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Favorite vocal processor-eq?
Old 6th February 2003
  #1
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Favorite vocal processor-eq?

There are so many. As far as non-vintage models go, what eq / processor do you like best on vocals during mixdown? Not necessarily talking about compression part.
737
Voxbox
Massive
X81-73
STT-1
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GML
Newer Pultecs
others
Old 6th February 2003
  #2
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: Favorite vocal processor-eq?

Quote:
Originally posted by Coldsnow
There are so many. As far as non-vintage models go, what eq / processor do you like best on vocals during mixdown? Not necessarily talking about compression part.
737
Voxbox
Massive
X81-73
STT-1
Quartet
GML
Newer Pultecs
others
I think this topic has been covered before.

The consensus was:

1)Massive Passive
2)Neve 1073 or 1081(or if you are Toni Mas a 1066)
3)GML 8200

This is also my most common mixdown EQ chain for vocals. Lately at times I've been substituting the Massive or Neve with a Summit EQP200. The GML8200 is always the finisher though.

This year i am looking forward to see how the IBIS fits in all this.heh
Old 6th February 2003
  #3
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Just to add to the post above, the compressor or compressors you choose makes the biggest difference when mixing down vocals.

Peace.
Old 6th February 2003
  #4
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AudioGaff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been very happy with the results I've gotten from the AMEK CIB. While I often use a different compressor or in addition to the one built into the CIB, The Eq and filters far surpass most other stuff including most consoles.
Old 8th February 2003
  #5
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Do you guys find anything wrong with running the analog compressor and eq right after the recorder output and then into an analog mixer line input (I mix on an analog board) instead of using an the channel insert?
Old 8th February 2003
  #6
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
No, not at all. That's exactly how I have my patchbay setup.
Old 8th February 2003
  #7
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If your mixer doesn't have balanced inserts (most don't) it's actually better to connect it your way. Also, if your mixer has crappy mic/line preamps, you can experiment with bypassing them by coming in the mixer right at the insert return.
Old 8th February 2003
  #8
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
During tracking my favorite EQ is a different mic. If it's already been tracked I try to figure out what the vocal needs. If it's major surgery I'll want a GML around or at least a Speck ASC. If it's little touch up's then something with lots of color is good. Pultecs, Neve's, Dakings, API 550's or even the console EQ (ack! what was I thinking!?!) does the job.
Old 8th February 2003
  #9
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Coldsnow
Do you guys find anything wrong with running the analog compressor and eq right after the recorder output and then into an analog mixer line input (I mix on an analog board) instead of using an the channel insert?
I've always done it this way, even back in the days when mixing from a 2 inch. I would just bypass the tape return and patch it in the insert of that particular channel(especially if the console was crappy or had problems).

At times on an SSL i would patch in a GML on the vocal channel insert.

Now adays I just chain it together. Different gear loads better than others when chained together.

You get all kinds of cool "sonic"colors.yuktyy
Old 8th February 2003
  #10
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
When I track I seem to use more 8200 than massivo. For mixing, it's the converse.

When I start slicing and cutting and boosting heavily with the 8200, I can often bring out lots of unattractive aspects of a sound.

The MP kinda masks a lot of ugliness with happy phasitude so I can more stupids be when using it.
Old 8th February 2003
  #11
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
For "surgery" Focusrite 215
into 1176
into ANOTHER 215 channel

:-)

I guess I like the 'loading"

Jules
Old 8th February 2003
  #12
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
For "surgery" Focusrite 215
into 1176
into ANOTHER 215 channel

:-)

I guess I like the 'loading"

Jules
Jules,

You probably one of the last few guys still using the 215 on vocals. I remember back in the early 90's that was all the rage. I've never been a fan of it on vocals though. I thought at times it could be a little"peaky" especially by itself.

By the way I feel the same for the GML8200. By itself on a vocal it can "squeak"at times. I think how you load it is the key.

I think lead vocals in a mix is one of the only tracks that needs some kinda analog processing. I don't think I've ever mixed a lead all digital. I think the uncertainty of analog enhances the uncertainty of a lead vocal.

heh
Old 12th March 2003
  #13
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I think the uncertainty of analog enhances the uncertainty of a lead vocal.

heh
Que?

What do you mean t-factor?
Old 12th March 2003
  #14
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Jules,

By the way I feel the same for the GML8200. By itself on a vocal it can "squeak"at times. I think how you load it is the key.

It's real easy to break a sound with the 8200. Boost or cut a little too much and you're ****ed.

With the massive it's more difficult unless you turn the Q all the way up and go wild.
Old 13th March 2003
  #15
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
It's real easy to break a sound with the 8200. Boost or cut a little too much and you're ****ed.

With the massive it's more difficult unless you turn the Q all the way up and go wild.

Well I've blown a couple of tubes already over driving them with too much bass info.tutt

I am about to retire my 8200 to drum duties only(I've always loved it on kicks and snares).


I've already started dreaming about the Ibis.


I was reading about in the latest EQ. It looks like a winner.

I am hoping it will replace my 8200 as my main vocal finisher. I could use it right now as a matter of fact.grudge

I am mixing a vocal where the Massive-compressor-8200 combo is just not cutting it. Its close...but not there yet!!!

But I still got some tricks up my sleeve.heh
Old 13th March 2003
  #16
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studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You guys have some great stuff together.
I track vocals mostly with the Pendulum Quartet or with a Daking pre - but I don't have a GML and no Massivo

Jo
Old 13th March 2003
  #17
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
You guys have some great stuff together.
I track vocals mostly with the Pendulum Quartet or with a Daking pre - but I don't have a GML and no Massivo

Jo
Hey Jo,

This is for the mix(mixing a vocal). heh

When I track a vocal I might EQ, but not so extensive(roll off the lows and add some "air").

Your setup sounds fine.

Even though I was never crazy about the Daking pre(and on vocals)?

But hey if its giving you great vocal recordings, than you are doing something right.
Old 13th March 2003
  #18
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studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Oh, sorry my fault, but while mixing it's mostly the Daking EQ and some other comp. The comp is actually more important to me than the vocal Eq (funny but it is). Even my ordinary desk Eq sounds just fine on most vocals
Jo
Old 13th March 2003
  #19
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
The comp is actually more important to me than the vocal Eq (funny but it is). Even my ordinary desk Eq sounds just fine on most vocals
Jo
Hey Jo,

I agree. The comp can make or break the vocal.

But there are times when you have to "kill" the vocal and bring it back to "life". heh

Sometimes you have to mix vocals you did not track yourself.

That's when you have to fix other people's mistakes(wrong mic choice,too much compression,too much room sound,weird noises,a vocal that was tracked in five different rooms by five different guys, and the most common...a vocal that was tracked at home by the artist,producer or friend with no ideas about gain staging in digital).
Old 13th March 2003
  #20
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Jo,

artist,producer or friend with no ideas about gain staging in digital).
Hey what are you referring to with digital gain staging? You mean material that is too quiet or overs?

BTW the 8200 is FUN with bass. Bass actually sounds tight still after boosting on the 8200.
Old 13th March 2003
  #21
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mdbeh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
and the most common...a vocal that was tracked at home by the artist,producer or friend with no ideas about gain staging in digital).
I feel kind of silly asking this, but can you elaborate a bit?

I've seen people record things into digital
a)too low
b)too hot
c)too hot with massive Softlimit trying to compensate.

Is this the sort of thing you mean, or is it something else?
Old 13th March 2003
  #22
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I shot myself in the foot (again) I tracked a band almost all flat, but part of the thing about the singers 'sound' is extreme 'edge' or HF gain. It suits him and is distictive. So now that I have thrown an overall EQ over the mix bus to add 'mastering style 'sheen' to my wonderfluly phase coherent rich tapestry of a production of course the vocal is now DOUBLY screetchy, as I foolishly RECORDED the HF boost when doing the vocals. What I SHOULD have done is put an Extreme EQ effect on the MONITOR only of the vocal.. and taken care of the final 'extreme' edge sound later...

oh well, the singer enjoyed the sound, it helped him do great vocals,

Now I just have to deal with it...

2 x de-essers / eq and a Fatso have JUST ABOUT got it under control now!

Lesson learned!

Doh!

Old 13th March 2003
  #23
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by mdbeh
I feel kind of silly asking this, but can you elaborate a bit?

I've seen people record things into digital
a)too low
b)too hot
c)too hot with massive Softlimit trying to compensate.

Is this the sort of thing you mean, or is it something else?
I think the common one is too hot.


Its the analog mentality setting in.

What happens when you record a vocal this way with bad converters is ugly.grudge

I haven't seen the too low thing lately though. When it happens, the biggest problem becomes room noise or noise period. You start cranking the signal and all kinds of noises start popping up.
Old 13th March 2003
  #24
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
Hey what are you referring to with digital gain staging? You mean material that is too quiet or overs?

BTW the 8200 is FUN with bass. Bass actually sounds tight still after boosting on the 8200.

More overs.


Are you speaking about synth bass or live bass?

The soft pillowy nature of the Avalon AD2055 EQ actually works a little better than the screechiness of the 8200 on bass.

But its not my first choice though.
Old 13th March 2003
  #25
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studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
[...a vocal that was tracked at home by the artist,producer or friend with no ideas about gain staging in digital).
[/B]
Well then ... I just retrack the whole mess. Most of the time it's faster than worrying about the most important thing in the mix. Actually I think, I'm not very good at surgical eq-ing. Everytime I have to do it I don't like the result. For me it's all about: if it's not on tape, you'll never get it . But who am I compared to some of you guys.

Jo
Old 13th March 2003
  #26
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
Well then ... I just retrack the whole mess. Most of the time it's faster than worrying about the most important thing in the mix. Actually I think, I'm not very good at surgical eq-ing. Everytime I have to do it I don't like the result. For me it's all about: if it's not on tape, you'll never get it . But who am I compared to some of you guys.

Jo
Yeah what if they like the performances?

To get an artist to do the same thing(sometimes 48 tracks of backgrounds alone) is nuts.

They will just find someone else that can work with it.

I spend the most time in mixing on the vocals(that is why I almost always mix vocals first). Most of the outboard gear I have is dedicated to getting excellent vocal sounds(drums is the other).
Old 13th March 2003
  #27
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I think the common one is too hot.


Its the analog mentality setting in.
Gotcha

What kind of things can you do to salvage overloaded vocals? I've messed multiband compression for this a bit, but it always feels like turd polishing.

And there are definitely times where I don't/can't retrack, even if the sound sucks.
Old 14th March 2003
  #28
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studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Holy **** 48 tracks of bgvoc
If retracking isn't an option what can you do against digital overs?

Isn't it all thurd polishing?-but first shot the tracking engineer (48 tracks of distroted bgvoctutt ) was this guy deaf or something?

Do you have an idea how to save digital overs reasonably?

Jo
Old 14th March 2003
  #29
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robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Hey thrillfactor, I noticed you said you've been using the the Summit EQ200.

What do you (or anyone else who owns one) find yourself using it for and what would you say are some of its strengths and weaknesses?

My studio partner is thinking about getting one, it would be his main outboard eq along with a pair of Averill 1073's.
Old 14th March 2003
  #30
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by robot gigante
Hey thrillfactor, I noticed you said you've been using the the Summit EQ200.

What do you (or anyone else who owns one) find yourself using it for and what would you say are some of its strengths and weaknesses?

My studio partner is thinking about getting one, it would be his main outboard eq along with a pair of Averill 1073's.
Hey RG,

Its a really good EQ. That you can control it an recall it as part of PT session is a god send!!

I bought it for my Bckground submixes(Summit MPE-200-->Compressor---> then off to effects). Its a great sounding unit. I also use it sometimes on guitars,synths, and knick knacks(I wish I had a couple actually. Then when I mixed in PT i can have them everywhere). On drums and bass its kinda tricky. The way I mix those tracks i already have a set chain that I use.

I've also tried using it as a finisher on vocals(instead of my GML8200). Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I resolved to use it for other duties, but continue to look for something to replace my old GML 8200.

Its not a bad choice for a main unit(it wouldn't be neccessarily mine) but I could see it in the right hands, being the right choice.
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