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Chip info..how does this effect PT V.S. Nuendo
Old 20th February 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Chip info..how does this effect PT V.S. Nuendo

Hey Guys,
just read this today, thought it was worth posting.
If you were thinking about a new computer you may want to know


http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/c...ditorial69.htm


RenShen

Maybe this should go in computers software threads, sorry if I'm at the wrong party
Old 20th February 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
He has many of his facts wrong, unfortunately. I'm all for faster CPUs and currently have 9 AMD based PCs. But he's way off the mark about most of his speed comparisons re: 32 vs 64 bits.

The actual improvements are much more modest. In fact, the biggest single benefit from 64 bit computing, and the reason it already has such interest at the server level, is the ability of a 64 bit CPU and OS to address more than 4 GB of ram, the current limit imposed by 32 bit systems.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 20th February 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Eric, are you thinking you'll get that kind of improvement from the AMD Hammer series on a 32 bit app under a 32 bit OS?

Brian T
Old 20th February 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
They'll ship at a top speed of 2GHz with an AMD rating of 3400+ on April 22, IIRC. The more expensive Opteron (server) version will be the only version until Sept.

Everything I've read over the last year indicates about a 25-30% advantage over the current Athlon XPs at the same clock speed on 32 bit code.

Faster, but not earthshattering, unfortunately. Apparently they're having some difficulty getting the clock speeds as high as they would like. For 32 bit code, a Hammer at 2GHz would be roughly equal to an Athlon XP at around 2.6-2.8GHz and a P4 at 3.4-3.6GHz.

I have no idea how long it will be until PC OS, apps, drivers, etc will be 64 bits. It will be a while, though.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 20th February 2003
  #5
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
And this might effect Pro Tools ..... how?

Thanks
Old 20th February 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The thread is asking about how this would affect "PT vs Nuendo", so I'm assuming the question is when CPUs will surpass dedicated DSP hardware.

For just pure horsepower. it's close now.A buddy and I compared my dual Athlon to his new HD4 (3 process cards + core) system a while ago. He was able to instantiate about 150 Ren EQ6 while playing back 128 tracks at 44.1KHz, IIRC. Of course, track count and DSP are unrelated on a PT system, but we wanted apples vs apples in a tough scenario.

I was able to do about 135 RenEQ6 on just the CPUs while playing back 128 tracks at 44.1KHz. "Snappiness" of the GUI was still very good under load on both systems. To be fair, I was using a Solid State HD on my system, so that was a technical advantage.

But the main problem for Native, and one reason I still use a system with dedicated DSP (PT, Paris and Soundscape are really the only three of those, IMO) is this.

Achieving hassle free low latency, full realtime processing (inline EQ, Comp, etc) and total stability at the same time on a fully self contained Native system is still tough. Yes, there are some decent workarounds i.e. Direct Monitoring, external mixer etc but reconfiguring and/or integrating an external mixer into the process is not for me and many others.

Will the AMD Hammer 64 bit CPU yield enough more speed to bring parity in all the above issues with hardware? I don't think so. Close, but I think we're one more CPU generation and one more OS generation away of the difference being invisble, especially for tracking a large number of inputs seemlessly. I'd love to be wrong, though.

I am at 1.3ms total latency through my system, measured empirically from mic in to stereo bus out, with both channel EQ and compressor engaged. A/D/A time plus about 7 samples internally. That is truly an order of magnitude better than any current Native latency in the digital domain. It's going to take one bodacious CPU and OS to get there and I have no intention of compromising those numbers to save the $$$.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 22nd February 2003
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Jens's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

For just pure horsepower. it's close now.A buddy and I compared my dual Athlon to his new HD4 (3 process cards + core) system a while ago. He was able to instantiate about 150 Ren EQ6 while playing back 128 tracks at 44.1KHz, IIRC. Of course, track count and DSP are unrelated on a PT system, but we wanted apples vs apples in a tough scenario.

I was able to do about 135 RenEQ6 on just the CPUs while playing back 128 tracks at 44.1KHz. "Snappiness" of the GUI was still very good under load on both systems. To be fair, I was using a Solid State HD on my system, so that was a technical advantage.

One thing that hit me when changin from native to protools is the sound of the ren eq´s. In PT the RenEQ has a little "48-bit processing" sticker on the lower left side of the plug-in. This seems to do a lot to the sound. I suspect that it needs more power than the 24 or 32 bit processing that the native system uses. Perhaps someone with programming skills can explain this?

What does the 48bit processing do and how much extra power does it require compared to native?

/Jens
Old 22nd February 2003
  #8
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Question for Brian T -

Q - If folks wanted to bring 96k 24 bit audio sessions to your facility to mix (created with Nuendo or PTHD) , would you ask em to convert that to 44.1 or 48 so you could work on it within Paris?

If so how would you convert the files?

I guess this already HAS hapened to you or WILL happen before the year is out.

Whats your plan?
Old 23rd February 2003
  #9
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jens
One thing that hit me when changin from native to protools is the sound of the ren eq´s. In PT the RenEQ has a little "48-bit processing" sticker on the lower left side of the plug-in. This seems to do a lot to the sound.
The native RenEq is 64 bit float. The main difference is that the TDM version is dithered back to 24 bits while the native is not dithered back to 32 float. This is because you can't define exactly where the output level will be at that point in order to know where to set a dither level. Adding 24 bit dither to the output of the 32 bit float processing chain should make everything sound pretty much the same or even better in the case of any TDM plug-ins that don't dither back to 24 bits!
Old 23rd February 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Question for Brian T -

Q - If folks wanted to bring 96k 24 bit audio sessions to your facility to mix (created with Nuendo or PTHD) , would you ask em to convert that to 44.1 or 48 so you could work on it within Paris?

If so how would you convert the files?

I guess this already HAS hapened to you or WILL happen before the year is out.

Whats your plan?

Excellent question and one I've been pondering. I have yet to have a multitrack mix come in at 96KHz.

I just worked on some stereo mixes that came in at 88.2KHz that were getting moved to 44.1K for a CD. We did an analog xfer directly from PTHD and also auditioned several competing SRC methods.

I was surprised at just how good a couple of the software based, offline SRC apps were. Given that, I'm still contemplating what to do about higher sample rates coming in. I have a few more options to assess.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 23rd February 2003
  #11
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
What options are you looking at?

Here's a few..

1) Renting in a (small) PTHD rig for a day and burning off converted files

2) Buy a 002 system to just 'have around the place' capable of playing back & converting 32 tracks at a time of 96k audio (or is the track count lower at 96k)

3) Hardware conversion? Euphonix format converter?

4) Barbra Batch?

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