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MMmmm.... Cranesong EGRET!!!!
Old 30th December 2004
  #1
Registered User
 
Nevelicious's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
MMmmm.... Cranesong EGRET!!!!

8 channel D/A with a stereo mixer...... perfect sidekick to the Spider. Anyone see this thing yet>
Old 30th December 2004
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Why perfect with the Spider ?

It would be perfect, if I could cascade these boxes & insert them to my spider´s summing buss ( or vice versa ) without loosing 2 input channels & could use the spiders second power supply output....

I would prefer if Dave finally would upgrade the old spider AD converters, fix the mechanical humming of the Spider´s power supply, find a way to make the cable between the power supply and the Spider longer than 1,5 !! meter, fix the mechanical relay clicking noise in the Avocet, add a digital output in it and would release the 5.1 Avocet version.

However I have the impression, cranesong doesn´t take enough time to take care of details of their allready existing products at the moment....Instead of it they announce myths of new products, which will be available 1 1/2 years later (as in the case of Avocet).
Old 30th December 2004
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Blackwater's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Damn!
That stung a bit.
Felt it all the way up here.
Old 30th December 2004
  #4
Registered User
 
Nevelicious's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
OUCH!!!! I guess you have a good point though. I AGREE ABOUT THE SPIDER!!!
Old 30th December 2004
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater
Damn!
That stung a bit.
Felt it all the way up here.
Saying all that - I really LOVE my Spider and I LOVED the sound of the Avocet, when I heared it first...I also think that a cranesong summing box with DA is a brilliant idea...if they only would FINISH GOOD products, which they started once....to make them PERFECT

I e-mailed Dave several times about my ideas for the Avocet, since I HAD strong interest in this product. His answers showed me, that he does not take user input seriously.

I think it is a very sad story for a company, that actually built brilliant gear.
Old 30th December 2004
  #6
Registered User
 
jazzius II's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As soon as the Avocet gets a digital out (that's follows your digital source selection to feed digital meters), i'm taking one...not before...if it takes too long, i'll get a Crookwood .

The Egret looks interesting though there doesn't seem to be too much info available about how the thing works....anyone?
Old 30th December 2004
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius II
As soon as the Avocet gets a digital out (that's follows your digital source selection to feed digital meters), i'm taking one...not before...if it takes too long, i'll get a Crookwood .

Perhaps you want to take a look to the GRACE m906.

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/906_904/m906_m904.htm

In the beginning it also didn´t have digital outputs.

Somehow someone convinced them to make a little update and include a 5.1 AES output, which follows your digital source selection.
After some months of development / testing it´s available now.

That´s how I imagine a pro audio company to react on user input Dave
I´m going to buy one
Old 30th December 2004
  #8
Registered User
 
dim light's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah I love The Grace Design. I'm saving for a M904b!

I hear that the Hedd also have the hum thing happening.
Old 30th December 2004
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Blackwater's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
I have no " hum-hum" with my HEDD.
Old 30th December 2004
  #10
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
No hum here with our spider....



Whats wrong with the A/D's?
Old 30th December 2004
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Froombosch
No hum here with our spider....
My power supply hums - and makes strange high frequency noises - notice - these are mechanical - NOT in the audio path - which is not much more pleasant



Quote:
Originally posted by Froombosch


Whats wrong with the A/D's?
They could sound a bit nicer in the top end & they should be 192 khz like the new converter chips in the HEDD 192
Old 30th December 2004
  #12
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jazzius II's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No hum here with stc8, ibis or hedd!
Old 31st December 2004
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
I e-mailed Dave several times about my ideas for the Avocet, since I HAD strong interest in this product. His answers showed me, that he does not take user input seriously.
I don't know what you said and what he said, but because he didn't like/use your ideas, you've concluded that he doesn't take user input seriously?

-Duardo
Old 31st December 2004
  #14
Registered User
 
catfish11's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
i thought the AD on my spider was very good, pls clarify
your problems? lack of quality?
i am curious as i own that and a digi 192-
which the spider eats every morning for breakfast
also i have no noise from my power supply

about customer service -
one of my led module lights stopped working
dave sent me another free after having owned it over a year
i then switched out the modules and sent the old one back
all at cranesongs expense, so sight unseen w/ only my word they sent a new one so i wouldn't lose even a channel of their GREAT conversion and preamplification
plus they sent me a cool t-shirt free........THANKS DAVE!!!

cranesong's products and service are second to none

negative garbage that can effect how people view a company is all to easy, and carries no responsibilty, only the eventuallity
that someone may make a purchasing decision based on bogus
info.
the spider is the spider, it is all that it needs to be
you don't like it build your own or buy sumth'n other
i had no anticipation of something other than what i bought
what is with people who feel they are entitled to more than they have bought

whinnning ---- " i bought a mix system 4 year ago and digi won't give me full value back, they suck"
tough shit
companies NEED to show a profit, so when you do call em someone might pick up the phone, or maybe you use NUENDO
HA!!!! HA!!!

by the way i just ponied up 2500 for an accel card
my system RULES!! pure power and stability
and it pays for it self and people want to use it-
ergo, i make MONEY!

the spider is a killer deal, if you do not allow yourself to be shafted by certain distributers, which will go unmentioned here

CRANESONG ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

20,000.00 - protools accel, control24, apple g5
and you can be on your way
think about what that kind of functionality would that have cost 10 years ago
idiots want to open a pro studio for 100.00 bucks
and whine that their shit don't sound like a record
tough shit, again


have a nice day, ALOHA!!!!
Old 31st December 2004
  #15
Registered User
 
Vari-Mu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by catfish11

what is with people who feel they are entitled to more than they have bought

whinnning ---- " i bought a mix system 4 year ago and digi won't give me full value back, they suck"
tough shit
companies NEED to show a profit, so when you do call em someone might pick up the phone, or maybe you use NUENDO
HA!!!! HA!!!

by the way i just ponied up 2500 for an accel card
my system RULES!! pure power and stability
and it pays for it self and people want to use it-
ergo, i make MONEY!

the spider is a killer deal, if you do not allow yourself to be shafted by certain distributers, which will go unmentioned here

CRANESONG ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

20,000.00 - protools accel, control24, apple g5
and you can be on your way
think about what that kind of functionality would that have cost 10 years ago
idiots want to open a pro studio for 100.00 bucks
and whine that their shit don't sound like a record
tough shit, again


have a nice day, ALOHA!!!!

That coffee is pretty strong, huh?

-Vari-Mu
Old 31st December 2004
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaman
fix the mechanical relay clicking noise in the Avocet,

I also own a Avocet (Love it!) and the mechanical relay clicking noise does not bother me at all, in fact I think it's kind of cool! Guess I'm not picky enough.

Old 31st December 2004
  #17
Registered User
 
catfish11's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
when u post that people, products suck when they don't u are
screwing w/ their livlihood
there is too much of this misinformation on web


i am sorry i got carried away.....






though..........




tough shit!!!!
ALOHA!!!!
Old 31st December 2004
  #18
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaman
They could sound a bit nicer in the top end, like the new converter chips in the new HEDD & they should be 192 khz
According to Dave, the HEDD ADC and Spider ADC are identical.

No hum on any of my CS stuff. Including the 3 HEDDs I've had...
Old 31st December 2004
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
catfish, brad & others

Whatever you may report (in America and elsewhere) about your CS units:
My spider power supply hums and makes high frequency noises.
I´m not the only one with that problem in Germany.

Dave answered me one year ago on this problem, that it must have something to do with the different electrical power conditions in Europe.
My local CS distributor, Akzent audio built a new chassis plate to reduce the vibration noise - it is however better, but still NOT SATISFYING for a PRO audio product with this price tag.

The beauty of the cable design between the power supply and the Spider consists of the fact, that it can´t be longer than 1,5 meters. So there´s no chance of putting that humming son of a bitch even to the machine room...very intelligent...
None of my Manley, Avalon, Urei or Smart gear hums or makes similar disturbing noises. Maybe many of you don´t have separated machine rooms and absolute noise free, QUIET control rooms like me - but if you had - believe me - that noise IS disturbing

Same story with the mechanical clicking on the Avocet. If your computer harddrive and fan noises in the control room don´t disturb you, so the clicking won´t disturb you. But believe it or not - my ears happen to work quite sensitive . So several of my mastering clients including me find it unacceptable loud.

Dave´s answer on my question if he could change the loud relays was:
The price for new relays would be too high, machine rooms are good...Well....easy answer...

Then several other interested customers including me demanded a AES digital output for metering, which is absolutley necessary if your job is mastering (you just can´t decide seriously from the built in low resolution meters...). Can´t be so difficult.
Of course I would PAY for it as an OPTION (as Grace did it on request for their m906)
Dave however said: NO


Converters :
Brad ! The converters in the HEDD 192 run 192 khz, while those in my Spider only run 96 khz. Do you think, they really are the same chips? My local distributor told me, they are different.
However during the AES in Berlin DAVE told me, that an upgrade will come and the plan is pretty old. From the distributor I also know, that the power consumption of the new converters will be a lot lower than of the old ones.

Announcements and release promises:

The Avocet has been announced for a very long time. Promises followed promises and nothing has been released. We gave a lot of input here on gs , 5.1 among that. Dave said: No 5.1 will come. Brad released new design sketches on gearslutz. we discussed a lot, gave a lot of input again. nothing has been released. finally it has been released - without digital outs, 5.1 and disturbing clicking noise. Not what I consider paying attention to your users.
Now instead of fixing the above mentioned, they are making announcements for new half thought products again, we are giving again lots of input,......etc. ???

So Brad / Dave , am I too naughty to ask you this question:
Why that "preliminary information about half ready products - strategy" if in the end you don´t use the input, you are getting ?


Conclusion: Some few engineers like me are demanding customers. That´s good, because we can help making good products even better.
Now if some companies decide to use our input to improve their products ( like Grace f.e. ), we will buy those products, use them for a lifetime and recommend them to others.

If other companies think, they have become very succesfull and don´t feel a need to listen to us, we´ll draw our conclusions from that. However some of you seem to be married with their gear / those companies - I´m not .

I´m just saying to cranesong: Do your homework! Unless you don´t I will buy my gear from other companies.

stike
Old 31st December 2004
  #20
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaman
Brad ! The converters in the HEDD 192 run 192 khz, while those in my Spider only run 96 khz. Do you think, they really are the same chips? My local distributor told me, they are different.
Wow, do your homework. The ADC is exactly the same, limited to 96k just like Spider. Dave has preliminary 192kHz DACs (just to be clear, Spider does not have DACs, ok?) almost ready for HEDD, but the ADC is unchanged.

Quote:
The Avocet has been announced for a very long time. Promises followed promises and nothing has been released. We gave a lot of input here on gs , 5.1 among that. Dave said: No 5.1 will come. Brad released new design sketches on gearslutz. we discussed a lot, gave a lot of input again. nothing has been released. finally it has been released - without digital outs, 5.1 and disturbing clicking noise.
Sure, Dave should have simply wiggled his nose and sprinkled magic pixie dust and *poof*, here's your Avocet.

The reason Avocet took 'so long' was because he finished the design and showed it at AES one year only to be asked about many options not included, so he went back to the drawing board and came up with the new version. He was doing precisely of what you accuse him of not doing...

Quote:
So Brad / Dave , am I too naughty to ask you this question:
Why that "preliminary information about half ready products - strategy" if in the end you don´t use the input, you are getting ?
I can't speak for Dave here, but I was fishing for input for options for Dave. I don't work for Crane Song (heck, I'm not even a paid endorsee, I'm just really good friends with the guys). Whether or not he chooses to include something is his prerogative, just as it's yours to buy it or not.

Quote:
Conclusion: Some few engineers like me are demanding customers.
Yah, like I'm not demanding...

Quote:
That´s good, because we can help making good products even better.
It can, or it can make products that are designed to work at a particular pricepoint 'perfect' for you and the 4 other people that would buy it.

FWIW, I've never even used an Avocet, so I don't know how bad the clicking and such is. To be honest, I imagine it's a great box and really don't know why it would be such a train smash to put something noisy in the machine room.

Quote:
I´m just saying to cranesong: Do your homework! Unless you don´t I will buy my gear from other companies.
I don't know what to say to this. If CS released a crappy product, I certainly wouldn't buy it, but their reputation is (almost) without reproach. I honestly cannot think of one other pro audio company that is so loved by virtually all customers.

I understand your frustration with your Spider issues, but frankly, spreading untruths about products as you 'heard from a friend' or whatever does little for your credibility in my book. HEDD, STC-8, and Ibis do a lot for CS's credibility, imo.

I've alerted CS to this thread. If they decide to reply, great. If not, also great.

Happy New Year, everyone!
Old 31st December 2004
  #21
I belive that 'clicking noise' in the Avocet is a judgement call on their part to use a high quality component.

IMHO I thought the very quiet 'safe cracking' sound was 'reasuring' and a kinda cool mark of quality...
Old 31st December 2004
  #22
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
If I may bring this back on topic, where can we find out anything about this Egret?
I did not see anything on the CS site.
thanks.
Old 31st December 2004
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
...but frankly, spreading untruths about products as you 'heard from a friend' or whatever does little for your credibility in my book.
The ADC update information has been given to me by Dave himself / my german CS distributor. If Dave does not remember what he said that´s not my problem. If he gives me or his distributor wrong information, then HIS credibility is in trouble.

However the Spider ADC could have a nicer top end.
Something in the league of the new Avocet DACs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood

FWIW, I've never even used an Avocet, so I don't know how bad the clicking and such is. To be honest, I imagine it's a great box and really don't know why it would be such a train smash to put something noisy in the machine room.

Well I always thought, it´s a good idea to keep speaker cables as short as possible. What will happen to my unsymmetrical headphone cables if I add another 20 meter lenghts between my machine room and my headphones ??
I´m also looking forward for buying another 100 meters of monster digital / monitor cables for this elegant "anti clicking" workaround. Very cost effective ! Think twice !
BTW is the Avocet remote cable capable of lenghts up to 100 meters (no unusual distance between control and machine rooms) ? I´m only asking because my Spider.........

What about fixing the problem where it is: Grace´s volume knob also seems to be non compromise quality, non colouring while at the same time it doesn´t click...it simply would mean sitting down one more time....this is what Dave means is "too expensive"

Personally I don´t care what you think about my opinion.

It can be so easy:

If I buy a Porsche and I´m willing to pay some extra money for extra stuff to be built in, Porsche better should take the money and do the job. Because they know, that Maserati is only around the corner and waiting for the same cash...

In the case of the Avocet I ensure you, some of my german colleagues allready decided for the Grace m906.

If "I and the other 4 people" don´t count for cranesong, allright.
I´m sure Grace will be happy with us.

Cheers
Old 31st December 2004
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
IMHO I thought the very quiet 'safe cracking' sound was 'reasuring' and a kinda cool mark of quality...
Exactly!

Quote:
Originally posted by rove If I may bring this back on topic,
Concerning the Egret, I think it would be nice if the Egret would have some kind of coloration device like the iron switch, the Fat switch on the Flamingo or the adjustable color function on the Ibis. Just my two cents.

Keep up the good work!
Old 31st December 2004
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
Wow, do your homework. The ADC is exactly the same, limited to 96k just like Spider. Dave has preliminary 192kHz DACs
Back to school Brad,

http://www.cranesong.com/hedd192.html

...as well he announced 192 khz ADCs.

Will be Upgradable to 192K sample rates...once parts are available



His announcement only happened so long ago, that I was allmost shure he has built the ADC´s allready in .
I´m also shure, that the german distributor told me, that the new HEDDs allready have new converters built in.




Happy new year also from me
Old 31st December 2004
  #26
Registered User
 
Bosco's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Hedd at this point is 96k only period....it clearly states that on the page you linked.

Mr Hill has not put 192k chips in his boxes yet because none of the chips on the market are up to his standards or should I say work in a sandwich manner(96k+96k=192k) that he finds acceptable.

As far as the AD in the Hedd, put it up against the other AD's out there Prism,Lavry,Digi,Apogee,Radar etc..and see where it stands,I did and it is still in my rack........

BT
Old 31st December 2004
  #27
Registered User
 
catfish11's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
out of curioisity why would you buy 96k conversion if you wanted 192k

i would like to point out a slight flaw in your reasoning-

cranesong should cease R&D and product development
so as they might fix/repair existing problems with their present equipment
that require additional R&D and product development.

i have to say i find it rather amusing coming from a europeon and using europeon products as examples of proper product
reliability
native instruments anyone? steinberg? logic?
yikes!
even the overpriced neumanns could fall into this catagory

i believe you are on to something here though, if you do not like the product, sell it and buy a different one or do your reseach better

we call this capitalism - as in a wide and varied competitive marketplace, offering lots of choices

i do not like my icemaker in my refridgerator, they should give me a new one or come to my house and install an improved one.

this line of reasoning is absurd

take responsibility for your actions
research, i did before i dropped 5500.00 on the spider
i can only imagine what one would cost over there in your protected marketplace
all the more reason to investigate
EVERYONE knows the avocet has a click
it's all all over the web
you do not like the click.

i am sorry shaman but it would appear from here that you spend a lot of money without properly researching first
which from my very logical standpoint makes you a fool

thus instead of degrading perfectly reputable manufactorers
perhaps you should look at yourself

i mean you wanted 192k conversion and you bought 96k
if you worked for me and i asked you to buy 192k and you bought 96k i would asume you were to dumb to do the job or didn't care
and i would have to consider letting you go
it is good you live in a country that will take proper care of you

i am sorry,

but, YOU'RE FIRED

while you are out looking for a job you could perhaps design a isolation case for the cranesong spider power supply
i here there is an incredible market for them in europe and i believe would be relatively easy to construct

this could make you a very rich man, indeed
Old 31st December 2004
  #28
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaman
Back to school Brad,

http://www.cranesong.com/hedd192.html

...as well he announced 192 khz ADCs.

Will be Upgradable to 192K sample rates...once parts are available

His announcement only happened so long ago, that I was allmost shure he has built the ADC´s allready in
OK, call here: 715.398.3627.

They are not shipping with 192k ADCs yet. Period. In case you have trouble understanding, I'll explain:

'Will be' - means future, not now.

'Almost sure' - means you have no idea, just guessing.

HEDDs are shipping at 96k and will continue to do so for some time. The box is built to be upgrade-able to 192k when he finds parts that sound good to him. There have been no, zero, nada, zip, zilch announcements of 192k ADC availability for HEDD. I don't care if your distributor, the pope, and your own mother told you, it's not happening yet...

Now if you have any more fallacies in need of correction, kindly call Crane Song at the number above and stop wasting bandwidth on misguided assumptions and incorrect guesses. Thanks.
Old 31st December 2004
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Catfish,

Thanks for your lesson in capitalism. Very funny.

Unlike you cranesong is not my religion and Dave Hill is not a god to me.
I don´t share your: "buy my gear or die" hamburger mentality.

I think it´s legal to say: "Yes my Spider is great ! I love it !
and
it has this and that problem, which should be fixed" at the same time !
These are in alphabetical order: Hum & too short power cable

AD conversion: I like, what I bought. This is ca. 1 year ago. But I know it still could be better on the top end (especially since I heard what Dave did for DA conversion in the Avocet...)

BTW I didn´t buy an AVOCET --> I´ll buy a Grace m906

Brad,

You´re right .The thing with unavailabilty of the 192k upgrade seems to be a fact. Non the less my other 5 points still are not really answered. And I think all non cranesong christened gearslutz have a right to experience non conformistic opinions like mine.

However, especially you Americans know, that business is not being made with facts.
It´s being made by making customers happy.

Grace mastered that lesson very fast. heh
Old 31st December 2004
  #30
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
"You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

And with that, I'm done with this thread.
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