 | Show parent
  #11
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TheRealRoach's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
.... try post #6.

It doesn't require the re-installation of XP as you alluded to. A fellow GS was kind enough to post up the required XP SP1 firewire files:

http://www.luctellier.com/files/firewire_sp1.zip
Old 2nd October 2008 | Show parent
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
well, what do you know, it worked!
Changed the firewire sys-files to sp1 and so far it works excellent!

Thanks guys!
Old 2nd October 2008 | Show parent
  #13
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TheRealRoach's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTheGuitar ➑️
well, what do you know, it worked!
Changed the firewire sys-files to sp1 and so far it works excellent!

Thanks guys!
Great! Microsoft really broke things for firewire users with the introduction of SP2, and I was quite surprised that the same problem is still around in SP3! As much flack as MOTU gets, I believe the problem lies in the SP2/SP3 updates. I'm not sure how this all affects Vista though as I'm running an XP Pro SP3 system.

MOTU should still place this fix on their website as there are multiple posts every week on the motu forums about people having problems with squeals.
Old 2nd October 2008 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealRoach ➑️
Great! Microsoft really broke things for firewire users with the introduction of SP2, and I was quite surprised that the same problem is still around in SP3! As much flack as MOTU gets, I believe the problem lies in the SP2/SP3 updates. I'm not sure how this all affects Vista though as I'm running an XP Pro SP3 system.

MOTU should still place this fix on their website as there are multiple posts every week on the motu forums about people having problems with squeals.
Yeah they've really got something wrong in sp2 and sp3! I dont know about vista either, but what i've heard it isn't any better...
MOTU really should put that on ther site cus this seems to be quite a big problem for lots of people. Somebody should mail them about it.
Somewhat strange they haven't noticed yet...

Seems to be working fine with my expresscard firewire-controller now. runs <10 ms latency now on my quite slow computer and it seems to work just fine.
although, I got a squeak earlier today. And that was when running very low latency, and I haven't got anyone after that... So I guess thats acceptable. =)
Old 3rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Great news folks! Windows 7 is the solution.

I had the same high pitched squel issues with my motu 828 mk3 + brand new dell studio laptop, vista ultimate, firewire chipset/driver ricoh even after installing the latest motu driver 3.6.8.1414 (as of last week).

I was about to buy a firewire card with TI Chipset..............Well, I decided instead to install windows 7 release candidate (which has automatic win xp mode). I uninstalled motu vista drivers, reinstalled motu win xp drivers, and have had no problems, no squels, no drop outs.............and I've tested by recording(using reaper) multiple tracks, opening windows media player, double clicking a gizzilion times, opening ie8, and adding arming/unarming tracks, changings inputs, all while recording........and nada, no squeals or drops outs!!!!

now, the only downside is that windows 7 is still release candidate which expires in a year...........so I will have to purchase the lisc once it is released, and possiblely do a clean install..........but I was most likely gonna do so anyways.

I vouche for windows 7, but please, make sure upgrading is what you want to do because I suspect it worked for me but very well could not work for you depending on your computer, I'd hate to recomend installing and you loosing your files; also I upgraded, i did not do a clean install, when i get the released version i plan on doing a clean install-which will be easy for me because i'm only running reaper, and save all my files on external HD, I will only have to reinstall reaper and motu drivers.


Peace
Old 7th February 2010 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hello and thanks for the above information. Its hard to find any solutions to the strange things that MOTUs do with PCs (less so on my MAC i have found).
I tried following your instructions, but the .sys files always seem to revert straight back to the SP3 versions as soon as I restart. Do you know how to stop it doing this?
I also tried the instructions at:

documents:1394fix [3DMCWiKi]

which are very similar (only .inf files are provided when you reinstall the drivers), but even when completing that process, my drivers were still the damned 5.1.2600.5512 versions.

Im losing hair and sleep, can you help?

thanks

drzygote
Old 6th March 2010 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drzygote ➑️
Hello and thanks for the above information. Its hard to find any solutions to the strange things that MOTUs do with PCs (less so on my MAC i have found).
I tried following your instructions, but the .sys files always seem to revert straight back to the SP3 versions as soon as I restart. Do you know how to stop it doing this?
I also tried the instructions at:

documents:1394fix [3DMCWiKi]

which are very similar (only .inf files are provided when you reinstall the drivers), but even when completing that process, my drivers were still the damned 5.1.2600.5512 versions.

Im losing hair and sleep, can you help?

thanks

drzygote
Check this link mate. RME Tech Info - FireWire 800 under Windows XP SP2 It did it for me. Make shure you follow all steps. You'd probably look into the renaming of the Cab files in the Cache. I renamed both SP2 and SP3, then renamed them back again as soon as the whole process was finished.
Good luck.
Old 7th March 2010 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
thanks, i will give this a try and report back
peace
Old 2nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #19
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
The Real Roach is my new hero. I've been having problems with high pitched squeals for years. I used to disable my internet connection, and for some reason, that would usually do the trick (seems like some sort of conflict, even though there were no conflicts listed in my Device Manager). Since updating to SP3 this workaround hasn't worked. Not to mention my workstation is now networked out the wazoo to RAID arrays and other machines, so disabling network connections is no longer an option.

But disabling the newer Firewire drivers stopped the squealing. My nerves and my ears thank you!!! And adding the SidSpeed increased my speeds, so bonus!

People trying this fix may also wish to note:

1. You don't have to reboot your machine to reinstall your hardware once you've removed the device from your device manager and deleted the drivers (you can just use "add hardware" from the control panel).

2. If XP "auto-installing" the newest driver is driving you NUTS (like it was me), find the folder called "Driver Cache" in your windows folder and rename it while you go through this process (you can and should name it back later). This is where Windows automatically looks for drivers. If you rename the folder it won't know where to look and will thus ask you where you want to install the driver from and you can select your new (old) drivers.

Rock.
Old 1st August 2010
  #20
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Squeaky MOTU

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTheGuitar ➑️
Hi!

My first post =)
Hope this place will enrich my life a little bit

Well anyways, I seem to got a problem with my 828 Mk3...
Sometimes when i'm mixing or whathever, I get some kind of high pitched noise or squeak... I'ts really anoying... It seems to happen when i do something, like closing or opening a effect or a vst-instrument or something..
Seems to happen easier when i'm in a big project which obviously demands more cpu... maybe its when the cpu peaks?
But then again, it sometimes occurs in a very small project too...

Setting the buffer higher seems to help. But not completly i think...


I've heard there might be some problem with some Firewire-module-thing and the 828 Mk3? I might be wrong though...


Some one else got the same problem?

I run on a Dell Inspiron 6400 Laptop btw.
Maybe Dell's the source of evil? :P
Problem: Noise/lag.

The Story: I've had that problem and I've had a similar problem on another machine. Both were PC machines made up of various random parts so the best I can tell you is that one was an AthlonXP 2000+ and the other an Athlon64 3500+ - both had 1GB RAM and I was using the same FireWire PCI-adapter card in both machine (literally took it out of one and put it in the other)

I had the crackling problem combined with a sudden lack or response from the system, also on the second machine lights were flashing randomly on the MOTU as well! Needless to say this was unacceptable since it happened every 20 seconds and stalled any kind of recording or playback for a few seconds....what it turned out to be was in one case a printer plugged into a USB port on the FireWire card (two FireWire ports and 3 USB ports on it) and the second system I had plugged in a CF/SD card reader into the USB. After unplugging the printer/card-reader the problem was completely gone!

Solution: unplug USB devices. Try one at a time and see which is causing the problem. Not sure if this a driver issue or a system design flaw on MOTU's part but it seems that certain USB devices like to disrupt the FireWire.

Hope that helps.
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