Quantcast
Large Diaphram Dynamics - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Large Diaphram Dynamics
Old 18th January 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Large Diaphram Dynamics

...besides 421's, N90's, and RE20's. Any other's worth checking out? Just looking for something general purpose as an alternative, so I'm not necessarily looking at the D112 and the like. I currently own no LD dynamics. Thanks.
Old 18th January 2003
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Curious G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I find the SM7 to be fairly general purpose. I don't use it as often as a 421 or RE20 but it gets a good workout here.
Old 19th January 2003
  #3
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like my Peavey (!) PVM 520i LD dynamic, but I just use it on vocals.
There's an interesting article on various microphones at www.prorec.com
Just enter "True Love" in the search field to see it. It listed this mike as
a "sleeper". Another sleeper is my Beyer Soundstar X1N.
Sounds like a punchy 421 on vocals.

Chris
Old 19th January 2003
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, SM7. Can't go too wrong with one of those. Also, the ATM25 but I don't know if it's as general purpose as the others. I'll use those on kick, toms & bass amps and they appear to be pretty neutral. I've never tried one on vocals or on a guitar amp.
Old 19th January 2003
  #5
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Isn't the choice of mic pre a bit more critical with the SM7 since its
sensitivity is so much less?

Chris
Old 19th January 2003
  #6
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
The SM-7 actually has the same capsule as the SM-57 (though a "selected" version), which isn't that large. It is a great mic, though, and compares well to the other usual suspects. Harvey Gearst uses this as his first try vocal mic with a very high success rates. It's smoother and warmer than an SM-57. The cage (implemente largely to prevent mic-eating proximity boost) limits the max output, and like a 57, pre choice is important for the best sound.

I like the Beyer M-88. I describe it as the mic an SM-58 wants to be. A classic on kick, great on the right vocal, usable to good most anywhere. The hypercardioid pattern is great for bedroom studio guys like me because it helps limit less than flattering room sound. Also, it's typically much cheaper than anything else in its class.

Sennheiser MD-441 is a classic, with a near perfect hyper pattern, and it's supposed to work well on about anywhere. It's not just a step-up from a 421, it behaves like a different mic. Ebay prices, even on new ones, have been shockingly low lately.

You mention the Stedman N-90, and I had asked on another forum at another mention what you like about them. I have two that I use regularly, but they haven't really grabbed me. What sources do you like them on, through what pres, and with any particular placement?

Bear
Old 19th January 2003
  #7
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Bear, thanks for the info.
Harvey has also mentioned the SM7 is a popular vocal mike in Nashville.
I'm also a fan of the Beyer M88 (M88TG in my case).
Want to try a '441 sometime though.

Chris
Old 19th January 2003
  #8
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Sleeper Mic of the Decade Award

I know it's not a dynamic but I love this mic on everything, and it's waaaaayyy less expensive than any LD condenser (tube or not) that comes close to sounding as good:



I got it for $1300 with both capsules included. If anyone's interested I can tell you where. BTW, one of the capsules is 1.25" (!) and the other is 1.10". Both are 3 microns thick. The capsules can be changed easily, pretty much plug and play. If you want to talk sleeper mics, I can't think of anything less appreciated than this one. It completely rocks on everything I've ever used it on, but favorites are loud, distorted guitar cab, kick drum from x feet out in front, acoustic guitar, exceptional vocals, excellent drum overhead (I only have one but that will change).

I won't try to describe how it sounds because I believe like any instrument, you should always hear it for yourself before you decide to live with it. The only details on sound I can offer are "euphonic tube saturation" if you push it, and extreme detail of any source.

Oh yeah, comes in a big ass metal flight suitcase which is pretty cool. Almost forgot to mention it's name - CAD VX-2. I have no stake in pumping this mic, I just love it.
Old 20th January 2003
  #9
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for all the replys.

Yeah, the VX2 is quite a beauty. I was seriously considering it when I bought my U195.

As far as a pre for the SM7, I'd be using an Earthworks LAB102 at this time.

Bear,
I don't own the N90 at this time, but almost bought one off e-bay cheap. What I've heard of it I like, but I'm aware not too many folks are thrilled with it's performance. That's why I'm wondering what others are using, and if I'm missing any. For example, I did forget about the Beyer M88. Any other MIA models?

Keep 'em comming!
Old 20th January 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
dave-G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
MIA models... hmmm... while not made anymore, I get a lot of mileage out of the Sennheiser 409 (have not yet heard the 609, which they currently make). I also like the old Shure SM5 and AKG D12. I have a colleague that swears by the AKG 3700, but I've never heard one myself and it's probably not a large-diaphragm. I'll add a "me too" to the appreciation of the RE20 and Beyer M88, but I've also gotten some good use out of the Beyer 201 (not LD)

So why are you looking for a large-diaphragm dynamic in specific? What do you think the largeness will add?

-dave
Old 21st January 2003
  #11
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Well, there is the intuitive notion that the large diaphragm mics, whether condensor or dynamic, will offer a smoother tone and bigger bass. So the assumption is the large diaphragms will be more conducive to vocals, kick drum, and bass, among other aps. This may not be specifically true when comparing a specific small diaphragm model to a specific large diaphragm model.

Bear in mind, the SM-7 is often called a large diaphragm dynamic on these forums when it is in fact a selected capsule of the same design as an SM-57. Another example from Shure, the Beta52 kick mic looks as big as the other large diaphragm kick mics, but it has the same sized capsule as the other Shure dynamics.

Typically, the classic large diaphragm dynamic mics do represent the peak of their manufacturers' quality and performance among dynamics, and most of these are quite flexible in the studio. I wouldn't turn up my nose at an RE-15, 635a, or an M-201 by any means, but none of these are in the first group of mics I would try for a vocal, kick drum, or bass cabinet.

Bear
Old 21st January 2003
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Curious G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Bear, you write that the sm7 capsule (selected 57) is'nt technically LD. Do you know the size? I can't find the specs on the Shure web site. What defines LD? I thought anything over 3/4" or maybe 7/8" would be considered LD. Straighten me out!
Old 21st January 2003
  #13
Han
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The Beyer M69 is a pretty good mic too, less low end than the M88, but a good and versatile mic.
Old 21st January 2003
  #14
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G

So why are you looking for a large-diaphragm dynamic in specific? What do you think the largeness will add?

-dave
Quite simply, I expect a different personality...behavior, if you will, from what I currently own...a different color.
I have different mid-small diaphram dynamics, as well as condensers. I'm hoping to round myself out a bit with a LDD and a ribbon(down the road).
Old 21st January 2003
  #15
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If we're opening the gates for SD dynamics too, a "MIA" microphone is the Beyer Soundstar MKII.
It was originally pointed out to me by Harvey BTW.
It's the one that looks like a SM58, except it sounds much better
on most voices. Good resistance to popping, smooooth lows/mids,
and a crisp (but not harsh) top end.
Sounding like a wannabe wine taster now aren't I?

Chris
Old 22nd January 2003
  #16
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
The RE20 appears to be a love it or hate it kind of mic. How does it compare to the Beyer M88?
Old 22nd January 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Beyer soundstar Mkll....back in the day when i was young and traveling around making musical noises, i bought 2 of these little beauts....everything that 'chess'(chris) said...still have one ....mostly i use it on the occasionally problem hi-hat or something of that nature....for a mic that just bides its time in the locker it has solved many problems that 57 or 58's couldn't do....tried it recently as a neck mic in conjuction with a large diaphram on a banjo and it brought a very acceptable sparkle to everything.......not mia here......
Old 22nd January 2003
  #18
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks sonic for the affirmation on the Soundstar MKII.

T. Alan, you can get much more "up close and personal" with an
RE20 on vocals than the M88. I have to be about 8 or 9 inches away
due to a strong chest voice. The RE20 has EV's patented "variable D"
design that helps mitigate proximity effect. Definitely want one
eventually along with the SM7, a "grey" 421, and a 441.

Chris
Old 23rd January 2003
  #19
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov
Thanks sonic for the affirmation on the Soundstar MKII.

T. Alan, you can get much more "up close and personal" with an
RE20 on vocals than the M88. I have to be about 8 or 9 inches away
due to a strong chest voice. The RE20 has EV's patented "variable D"
design that helps mitigate proximity effect. Definitely want one
eventually along with the SM7, a "grey" 421, and a 441.

Chris
Thanks Chess. Looks as though the RE20 might be worth saving for.
Old 23rd January 2003
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by T. Alan Smith
Thanks Chess. Looks as though the RE20 might be worth saving for.
I believe the PL20 can be found cheaper and it's the same mic with different paint.
Old 23rd January 2003
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
SM-7

I think that the SM-7 and RE-20 are must have microphones. They sound good on so many sources.

I have been using the SM-7 for electric guitar and vox. I think it rocks on electric guitar amps. I use it on a valvestate marshall for a smooth compressed distortion and my fender blues Jr for a cleaner sort of raw tone that I like.

I did a vocal overdub not to long ago. It sat perfect in the mix. This is not always the case but it will surprise you from time to time. For preamps I have been using the VMP-2 and HV-3.

I have a couple MP1-L (mutant) preamps coming. Dale from OSA said that it will work really well with the SM-7 (and TLM-103). I am looking forward to test driving that combo.

As a side thought I also got a great chunky guitar sound using a fender strat, blues jr, M-88, and sytek stock channel as the signal path.

jason
Old 24th January 2003
  #22
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Right or wrong, I've seen some posts to the effect that the
quality control on the PL20 isn't quite up to the RE20.
I asked Jim Williams at Audio Upgrades about it once,
and his opinion was to go for the RE20.
Maybe somebody has more insight on this?

Chris

P.S. A good place to buy these types of mikes new is
www.bswonline.com
Old 24th January 2003
  #23
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
Can anyone explain me the rotary switch on the bottom of the 441? I know the 421 has it also... I bought a used 441 and I already set the switch in the position where it sounds best, BUT, I would like to know what do they mean.
Old 24th January 2003
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Chris, I think you might have seen my thoughts over at the homerecording bbs. I'll recap here for those not so forum addicted.

The PL series were sold through musical instrument retailers, with an expected usage on stage and on the road, wheras the RE series were sold through pro audio stores, with expected usage in studios and broadcast. I believe the difference in warranty was that the PL's had two years, the RE's a lifetime warranty. If you consider the expected use and abuse in each end arena, EV was likely just trying to cut their losses in mics run over by some dumb ape of a roadie. On the used market, it is entirely possible a PL was more babied in its life than an RE, though.

There is the notion that the lesser mics from a production run went to the PL line, and while this might be possible for the capsules if they pre-tested those, it wouldn't be likely for the whole mic, because it makes little sense to strip one down and refinish and rebadge it. Also, it is doubtful that EV supplied all those retailers with rejects they had on hand. There is so much anecdotal evidence on the forums of owners of both versions being unable to discern a difference that it is reasonable to think that in the majority of cases there is no difference. My strong suspicion is the warranty difference, which sounds like a sound way to limit warranty claims and costs, led to the commonplace of the quality difference.

When shopping used, sight unseen, the expectable past life might be at issue, but with an RE and PL of like condition, I expect negligable difference relative to that between to like RE's or two like PL's.

Bear
Old 24th January 2003
  #25
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks Bear, yes I was aware of your comments there.
Seems like you provided a very reasonable evaluation here.

Reminds me how car manufacturers can take an identical part for
two different cars they make that have a large value differential,
and charge more for the part when it has the expensive one's
name on it!

For someone on a budget, the Peavey PVM520i, with a street price
of $130 or less is the bang for the buck leader in LD dynamics IMHO.
Just a shade on the bright side of neutral in tone.

jeronimo, although I understand that the 421 and 441's go from
"M"=Music in English, to "S" Speech in English, perhaps the more
enlightened members here know how much bass is rolled off in
each position specifically. One click from "M" has always worked
the best for my vocals BTW.

Chris
Old 24th January 2003
  #26
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov
jeronimo, although I understand that the 421 and 441's go from "M"=Music in English, to "S" Speech in English...
If you speak Portugese like jeronimo, or any any language besides English, the mic will simply shut off. I've seen it happen a couple of times.


















of course I'm j/k
Old 25th January 2003
  #27
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well... they were marked "M" and "S" with the German "Musick"
and "Sprechen" in mind by Sennheiser as the original intent.
Tough as the translation may be.

Chris
Old 25th January 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
If you speak Portugese like jeronimo, or any any language besides English, the mic will simply shut off. I've seen it happen a couple of times.
Oh My God

That's a good one
Old 25th January 2003
  #29
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hope that works for Shakira too!
Most hotties should be seen and not heard.

Any favorite mic pre's with these dynamics?
Been using the Studio Projects VTB-1 with good results.

Chris
Old 25th January 2003
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Curious G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I really like the FMR RNP with dynamics in general and the re20/pl20/sm7 in particular.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5805 views: 1868842
Avatar for Drumsound
Drumsound 14 hours ago
replies: 62 views: 66434
Avatar for Alex Kretov
Alex Kretov 27th May 2019
replies: 1172 views: 261372
Avatar for Dr. Jule
Dr. Jule 3 days ago
replies: 60 views: 9857
Avatar for JaggerIF
JaggerIF 5th February 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump