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Who do you clash with? Do you know your self well enough?
Old 21st February 2003
  #31
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
Joe English, the drummer in Wings, told me about a band experiment McCartney wanted to try.

So it's time to mix "Band On The Run" and Paul brings everybody into the CR.
That must have been 'Venus and Mars' as Joe wasn't around on 'Band on the Run'. Great drumming by Macca IMHO.
You've got to give him credit for trying to involve the band though.
It's a fatal mistake to let any band member get involved at the mix stage. (That's coming from a musician BTW).
Old 21st February 2003
  #32
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This is close to what I am thinking at the moment, a lot of guys I am sick off. Is it just me or can players hardly play?
At the moment I have stopped advertising and giving it a month to wind down bands and then sit for a month and see if I want to continue. I am just burnt out…Lucky I still do IT 3 days a week to live off.
It is not about the song or the vibe no more.
It is about a band made up of "me me" types.
That’s cool if any had an once of talent.
Talent has been replaced by autotune, editing, beat detective etc etc.

I try to say its about the song and the vibe, let put down a few takes, pick the one that sounds cool and mix the sucker.
Too many bands really cannot play there parts so they struggle as the reach too high… then they over analyze everything spend 4-5 times more at least on it and end up with something still not in the god like image they wanted it. I mean a little practise would help...

The most important thing is the bloody song, the arrangement and if your singer has a vibe. Not your guitar sound, not the kick, not the snare, not even the mix to a extent..

Over the last few years I have gone from a 12 track Akai-> VST-> MixPlus-> HD system
Form a Beyer M88 to a U99. A Mackie to a API.
Bands playing is heading down hill.

My patience of players who cannot play a simple part as they did not practice is now zero, and sometimes I just cannot bit my tongue……
I almost played an acoustic bit myself, as in the 3rd 1 hour session over a few weeks the guy could not play a simple 16 bar shaker/perc acoustic part. I mean almost 3 hours for 40 second part. Eventually I chopped every strum of his up and put it in time…
Old 21st February 2003
  #33
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like this thread.
Old 21st February 2003
  #34
Hmmmmm..

Low practice level IS a problem...

We need stratagies to overcome it.

"Dont get mad, get even"!

Old 21st February 2003
  #35
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by NYC Drew
People who get paid to do a job, are aware that they have neither the qualifications or experience, and proceed to bull**** their way through it.
Dude... you're talking about my entire ****ing career here... it hits a little close to home... OK?
Old 21st February 2003
  #36
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
yeah this thread is just great and shows besides of some funny stories , that people who are doing " the same " all tend to come up with the same ideas . people who arent involved in that process and progress are UNABLE to get a single word out of those thought sharings . sure they can read , but somehow , the brain isnt hooked up to the " I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN " box .

so in some particular cases , you can act ass a fortune teller when you talk to people who are less experienced .

[ thats a major point of why i love this place , cause i am defenately experience addicted ( not in a sexual way ... hrhr ) ]

but still , nobodys " top of the line " . this shouldnt turn into a psycho - thread , but what i would love to know besides what most of our clients are doing wrong :

WHAT ARE YOU DOING WRONG ???

if theres a paralell universe i would like to read the threads from our clients on www.stupid-gearslutz.com

heh
Old 21st February 2003
  #37
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by davemc

The most important thing is the bloody song, the arrangement and if your singer has a vibe. Not your guitar sound, not the kick, not the snare, not even the mix to a extent..
I second that completely.
A lot of these complaints have to apply to 'band' musicians alone I think. Try these attitudes as a freelancer and your telephone soon wont be ringing.
When I was at music school there were a few guys blisteringly better than me on their instrument. I've ended up working more than all of them because I realised the song was king. I asked a couple of producers why they hadn't hired 'so and so' instead of me. The answer was always the same, 'yeah I used him once and he soloed all the way through the track'.
Some drummers physically aren't capeable of playing 1 & 3 on the kick and 2 & 4 on the snare for example. It's an amazing fact.
Old 21st February 2003
  #38
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
AAhhhhh....recording the local 'hottest little rock band in town'...yeah the hair is perfect....yeah the girlys swoon....yeah yer ****in guitar wont stay in tune throughout the two weeks i had to listen to it cranked up on the ureis....yeah yer ****in ampstack and all those ****in pedals sound like ass,eight speakers and you'd think there was one with some life left in it....yeah theres a beautiful 50 watt plexi sitting in our storage locker in the other room....'oh i dont wanna sound like all the others and marshalls all sound the same so lets use my crate crap.....'...suk my ass junior.....yeah yer brother-in-law has convinced you hes a producer...hes worked his way up from dragging drum cases up stair flights to 'helpin out with sound' and now hes a frikkin producer...."i think it needs some more of that 9K middlin stuff"....and on and on etc etc...i built a producers 'desk'...it had four knobs and a huge attenuater knob as the master...leds drilled into the beautiful wood trim and corinthian leather desk top...two 9 volt batterys supplied the lites...and when you turned up the big knob in conjunction with any two of the others.the leds would lite up sequentially...."OOH GAWD ....THATS IT!!!! PRINT IT"......uh huh......oh yeah...i tried the paul and wings thing with them....dimed all the knobs too, but thought thats how it was supposed to be...never did get em out of the CR after that...but they ALL took their turn on 'the producers desk'..............
Old 21st February 2003
  #39
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This one client is killing me. Throughout the recording and mixing of her first album, we would constantly have the "compression is evil" and "anything digital is evil" debates. She would not let me use compression or digital reverbs because she had read that they change the sound.

Golden ears, she did not have. A good musician, but not great.

By the way, we were recording on adats.

After trying to record her second album at another studio, she called and pleaded with me to work with her again.
This time we have spent hours trying to get her to understand why when one (or more) notes are out of tune on an accordian (or guitar) are out of tune and chords are being played, they can not be pitch corrected.

She also thinks that midi contains the actual sounds, and can't understand that I am fixing midi notes on the computer but why does she have to bring her keyboard in again to get the sound that we already recorded?

And, she spent 20 yesterday telling me how upset she was that 10 minutes was waisted in the session because she did not understand the midi problem.

I'm surprised she doesn't have an imprint of Lincoln's head between her fingers.

Thanks for the vent.
Old 21st February 2003
  #40
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by David R.

She also thinks that midi contains the actual sounds, and can't understand that I am fixing midi notes on the computer but why does she have to bring her keyboard in again to get the sound that we already recorded?
Did you use the "player piano" analogy? That one always works for me.
Old 22nd February 2003
  #41
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Had a less stressful day, recorded a country-pop band. Boy I enjoy recording roots music more.. Might have to look at specializing.

One thing I did think off is I actually spend probably 80-90% of my time with bands recording or editing.
I try to mix as I go and build the song and mix because of this. When it comes to mixdown, 2 or 3 passes if I am lucky as the budget is gone.
Do you guys doing weekenders and un-signed acts find this to be the same. We edit/overdub things down to useless levels and then basically flat mix as there is no money left.

Sorry to moan had a more enjoyable day today..........
Old 22nd February 2003
  #42
I have a rather socialy aggressive / take charge personality, so I TAKE CHARGE. Of everything!

Strikes me Dave that the lunatics are taking over the asylum a little too much round your place. Cant you set your stall out as co-producer? With say, desicision power equal to at least half the band?

Old 22nd February 2003
  #43
"This one client is killing me. Throughout the recording and mixing of her first album, we would constantly have the "compression is evil" and "anything digital is evil" debates. She would not let me use compression or digital reverbs because she had read that they change the sound. "

Hmmmmm bummer, I had a similar experience.....

Having attempted to do a spec deal with The Strokes a few years back, I thought I found "The Strokes mark II" at the last South By South West music festival last March.

However, upon meeting the band I was grilled on recording tequniques, a few were avid readers of tape Op. They announced cheerily that they were united in their hatred of compressors & wanted to use tape. I found this to be a PITA.

Despite their suspicious outlook, I proceeded to line up Sonic Youths private studio in NYC (my expense) and agreed to track to 16 track 2" (but I had an impending doom feeling that every move I made in the studio would be questioned) They rejected my offer. They felt I might sell their songs to be the Ku Klux Klan, or to advertise puppy & kitten extermination businesses.

In short their paranoia technically and music biz-wise was an obstacle we couldn't get over..

I think there must be quite a few "Tape Op" bands out there!

Old 22nd February 2003
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I have realized that I clash badly with artists with this type of personality / style.

- The nerdy, 'super bright', 'know it all' visionary songwriter.
So for Jules, it's no Mobys.

This discussion makes me as uncomfortable as a discussion on driving. I don't get road rage, I cause it.

As a musician, I'm definitely the Every Picture Tells A Story type. Combed my hair a thousand ways... came out lookin' the same.

Being new at recording people, what bothers me most is when a client makes a reasonable request and I'm at a loss. Two nights ago, it was a guy who wanted to record vocals and acoustic guitar at the same time. He's a folkie, it makes sense. Tried my best, but the separation... well, forgetaboutit. Did get a kind of live recording feel, though.

Jasper
Old 22nd February 2003
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Oh, yeah, I forgot.

There was a keyboard prodigy I produced once. Very talented guy, but whacked. Trained as a classical pianist at Peabody Conservatory, but had very good pop sensibilities. Rare combo, IMO.

Anyway, he had "upgraded" to being a midi guy and was playing a KX88. And before we began on his second record, he called me up and asked the following question:

"Should I have my KX88 tuned before we get started, or is it still in tune from the last record?"

I kid you not. Now we had managed 4 #1 singles in the CCM market on that first record, so the guy was intelligent and talented. But for some people, the technical side will just never come together.

As time went on, this guy gradually lost it. Disturbed musical genius syndrome. I had to quit the record one song into another effort with him. First time I had ever quit a label project.

Last I heard he had disappeared for a few days (he's married with kids) and was found wandering down the road missing one shoe. Went straight to the psychological unit at the hospital.

Sad. I have extreme tolerance for weird personalities (like mine), but there are limits.

Regards,
Brian T
Old 26th February 2003
  #46
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
wow this is getting deep.
Being an assistant (sissy) engineer and having to type the totally meaningless (she's sliding up on you and down on me) not even pornographic lyrics (****ty song, really!!) of a sucky canadian hard rock band ( that somehow went gold), when I didn't want to. I got paid (I kept my mouth shut, unlike the subject of the tune), yeah it was an easy job, but it really sucked (just like the subject of the tune, she was really a nice girl). It was worse talking with their A&R guy who couldn't even speak let alone type!! A&M.
There was also a time when I had a rehearsal for an important gig and tried to move a session from a month in advance and the "producer " wouldn't do it, so I black clouded the session (highly unpro), I never did it again.
Jazz bassists who badmouthed RudyVanGelder and lived to talk about it, who refused to pay for a session because he said the piano (lover) sounded like it was inside the bass, but he approved the mixes first, no copies!!!
Long time friends who turn your asshole insideout for a ****ty record deal (they're now in debt, also to me, I told'em).
The Rapper when I told him he couldn't have a cassette copy of the session before the record company paid for the session (record companie's orders, too many George Clinton stories, beat the boots) who pulled out a pistol, I had to tell him to put the pistol away in front of his girl. We met again and he got me really really as a favor for being level headed at the time. mystic cypher.
These are the tame tales.
English producer who loves southern rock and shows up at the studio on a horse and wants to record guitars to 1/4" tape loops and feed them into his Casio sampler and lock them to 2". As he's playing I can't tell the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff so I let the tape roll thinking that he's trying to find a feel (not to insult him by stopping the tape and asking "what the fucck's up wit you") he was trying to give me "signals " by playing really agressively poorly, he was so far up on that horse that he just rode it out of the studio, leaving his Casio there for 6 months after.
theres lots more
The lady jazz singer with the burn marks.
The death metal band that thought I'd be their mascot.
The night I came back to the studio after having a few drinks to the guitar player that was sleeping on the lounge couch who was holding a .357 magnum without his glasses on, screaming I'll kill you, I said **** your guitar was just out of tune we can fix it tomorrow.
The producer who hired professional cleaners before he worked at the studio and deducted it from the invoice (not my studio).
Interns of almost any flavor except the silent useful type.
Jazz guitarist who can't hear asking for deafening cans mix (go figure) and insulting me because " usually the phones sound like a C****ingD" not tonight
the tech who would ritually switch cues 1&2 as a joke untill he drank coffee with laxative in it for a few days being interrogated from the bathroom door about the mysterious cue problem which vanished suddenly.
The "producer" who owned chat lines who wanted to hear more treble before I learned to make control room monitor splits, one for you and one for me.
The cast of an all gay musical that raped the bass player from a male model rock group, I told them they shouldn't do that, they said that I was cute when I got angry, enough said.
etc...
Old 26th February 2003
  #47
Gear Addict
 
CrazyBeast's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Holy crap! Somehow I missed this thread and it's completely insane!! I guess I've been pretty lucky over the last few years, but now I need to come up with something to add. I certainly can't compete with this last post though. No wonder you're living in Italy now...
Old 26th February 2003
  #48
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
How about the singer who insists on tracking the same verse again and again, The whole way thru, But screws the same line. EACH TIME!

Uh Should that be a Drop in or a Drop Kick?


Old 27th February 2003
  #49
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by invisibl
How about the singer who insists on tracking the same verse again and again, The whole way thru, But screws the same line. EACH TIME!

Uh Should that be a Drop in or a Drop Kick?


Yes that old how much lead in do you need.
Some people only like a couple of bar max.
Others lets take that from the start again.
Old 28th February 2003
  #50
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by davemc
Had a less stressful day, recorded a country-pop band. Boy I enjoy recording roots music more.. Might have to look at specializing.
Yeah, music that is intended to sound like people actual playing with heart is definitely more fun.

Quote:
One thing I did think off is I actually spend probably 80-90% of my time with bands recording or editing.
I try to mix as I go and build the song and mix because of this. When it comes to mixdown, 2 or 3 passes if I am lucky as the budget is gone.
Do you guys doing weekenders and un-signed acts find this to be the same. We edit/overdub things down to useless levels and then basically flat mix as there is no money left.
I think it's especially important with inexperienced clients on a really tight budget to guide them through the process.

I'm usually the only one in the room who is in a position to consider what the repercussions of any given line of inquiry are going to be and to make sure that if something is impacting the budget, say taking a long time, or is under rehearsed, that we might want to come back to it in another session (for instance).

If someone insists of ****ing up their record, they do it with knowledge beforehand. I've been pretty lucky avoiding working with anyone who I was totally unable to coax into doing something resembling the "right" thing.
Old 28th February 2003
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Fibes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't mind visionaries and enjoy working them through to their vision but the pseudo-visionaries that don't really know what their vision is(but insist they do) drive me absolutely insane. making them think everything is their idea helps the process along but...

Speaking of vision...

I just tracked 5 songs for a band and before the vocalist stepped up to the mic he came to me and said: " I can't sing worth a ****. I'm a screamer and my singing will warble like wayne Coyne on a carousel" and not to worry too much. He said he had ADD and would lose it if he had to sing parts over and over and he wanted to capture energy in lieu of perfect pitch.

We blew through all the songs, fixed two lines total and i can't get his lines outta my head. It rocked.
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