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Bass Amps and Cabs - Most Versatile?
Old 21st February 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Bass Amps and Cabs - Most Versatile?

I looked but didn't find a thread on bass rigs here at GSz.

So here's one.

Somewhere down the road within maybe 6 months, I'm looking to get a bass rig for my studio. Main requirement is versatility... good for a lot of styles, can get many differrent tones out of it from soft, mellow to loud, punchy, aggressive. I'm thinking Ampeg SVT or Eden, but I don't really know the model numbers. 8x10 would be too big, 4x10 would be ok. Or 2x15 unless it'll have too much sub and not enough top.

Tell me what ya know about bass amps and cabs along these lines.

Thanks!
Old 21st February 2003
  #2
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sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Are ya gonna be micing the cabinet as well as direct?...when ya say 'too big' are ya talking actual physical dimensions?....the reason i ask is, there aint a better bass amp in the world than an svt with the 8-10 cab...everything else is just another bass rig...BUT if its just too damn big for the floor space then i would look into one of the swr rigs...the edens are very nice....if you dont really 'need' a cabinet, the avalon d.i. is great...course you could always get a great pre,a class a power amp, find some small but mighty cabinets and go from there...i use harvey gerlitz cabinets and they really are well built...dont think you can actually find one but the idea is to get something ridgid and strong with good drivers......as far as versatility, the svt can sound like anything....maybe an svt head with a cool cab.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #3
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I'm feeling SWR & Ampeg B15

But I really dont have the depth of experience..

Great topic!

Old 22nd February 2003
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
out1ear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't favor ampeg cabs in most cases. The 8X10 cabinets have lousy low-end response. I really like swr(big bertha kicks ass). I also like the eden stuff alot. I'd also check out ashdown. I think the svt2pro is a really great head, but maybe not the most versatile...even with it's input pad, the preamp is still pretty easy to clip. Swr sm900 is pretty versatile....has parametric eq's.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #5
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CHAOS's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
...

Okay...

I'll be the screw-up and say I don't like SVT's for recording. They are great live but not for memorex.

I'd rather use a small amp like an Ampeg Flip-Top or a Fender Bassman on one channel and use an Avalon D.I. on another channel.

Go ahead... hit me.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #6
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subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I use an Ampeg B-25B with a SWR Goliath II primarily. The Ampeg's a 55 watt version of the B-15, and can still be found cheap. I used to use the original SWR studio head, but it wasn't great for recording, chock full of ICs. Love the 10" drivers in their 4x10 though. I also use a Marshall 1x15 with an Eminence driver and an Ampeg V4 with the matching 4x12 for more "specialized" sounds.
A lower power Ampeg tube head is tough to beat for bass tones, and a 4x10 plus a 1x15 will cover most players tastes. HTH
Old 22nd February 2003
  #7
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Ampeg makes a SVT 4x10 pro cabinet, but it has a LF port that extends down to 45 hz. Completely takes care of the low frequency problem mentioned a few posts above. Most likely it's going to be a special order though, I had to wait 2 weeks for mine and no one had it in stock. I love it, it's exactly what I'm looking for in a cab. Depending on the head it can be smooth and extended or mellow and 'bandpass'...whatever you want it to be. I've used it with SVT tube 300w heads, SWR, G. Krueger, Elliot Trace, all to good effect. I hate 15" cabs to tape. I will use a good DI instead of a 15" combined with the 4x10 cabinet. Don't forget about reamping as an option.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, I've got one of the Ampeg 4x10 pro/hlf/whatever cabs and it's wonderful. PLENTY of low end.

My usual starting point is a LittleLabs PCP for DI & a feed to the SVT4pro head to the cab. You can make a special cable to use SVT4pro's TWO power amps bridged into the pro cab (more volume and/or headroom).

Pretty versatile & powerful rig.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #9
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
So do you just mic the ported cab at such a distance that the ported sound resolves with the speaker sound? I avoid bass cabs with tweeters, so I haven't messed much with ported stuff.

Bear
Old 22nd February 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi all, this is my first post! (long time lurker, first time poster...)

I'm primarily a guitar/bass gear junkie who's recently liquidated everything for a cs spider and a bunch of other stuff, but I've played about a million bass rigs and think I'm qualified to give my opinion on what's worked best:

First of all, I can't stand SWR for anything but 'same old thing' fusion type bands where the bassist is playing a 7 string bass with huge bartolini pickups and using slapping techniques exclusively. I think they sound too bright recorded, and for example, they make John Paul Jones sound like crap on his solo record. I find that SWRs just have this really cold sound that I can't like. There have been a few times I've heard an SWR live and I was floored, but in general I don't like them. And their new stuff doesn't impress me at all. I think the Mo-Bass isn't very good sounding. The only SWR I like is my working man's 1x10 combo. That thing mic'd actually sounds REALLY cool when blended with a great D.I.

Ampeg flat out rocks live. All of the best bass tones I've ever heard at a concert have been delivered with an SVT stack (or something like it). I think their smaller amps (which were already mentioned) and their SVT-Pro (ss amps) line are great sounding and very versitile and definitely sound good in a studio environment. If you look for them used, you can get a very good deal.

I've found that Eden is a VERY hyped sound. Not what I would call a realistic sound at all, nor a colored sound that I like to work with. I know a few people who swear by them. And certainly they don't suck, but the only ones I like are the earlier ones designed by Demeter.

So far the best results I've had are with Gallien Krueger, Ashdown, EBS heads. As far as cabinets, I think my favorite is Epifani. At a recent session, we were going for a very creamy sound and used an Ashdown into an Epifani 3x10 and the results were great. Very thick and round. On another, we were going for an extremely down and dirty "Chris Squire" kind of a tone. We plugged an old 80s Gallien Krueger guitar head into an Epifani 2x12 and got one of the sickest "growly bass" tones that I've ever heard. The GK/2x12 rig is my 'go-to' for whenever I'm doing really ballsy rock. It doesn't always work, but I just love a big, nasty, but defined bass sound and I get it in spades with that rig.

The Ashdown cost 450 bucks, the GK 150... both give me absolutely wonderful tones on tape and didn't cost a fortune at all. The Epifani cabs are expensive (800 new for a 3x10), but I love them. Some people like Bergantino better, but I haven't tried those yet. The best "clean" sound I ever got on a bass was through an EBS Fafner (gorgeous amp) into two very small 2x10 EA cabs.

I prefer to use ashdown/gk/ebs heads, or ampeg's smaller combos or SS amps. Good results can always be gotten from any bass amp if you're a solid engineer and your player is great (and knows what he wants to sound like), but those are my preferences. And in general, I like to stay as far away from SWRs, Edens, and Mesa Boogie amps as possible. Also, I really do like direct sounds, and lately have been just going exclusively direct for my demos.

And I know this wasn't the question, but I generally like the sound of a good passive Jazz/P style bass. Someone who I record a lot has a set of Aero Instrument pickups in his bass and I think they are the greatest pickups in the world.

Anyway, just my $.02. I'm not a seasoned pro, so take it with a grain of salt, but I love these amps. HTH!

Ben
Old 22nd February 2003
  #11
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
bass amps

Although I love an SVT, I've found that my Mesa Boogie Bass 400 (not 400+) can do anything the SVT can do and a lot more. On the other end of the scale, my Ampeg SB12 can do the B15 thing quite nicely at about 1/2 the weight. Tonewise, I've never heard anything better than an original portaflex, and I was lucky enough to buy a "brand new" 1965 model in '82. (bought as a present for an accordian playing son who promptly quit playing the accordian - it was literally unused)

steve
[email protected]
Old 23rd February 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I love the VOX V125 Bass top!
It's all tube and has a lot of tones.
I found my self using it on an Ampeg 8-10 and all settings were great. You can't make that amp sound bad!
Old 23rd February 2003
  #13
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Great first post Ben!



Lot's of cool stuff here... keep it coming!

Er .. I thought an original Ampeg Portaflex WAS a B15 - no?

Any tips on spotting the best type?

Old 23rd February 2003
  #14
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Great first post Ben!
Agreed, lot's of useful tips.
I don't know nuffink,
but having sat next to SVT rigs a few times I would hardly imagine them to be the ideal studio set up. Not bad, but not ideal.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks guys, I hope I'll have more along the way =)

Just one last bass *****' tip I have is about basses- I think I mentioned that I dig passive fender style basses- but there are two other basses that I really like to have around. This is if we're talking "I want to have bass gear around for clients to use."

But these are basses I could recommend to ANYONE who wants to have some great variety to have around. This is all stuff that is reasonable in terms of $$ and provides a huge range of color.

1) For a Fender type bass, I don't actually recommend any modern Fender bass that I've tried. They're good guitars, but for the buck, you can do better. Here are some Fender style basses I'd "go to" or "stay away from."

*- Reverend Basses- Sick bargain, very unique and awesome sound. I highly recommend both his guitars and basses. This is Joe Naylor's company, who originally put out some of the sickest guitar amps ever known to man.

*- Schecter Rob DeLeo Signature- both the diamond (read: import) and pro version of this bass totally rock for any fender sound. The Diamond series is actually the cheapest bass I own, but after replacing the pickups- it's my #1 go-to for anything that needs a barky but recognizable fender tone. The Diamond can be had for 300 bucks and even bone stock, it sounds great and plays phenomenally. The body is really heavy ash, and that's my only problem. Also it has both P and J pickups.

*- Celinder basses- these are the best damn 'boutique' Fender basses ANYWHERE. They are pricey, with lists of up to 2800, so I'm not going to say that they would be 'worth it' to someone who doesn't have a lot of cash to throw around, but if you're an instrument gear slut, like I am, these are the end all be all for Fender basses. They sound, look, and play just absolutely amazing.

*- Lakland basses - I find that these are over priced. They play and sound very nice, but I'm pretty sure they aren't entirely crafted by Lakland, and are an extremely expensive buy. As I said, I'm also not a big fan of active electronics, and for the price of Lakland's more traditional basses, I would buy a Celinder bass.

*- Fender basses - YMMV is a big term here. I don't like the modern production ones. Some of their custom shop stuff is nice, but I still would rather have a Fender bass from someone else. That said, some of the vintage pieces just have a HUGE sound and vibe that can't be argued with.

(more in a sec)
Old 23rd February 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
bass amps

Er .. I thought an original Ampeg Portaflex WAS a B15 - no?

Any tips on spotting the best type?
************************************************

If you want to get really obsessive about this stuff, there was a great book published 4 or 5 years ago, " Ampeg, the Story Behind the Sound." 300 glossy pages of the most sinfull bass amp pornography imaginable.

If I remember correctly, the Portaflex series debuted somewhere around '59/'60 with a full range of "flip-top" amps for guitars, bass, keyboards and accordian (!)

While the B15 is the most famous model of the Portaflex line, it was just one of dozens of different flip-top models introduced during the 60's. And even the B15 came in several variations. My little SB12 is an almost exact 4/5ths scale version of the B15, with the 12" speaker being the biggest difference.

Besides sounding great, these amps were built to a much higher standard than any other "vintage" amps that I have come across. The construction of the wood shell for the portaflex cabinets is remarkable; the exposed wood on the inside of my cabinet looks like fine furniture and I swear its over an inch thick.

Every studio should have one of these things!

steve
[email protected]
Old 23rd February 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
2) "Other" Vintage w/ Clout Style Bass

*- Gibson RD Artist- read the reviews at Harmony Central. This is a sick bass. Great sound. Get one. There's one on eBay. Such a great sound, I love it for sort of dirty 'dub' styles, as well as really murky rock.

I've never been a big fan of Rickenbacker basses. I think Danelectro's are cool as hell. Ampeg "dan armstrong" basses rock.

The BIG winner for this style, for me, is Wal basses, made in the UK. They are simply sick sick sick. I'd be stuck between this and the RD Artist- both are great basses with a wicked vibe.

3) Active basses
The only one I'd really recommend for studio use (from my experience) are Modulus quantum basses from the early 90s. They have the most mellow yet tight low end of any bass I know of, and use GRAPHITE. There is no attempt at real exotic looks, or even an organic tone. These basses aren't supposed to sound like Fenders or Gibsons or Rics. They are the opposite of those basses. For a very moldable sound that is always uncolored, I think these are great basses.

There's a ****load of 'high end' basses that fit into the above category. They're all gorgeous, and some sound GREAT. I love MTD's, and some other fine basses. These basses are great live for really versitile sound, and sound great through a punchy SS rig with a bunch of 4x10s, or even direct to the FoH.

Problem is- there is no way as a studio owner (and that is who this list is slanted to) I could justify owning a 3k+ active bass to have around. Firstly, I found that all that bartolini electronics (the modulus' I have used all used EMG- which is about as basic an active as you can get) and the preamps tend to really cloud the sound and make it hard to get a really great tone that fits in the mix. And for that kind of money, you can invest in a crap load of stuff that would make your studio better.

So, that is roughly how I categorize electric basses, and the 'goods' and the 'bads' that I've found within those categories. There so many bass makes out there that it is impossible to touch on all of them, but that's a pretty broad list. And of course, YMMV. This is all just my opinion, and especially about guitar/bass gear, the old 'everyone has one' adage is true.

The one last thing I think I can offer my opinions on for 'bass gear' is to talk about string number and fretless options.

4 String Basses are a must, and generally what I prefer. These are the tried and true notes that have been hits worldwide and though I've never seen anything scientific on this, I would imagine that pop-minded people are most comfortable staying within these frequencies. For my own material, I rarely use anything else.

5 String Basses are a really reccomended have. A lot of bass players have just gotten used to them, and some people need that low B. I'd recommend that if you're going to get a low B bass that you do this with the Modulus. I've never heard a better 5 string, and if the person playing it has any technical ability at all, he can just avoid that low string if he doesn't usue it.

6+ String Basses... DON'T INVEST IN ONE. Here is why:
Most people don't know how to play them. If you have one, every bass dumbass who comes in to your studio will be trying to figure out how to play it, and will want to use that bass for his parts. He won't figure it out, and the most important part of the song will be ruined, or at least will take a long time to get down. This is a ****ty situation, because any band with a dumbass bassist like that probably won't have a huge budget, and will run out of $ before the project finishes, since half the time was spent putzing around with your cool Conklin 7 string bass.

The only people who REALLY know how to use those instruments are the ones that own them. And they will bring them. And they will (hopefully) rock.

To a lesser extent, the same goes for a fretless bass. But if you can afford one, I'd say have one on hand anyway. Because even a dumbass can sometimes make a fretless sound cool.

Okay, that's all I can think of right now. Hope some of this helps!
Old 23rd February 2003
  #18
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BattleAngel

6+ String Basses... DON'T INVEST IN ONE.

The only people who REALLY know how to use those instruments are the ones that own them. And they will (hopefully) rock.
Or more often than not start playing in the same register as the guitar.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #19
TML
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Funny this thread popped up. I just spent the past 2 weeks doing shoot-outs with about 15 different Fenders...Active passive....P...J...P/J.....Alembic...Music Man....The damn Fender passives won out everytime. Played through Dyn BM 15a's through API 312, Neve 1073, Tube Tech MP1a and Avalon 737 DI. Also we used the Sans amp. We called it the bass summit. I'm the freakin' studio after 11 pm till 3 am a bunch of nights. Had a great player and a bunch of 32 track tunes from 7 piece band. In the mix..the Fenders sounded great. Actually everything worked really well. I ended up getting a USA Fender Special..A P/J ...nice ash body...orange sunburst, passive pickups. They don't make them anymore. They're called the hot rod now. I got one that was in the store a while. Save me the trouble of goin' down to Rudy's on 48th for a mod. Although thats always a great excuse to check out new stuff. I'm still diggin' the Music Man. It was huge. Some of the guys thought it was too much in a mix. I thought it was big and tight. Any opinions.
Tim
Old 23rd February 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, the b-15's came about in the late 50's early 60's along with the b-12 the b-18 and a couple other configuations...one had 2-15's and the 40 watt head...around here we have a b-15(think its a 64)...an swr 160 head...a fender bassman 100(70's)...an ampeg svt pre(toobes and all) which we power with a crest....theres a GK amp...not sure of the model but its a single ten and about as big as a deluxe reverb...it sound great...theres even an old furman bass pre for color...i have to agree with the comments on the basses....we have both active and passive choices...the BEST is the stock 65 p-bass...it has the voice of god pickup...its just at that age where it sounds perfect and deep and huge without any dinking around....the 56 p also sounds good but it has that single-coil 'bar' and tends to react to any electrical source....theres an early 80's yamaha active 5-string that is a very solid defined sound, one that would work for funk,jazz,and even heavier 'new' music...the early 60's thunderbird never gets out of its case...nice sound though...two pickup model....reverse body etc....the kids drool on it....we have a mid seventies ibanez musician bass...the 'sting w/police' bass...this thing sounds great...it active but has a passive only switch...it recordes so smooth and full...almost the 65 but with some growl....last but not least theres the martin acoustic bass with the upper grade fishman set up.....i did a session with it a while back where i took a feed direct offthe pickup and put a large diaphram condenser out in front of it...the blend between the two was incredible....like a very very good upright without any dead spots.......we have a lot of options.......and always use the 65...go figure..........i still like the svt head for recording.....ya getin there and start working those switches for the different tone shapes and you can find anything you could want.....of course i'm talking about one of the older ones...maybe theres a difference.....oh and welcome battle angel...(snuck over from r.o.)
Old 23rd February 2003
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
out1ear's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been faithfull to one bass and it never lets me down. My goto is usually a 75 jazzbass thru an avalon u5. If needed I'll mic a cabinet during mixing.

Something about that jazz bass....It just seems perfect in almost any situation, especially on heavy rock! It's got a really distinct mid-range "growl" to it.

I've used active basses(musicman sterling, warwick thumb), but the fender seems to win everytime.
Old 24th February 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah one of these days I really want to invest in a great vintage instrument. I want to try that Avalon for direct! I just love going direct, for some reason. Maybe because most of my early demos were just crappy clips of an electric plugged into a sound card, and I cut my teeth on that feel ;-)

btw, if any of you are interested, here's a SUPER quick recordings featuring the $300 schecter bass. It's going direct through my Crane Song. The guitars are a Yamaha going direct through the CS also. Drums are recorded with an Earthworks Sr-69 as a front of kit mic.

Keep in mind that this was not meant to sound good, just get ideas down. But I think the bass sounds pretty neat ;-)

http://artists.iuma.com/site-bin/mp3...play_cover.mp3 <--- coldplay cover
Old 24th February 2003
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Excellent replies, everyone! I appreciate it.

BattleAngel, I already have a hammi-down bass that I like. I don't remember what make it is at the moment but it's an old hollow body with big F holes in it. Some Italian make. Looks like it was a low end model back in the day but it sounds pretty good. You've gone the extra mile by dropping a buch of bass makes I'd never heard of and would like to check out, next time I'm in the market for a bass.

I'll start out with Ampeg SVTxx 4x10 and try a bunch of amps to feed it. Whatever other cabs from this thread that I can get in here will get an audition as well. Mainly as I said before, I'm looking to get as many variations on the tone as possible. I would like it to fit at least a few styles really well: indie rock/pop (think Kim Deal/Breeders bass sound), hard rock (edgy, punchy, mean, ugly), and maybe funkish-jazz rock stuff (smooth, warm, round). That's the main requirement.
Old 24th February 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
In my opinion, the Epifani cabs excell and every style. It's maybe not the best for real crunchy rock, but for everything else, it's my fav. I think I'll be getting an EBS head, as they are terrific at every single genre I'd ever want to record. =)
Old 24th February 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I've never heard of Epifani or EBS heads. Does that mean they're fairly boutique? I might have come up with a budget so I know what I can try and what I shouldn't touch or even look at (did somebody say Spinal Tap?). I know I won't want to go over about $1500.
Old 24th February 2003
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If you want to spend around there, I think the sweetest rig is an Epifani cab (they are rather boutique, made in NYC) and an Ashdown head (made in UK- very cool). I have a few clips of that rig if you're at all interested. Buy used if you don't mind doing that- you can save hundreds that way.

Also seriously check out GK's amps- flea and the dude from Greenday use them and I think they sound great. But I'd really recommend the Ashdown/Epifani idea. Ashdown makes a great combo also.
Old 8th March 2003
  #27
Lives for gear
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Cabinets: I wanted an SVT but didn't have the money, and didn't think I needed a wall of speakers. So l looked into the "SVT Classic" line. I bought a 2x10 cab, I think it's the 210HE or something. Miserable piece of ****. firstof all, it has this crappy Fostex horn that would have to be a whole lot better if it wanted to aspire to uselessness. But you can turn off the tweeter. The other problem is that unlike a real SVT cab, this thing is ported and sounds completely different. I think miking a ported cab with a single microphone doesn't really get the job done, Idunno. So then I found another "SVT Classic" cab in a used shop. this one has four 10's, I think it's a 410HLF or something. It's bigger, but I don't move it much and since it's on wheels it's actually easier. It's beat to **** so it was cheap. The horn in this thing is WAY better than the other crap. You can actually stand to play with the horn set for something other than "off." More importantly, this model is a sealed cabinet. I think that's the big difference, though I'm trying to work up some theory how the wheels could make a difference. This cabinet kicks ass in a big way, whilst the 210 sucked ass in an equally big way. Kicking is better than sucking, so I'm going to keep the 410 and ditch the 210.

Amplifiers: Watts and tubes. Lots of both. The more, the better. If you can't have tubes, you need a lot more watts. If you can't come up with at least 300W or so, then tubes are a must. Nothing sounds worse than a solid state bass amp trying to play clean but running out of headroom. The conventional wisdom that you don't need a lot of volume to record a speaker just doesn't apply to bass guitar.
Old 8th March 2003
  #28
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I have been eyeing up the Ashdown range...

Pretty damn cool looking & sounding IMlimitedexperiencO
Old 9th March 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Just thought I'd share with you a new bass discovery I've made:

The Rob Allen MB-2 fretless. I recently played one of these babies and was totally floored by the sound and playability of this 34" semi-acoustic bass (no sound hole) that uses a Fishman piezeo pickup and coated strings. The tone is extremely unique and pleasing, sounding very much like a great upright bass. Here's a recording to show you a bit of what I mean:

http://www.roballenguitars.com/media...older/MB-2.mp3

I plan on getting one soon. I'm not sure if it will be versitile enough for live playing in any setting but one where an upright bass would be suitable, but simply as a unique sound, it simply rocks.
Old 9th March 2003
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
That MB-2 is pretty wonderful sounding. Sounds like a really good stand up bass meets a really good electric fretless. I wish I knew someone who could play a fretless well!
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