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Tips on getting that modern hard rock sound?
Old 28th December 2002
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
nemisis633's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Someone said they were using a "hot plate" to bring the volume down. Is this similar to a marshall power brake?? and if so.. what's the name of the product you were using?

jon
Old 28th December 2002
  #32
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Geez what the hell happened to originality? Damn near every band that comes in here has the same amp, same guitar, same singer, they look like and dress like the band that just left, they all act the same (ACT tough and hard even though they are pusses . . to ACT like you don't care is IN these days . . but that takes CARING to act like you don't care *lol*) . . . . . . and they are all chopping up all the other bands for having no originality.

I personally HATE all bands like creed all the way to Limp Bizkit!!! The only new band I like is System of a Down and thats mostly due to Rick Rubin's amazing work on their record. I agree with you 100%, but there's nothing you can do about it, otherwise you'd all be out of the job, right?

Anyway, Knox wut amps and guitars do YOU like. I hate PRS, I am a gibson man myself. I cant make up my mind about wut amps I like though.
Old 28th December 2002
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by AgonizingpaiN
Anyway, Knox wut amps and guitars do YOU like. I hate PRS, I am a gibson man myself. I cant make up my mind about wut amps I like though.
I produced this girl's record not long ago (Steve Earl-ish) type thing. I told everyone that they could ONLY bring in guitars or basses like Kays, Framus, Vox, Gretsch . . stuff like that. The amps had to be one speaker, or tiny beat up strange combos . . . .(we liked the guitars or amps if we couldn't pronounce the names! Teisco . . . *smile*) . . . The old hollow body Kay sounded incredible!!

Alamo, Silvertone . . on and on. Maybe a one speaker Gibson pedal steel amp. National.

Man we had a blast! Everything seemed to have a personality and each had their very own color.

Of course that doesn't work for everything. For heavy rock stuff . . . I like an OLD Plexi. I REALLY like Vox AC30s or AC50s. Old English Hiwatt, Orange, 'some' Fenders.

For some reason nothing is coming to my mind as being something new that just kills me.

Believe it or not, I like a lot of things really . . . . I'm just sick of the same old same old VHT, Rectum on Fire. I would like to hear the amp Jules and Michael Wagener are talking about. I hated the new Randall someone brought in.

I guess I like things that are 'outside' the normal, and I like people that take chances. You can look at MTV today and see and hear very few people taking chances.

This guy brought in an old Marshall that had been beat damn near to death . . . . . and he had a YAMAHA cabinet!! I was getting ready to hate the **** out of his cabinet . . . . . it sounded really great! So who knows?
Old 28th December 2002
  #34
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I haven't spent much time one, but I never got the impression the Dual Rectifiers were inherently homgenizing amps, it's just the players who use them. It's like earlier Boogies had a bit of a reputation for doing the hair metal sound. My Boogie Quad preamp was actually owned by one of the tools in Stryper, but I don't sound at all hair metal when I use it.

In some cases it is the operator and not the gear which is generic and boring.

Bear
Old 28th December 2002
  #35
Gear Head
 
Lars FM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The question has been pretty much answered, PRS and Rectum-fryer. The funny part is to think how all metal guitar hero wannabees rushed out to buy JCM800 channel switching amps (the JCM800 versions of the older models are very cool and provide instant NWOBHM sound) when they came out in the early 80's, then skipped it for the preamp/poweramp rack thing, and now they are all hooked on Rectum-fryers in order to sound as generic as possible.
I agree on Laneys being a very good alternative, for a minimum budget the 80's AOR 50/100's has all the distortion and low end ooomph, anybody could wish for without being out of control, they go for as little as $200 in the US and sound infinitely better than a POD for any kind of metal or (HC) punk (rock).
Old 28th December 2002
  #36
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
I had a amp shootout once, and tested the Laney VH100 a Peavey Classic 50 2x12" combo and a Dual Rectifier... the Laney was the one that anyone liked.
It's not bad, but for sure it's the one with less character grudge
Old 29th December 2002
  #37
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Mike,
What mic pre/ channel strip you are recording guitars through ... Telefunken v72/76, 1073's??

Knox,
"Yea . . just think, you can get a Dual or Triple rectifier (rectum-flyer) and sound JUST like everybody else!! Get a Paul Reed Smith, drop your tuning . . get a singer that tries to sound like everyone else . . . and you are on your way to being exactly like everyone else!!!!"

Well **kin' said. It's rare but refreshing to produce a guitar band that has ORIGINAL ideas when it comes to amp's, guitars etc. Ok, there is something to be said for taking your latest favourite band's equipment, sounds & production as influences ... but I think most of the best artists are essentially original.

I hate the "Use this amp and Guitar only" approach to recording guitars/ heavy rock etc. I own a Marshall JMP, a 1960 4x12 celestion sloped quad, a great K100 Rivera Knucklehead, and an original silver face Fender Champ, but if the band uses say Randall's or Laney's (or whatever) and sound good live, then we go with that.

With micing I usually end up with a SM57 or 451 cm'd and (depending on the live room I'm using) a distant mic. Someone once said, "Distance makes depth." ... and it sure does. Even on heavy guitars I put a mic right out the back, as well, and then balance the two (remembering to check your phase). Really you shouldn't have to use EQ in the studio if the instruments sound right. It should all be done with the microphones. But see, everyone has gotten so carried away with over-compressed heavy D tuning or 7-string guitar CRAP dfegad and forgotten about dynamic range with guitars and most other tracks. My guitar-recording maxim goes "Clean Bright Warm guitar sounds over Distorted Distant Scooped sounds any day". Sure, if you have a particular flavour of extremely heavy metal then layer the cleaner overdrive sound until the required power and dynamics are achieved. AC/DC's guitars are actually quite clean (and are usually JMP Marshall's tracked tight as all **uk!!).
__________________
Regards,
Wayne Gardner
Producer/ Engineer
Forestville Sydney Australia
Email: [email protected]
Internet: http://www.gtamusic.com

"My fingerpicking is a sort of cross between Pete Seeger, Earl Scruggs, and total incompetence."
-Jimmy Page-
Old 29th December 2002
  #38
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
correction:

SM57 or Sennheiser 421 cm'd

tut
Old 29th December 2002
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Mike Tholen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by WayneG
Mike,
What mic pre/ channel strip you are recording guitars through ... Telefunken v72/76, 1073's??
check this thread...https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=2134
Old 29th December 2002
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi pros, i am also interested in hearing about how 7dust achieves its monstruous guitar/bass combination sound. The drums aint too bad either!
Any info? Thanks.
Old 29th December 2002
  #41
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, AC/DC have typically used barely any distortion in the guitar sound, usually just enough to add a little bite. A lot of Zeppelin is the same way, like the Immigrant Song, that most revered of headbanger sacred texts. In a way it's like the Michael ("No Talent Ass Clown") Bolton syndrome in singers: louder does not necessarily mean more intense.

Bear
Old 29th December 2002
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Gone Fission
Yeah, AC/DC have typically used barely any distortion in the guitar sound, usually just enough to add a little bite. A lot of Zeppelin is the same way, like the Immigrant Song, that most revered of headbanger sacred texts. In a way it's like the Michael ("No Talent Ass Clown") Bolton syndrome in singers: louder does not necessarily mean more intense.
Plus . .the first Zep record was small amps.
Old 30th December 2002
  #43
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
Guys... not everybody is looking for a Zepp or AC/DC guitar sound :eek:
Old 30th December 2002
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Looking for constructive responses here ...
Old 30th December 2002
  #45
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
No, not everybody is looking for those sounds, but those are references of heaviness to a lot of people. Most guitarists who think they are pegging the tone they remembered from a record are playing with a lot more distortion.

One approach to making sure it's the playing and not the amp that is heavy is to back off of the usual overdrive setting by at least a number on the knob setting, if not much more. Preamp distortion for guitar is typically very compressed, so it does tend to homogenize the dynamics of the part. Badass playing through a clean amp sounds more exciting than pedestrian playing through a turbo charged amp.

Bear
Old 30th December 2002
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
Guys... not everybody is looking for a Zepp or AC/DC guitar sound :eek:
My point is, not all BIG guitar sounds come from BIG amps. I have a Pro Junior here that many times I have had a client with a BIG ASS rig that can't seem to find a good sound with it . . . . I will go in the studio (they will be in the control room playing). Un-plug his rig, plug in the Pro Junior, come back in the control room . . bring up the fader, and many times I hear . . "MAN that is HUGE! Whatever you did to my amp is happening!"
Old 30th December 2002
  #47
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Is the pro junior new?

Any mods to it?

What to look out for?

Thanks in advance!

Old 30th December 2002
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Is the pro junior new?
Jules . . it's been out for years. It is basically a rip off of an old Champ Amp. I have had mine for a long time. It's tube. Mine is blonde, now they are black.

I don't want you to think that this is going to smoke some new trendy 200 watt amp. It's not. Though I will say . . there have been many times that it did. For whatever reason.

It has a volume knob and a tone knob. Basically it does one thing . . . gives you 'crunch'. I used to tell people it was Billy Gibbons in a box. With the right mic, pre, eq combination and scooping some mids . . . you can get very modern sounds out of it . . though it was more 'vintage' intended. I use it a lot! BTW . . it's the blond amp on top. I feel it would be more of a 'stacked' rhythm track sound for something you would do as oppposed to the main rhythm track. I have used it for 'parts' and solos a lot as well. For an old vintage rhythm track sound. . I have used it by itself MANY times.

Also . . . the Sovtek in the picture gets used a lot around here. The Mesa bottom and the Sovtek have been used on many records where guys had big rigs sitting in a corner . . as has the Pro Junior. There are other amps here too of course . . but as you can see . . these just got used as they were out. I use the Sovtek for re-amping as well.

I can't say to you that the guy in Creed is going to be falling over himself to play my Pro Junior or my Sovtek . . then again who knows? They are simply other sounds that I find usable at times.
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Tips on getting that modern hard rock sound?-4jules.jpg  
Old 30th December 2002
  #49
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
My point was just to say that most of the bands that are looking for a "modern" rock sound is made by young people and many times they didn't even listen to Zepp...
I'm a drummer myself but I do love guitars and I would try a lot of stuff to make my guitar sound have some personality (If I could play guitars ), but many, many people come here and say:"Hey I want my guitar to sound like Linkin Park"... there is no use for Zepp tones in their music, is there?
Old 30th December 2002
  #50
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
Ohh, and I do agree about the small amps, big sound thing!!!
Old 30th December 2002
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
My point was just to say that most of the bands that are looking for a "modern" rock sound is made by young people and many times they didn't even listen to Zepp...
I'm a drummer myself but I do love guitars and I would try a lot of stuff to make my guitar sound have some personality (If I could play guitars ), but many, many people come here and say:"Hey I want my guitar to sound like Linkin Park"... there is no use for Zepp tones in their music, is there?
Sure . . the thing that bothers me is . . why do all the new bands WANT to sound the same? They almost all have that same guitar sound and almost all the singers try to sound like Eddie in Peal Jam or Lane in Alice in Chains. It is a conscious effort on their part. If you go back in time . . who "naturally" sounded like those singers in the old days? Then one or two come along that have THAT sound . . all of a sudden EVERYBODY "just happens to sound like that". Where is the originality in bands, guitar tones, and singers these days if everyone chooses to make an effort to sound just like everyone else?

btw . . it happened in the 80s too . . with hair bands. Though not as much as these days.
Old 30th December 2002
  #52
Lives for gear
 
bassmac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
. . why do all the new bands WANT to sound the same?
It's really no different than any other segment of society. There simply happens to be a lot more followers on this planet than leaders.


Old 30th December 2002
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by bassmac
It's really no different than any other segment of society. There simply happens to be a lot more followers on this planet than leaders.
Plus . . . It doesn't help that record companies are only signing bands that all sound the same . . putting out an album of sucky crap, but one single that sells. Then they drop the band. There is no A & R to speak of, so bands can find themselves.
Old 30th December 2002
  #54
Lives for gear
 
jeronimo's Avatar
That all true! It's been a while since I've heard any new band that I liked... I get all the CD's to hear the production/tech side of things...
By the way, have anyone heard the latest from Taproot?? I thougt that Laney Stanley himself was back from the other side to sing in that record...
Old 30th December 2002
  #55
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
That all true! It's been a while since I've heard any new band that I liked... I get all the CD's to hear the production/tech side of things...
By the way, have anyone heard the latest from Taproot?? I thougt that Laney Stanley himself was back from the other side to sing in that record...
A band just left . . they stopped by to do 'tech pre production' with me for their recording coming up (I always do that if I can) . . . . . what everyone is using, how they want to track, etc.

Guitarist . . .Triple Rectum Fryer! AGAIN!
I didn't even bother asking what guitar. I think I know what it is already.

The funny thing is . . you ask what their rig is . . . . and they always say Dual or Triple Rectiier and look at you like you are suppose to be impressed, as if you have never heard or seen one! *smile*

What makes me think the singer is going to sound like Eddie Vedder?
Old 30th December 2002
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
That all true! It's been a while since I've heard any new band that I liked...
I had high hopes for the Audioslave cd cause I think Cornell is a mother**** singer . . it sure let me down. No Soundgarden eh?
Old 30th December 2002
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Plus . . . It doesn't help that record companies are only signing bands that all sound the same . . putting out an album of sucky crap, but one single that sells. Then they drop the band. There is no A & R to speak of, so bands can find themselves.
You would think that the first label exec that realized this would be in a position to make a big buck.

BTW, with the band are you thinking ESP or Schecter?
Old 31st December 2002
  #58
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
You would think that the first label exec that realized this would be in a position to make a big buck.
Wasn't that what SubPop, SST, and legion others did, though on a smaller scale? I'm eager for the revolution here, because we are once again in an era of stale, formulaic corporate rock. Like the Mercenary Audio t-shirt says, "Corporate rock still sucks. What are you going to do about it?"
Old 31st December 2002
  #59
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The sound depends on many things, not the least of which is the skill of the player. The Pantera guitarist uses Randall solid state heads and gets an amazing sound. For guys that don't play super tight I use a Dual Rectifier that lives in the studio. The Rivera Knuckleheads sound great too. Many guys benefit from high output pickups like EMG's to give an edge to their playing. Other guys are able to get it from their fingers. The trick is to know what your "go to" setups are for different skill levels...
Old 31st December 2002
  #60
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Go the mighty Knucklehead.
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