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guitar 101 "missing something?"
Old 4th March 2003
  #1
Gear Nut
 
logic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
guitar 101 "missing something?"

It seems every time I mic a guitar the recording sounds distant . The amp sounds awesome but I can't get the sound to
translate well when recording. The room shouldn't be a factor "loud amp + dynamic mic". I don't want to boost the mid on the amp.........

Amp: modded Marshall with 1960A cab
Signal: 57>Focousrite ISA110>160XT.
Cab in isolated small closet.
Old 4th March 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Why are you compressing the signal? A distorted guitar in a small iso is going to be naturally very compressed anyway. You are more llikely to end up with a small sound; you can really easily kill the transients w/ too much compression while tracking.
Old 4th March 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mind if I ask you a simple question?

What exactly is it missing?
Old 4th March 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
bassmac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you're talking distorted guitar - too much distortion can take away the bite - making it washed out and distant sounding.
Old 4th March 2003
  #5
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
And where is the mic placed in relation to the speaker?
Old 4th March 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You know, I'm sure this is just me being a doofus, but I isolate guitar amps in a full size room. I've rarely been happy with using a small iso, cause then I usually end up having to use a pad, and I cannot get a "room" sound.
Old 4th March 2003
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That's kinda where I'm headed.

Close micing in a dead Iso Isn't what I would call a "natural" setting for electric guitar. If done incorrectly, it can kill your tone. I usually do a combination of Iso cabs and room cabs depending on the situation. This, of course, requires a decent sounding room as well.

If we can figure out what he feels he's missing, maybe we can figure out what to repair.
Old 5th March 2003
  #8
Gear Nut
 
logic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
****

OK,OK You guys are cool thanks for the replies.....Painfully obvious "yes a small closet will compress the vary loud distorted signal " I just recently got my really cool 160XT and wanted to use it "bad bad bad "

The issue is the guitar doesn't have that in your face up front sound you get with a guitar preamp straight in to the console. Double tracking helps but not enough........aaahhhaahhhahha!!

The guitar has a distant card board sound.??

I have tried various mic placement around the cone and off center. I even tried a condenser mic.

Thanks.
Old 5th March 2003
  #9
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Re: ****

OK, next question: If you're sitting on the floor facing the amp from about 1 foot away, does it have the sound that you want to get on tape? (You may have to use earplugs to answer this question, if you're playing it as loud as you imply). If the sound isn't coming out of the speakers, then there's no way that you can get it to tape.

Next question - how loud is it? Can you get the sound you want from the amp at a lower level? (recording a distorted guitar track through a Fender Deluxe the other day, I really didn't get a sound that worked until the guitar player turned the amp from 8 down to 3 - then it was happenning...).

Last question - what effects, stomp boxes or other stuff are you using between the amp and the guitar, as well as between the mic and your monitors?
Old 5th March 2003
  #10
Gear Nut
 
logic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
still ..........

The thing is that the guitar sounds good right in front of, and different but good behind the cab. I don't use fx between the guitar and amp or in the console. I was just wondering if some one knew any tricks ect...This shouldn't be this hard?
I would like to send an mp3 so every one could hear it ??
Old 5th March 2003
  #11
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Re: still ..........

Quote:
Originally posted by logic
I was just wondering if some one knew any tricks ect...This shouldn't be this hard?
I would like to send an mp3 so every one could hear it ??
It shouldn't be so hard - I tend to use SM57's or Sennheiser 421's stuck pretty much into a speaker, somewhere between the cone and the outer edge. I've got friends who do the same thing with a Royer, and others who use U87's. All of these mics work just fine.

And someone else may be able to use MP3's; with a dial up connection like I have, it's not worth the effort for me. In fact, my internet computer doesn't have speakers or an audio out.
Old 5th March 2003
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
The thing is that the guitar sounds good right in front of,
Excellent, you are 90% of the way there.

Quote:
I don't use fx between the guitar and amp or in the console.
Also good, this eliminates variables.

Quote:
I was just wondering if some one knew any tricks ect...This shouldn't be this hard?
No tricks, just some basics. If you are close micing, make sure you try changing the angle of the mic. A few degress can change the sound dramatically, especially with a 57. The sound of a 57 changes dramatically off axis.

This goes for distance as well, and inch or two can make all the difference in the world. Try moving the mic closer to and further from the speaker. Also check which speaker you are micing, some speakers sound better than others.

You mentioned the sound is "cardboardy," this leads me to believe that you are micing the amp too straight on and facing the dust cover. You are getting too much of the highs and not letting the lows develop. Try moving the mic back about 6 inches w/differing angles.

Also don't forget that the mic is an analogue to your ear. Move your head around until you hear the best sound and stick a mic there. You say that the cab sounds good in the room, where in the room? Do you mean right up against the grillcloth? Or do you mean 4 feet away where you are standing? If it's the latter, stick a mic there, not against the grillcloth.
Old 5th March 2003
  #13
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
The accoustic qualities of a room can have a profound effect on the recorded signal even if the mic is right up on the speaker grill.

Sometimes a huge room can be bad for closed mic gtrs.
Old 9th March 2003
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I couldn't help but to notice you had a 1960a cabinet...the one with the 75Watt Celestions, right? IMO that is the source of your distant guitar sound. Those speakers have NO presence and it seems the closer you get to them with a mic the worse they sound (a catch 22).

I know this is not a very eloquent way of putting it, but your speakers suck-ass! The hollow cardboard sound you're describing is exactly the sound I've gotten everytime I've used the 75Watt Celestions.

Your best bet is to get a cab w/ 25Watt Greenback Celestions or Vintage 30's. Even if you could get ONE Greenback and replace one of the speakers in your 4x12 it would help...just close-mic that one speaker with a SM57 or a Sennheiser 421 and you should be in business. I usually put the mic up close (from almost touching the grillcloth to a maximum of 6" away) and point it near the outer edge of the cone.
Old 9th March 2003
  #15
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
How about the cab flat on its back? Pointing straight upwards.

Regular close mike & one up by the ceiling?

Perhaps close walls are choking the sound.

You may have to make / use a right angled jack on the speaker cable to do this.

πŸ“ Reply

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