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Live's Throwing Copper - Anything & Everything About
Old 6th June 2008
  #1
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Live's Throwing Copper - Anything & Everything About

First off, I'll have to say that this is one of my top 5 albums of all time - any genre, any era. Production A+, Engineering A+, Songwriting A+, Performances A+, Artwork A+, etc. I want to know anything and everything about this timeless album full of fantastic rock tunes (and tones).

Don't you just love the aura and ambient sounds that seem to surround the instruments? Great rooms? Oh, yeah! Great gear? For sure! Inquiring minds want to know!

Anyone care to fill me in? Please site sources if possible. Oh, and no need for Wikipedia posts - been there, done that.

Thanks,

David J.
Old 6th June 2008
  #2
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
damn memory

I concur with your praises first off..

I have always loved the production behind that album..

I'm pretty sure that album was done with a Roland 2480 in a basement...tutt... probably not..

One of my mentors way back when was a good friend of the main engineer for that album and I remember him mentioning that, but nothing specific. Sorry mane... should of put the pipe down and listened every once in a while back then...
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
rainsinvelvet's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
That album had a huge effect on the way I tend to mix records..
I always thought that is sounded great and expensive for lack of a better term.

It would be nice to hear more about the way it was made.

ERic
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
It was

recorded here..
Pachyderm Studio
Just tracked some drums there a couple of months ago. It's a beautiful place, great rooms etc. Creepy-ass indoor pool, too.

Last edited by optionshift3; 6th June 2008 at 12:33 AM.. Reason: damned keywords
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, that is a beautiful studio. Frank Lloyd Wright vibes all over that place!

dj
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #6
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I heard or read that the guitar sound on the big hit single was a good example of multiple guitar amps and cabs all going at once..

Like over 10 of em...

But then you know, stories grow over time...

Well OK THEN I heard they used like 13 amps or something...

And I believed the story...

Someone who knows tell the story.... Please..
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Grumblefoot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
great snare sound, killer vibe with the drummer and bass player.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ok, it's late and I'm really digging for information on this album. Google has left me flat . . . nothing. So, I thought, WTH - I'll send Lou Giordano a message on Myspace (out of the blue - don't know him at all) and see if he'll chime in here. I'll cross my fingers.

dj
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@moracspace

Only love here for Mental Jewelry as well. "Brothers Unaware" is one of my favorite Live tunes. The lyrics, vibe, production - everything fits perfect. Not the same guitar sound as Copper, but you can hear the "roots," if you will. Other great tunes on that disc too. "Riverside," "Operation," "Waterboy," "Anthem" - all very nice.

Love to hear what you've got on that album.

dj
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Lighting Crashes is such a great tune. It's one of the ones I pull out fairly regularly for my listening sessions. A little agressively mixed maybe, but great sounding. The panning guitar kind of pulls your head sideways as it hits the center point though, due I guess to a phase cancellation thing that hits one side of your head. And yeh, great cracking snare.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Great sounding album for sure, and the music and melodies are very good, but man, some of Ed's lyrics are just awful. Like that Waitress song, for example. He can be a bit heavy-handed to say the least. On Mental Jewelery I skip songs because the lyrics make me groan so much: heavy-handed and preachy as hell. I guess he got better with age.

Anyway, excellent production values and good tones that aged very well on TC.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
White Discussion impacted me alot, I love that album. Huge talent.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
rainsinvelvet's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The video for 'white discussion' was filmed at the Wilson Theater here in Fresno,CA.
I was at the show and it was quite amazing. They played SOooo well and had an energy that just couldn't be ignored. ahh, the 90's heh

ERic
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Live is comin' out here (hawaii) for a 4th of July festival on the marine corps base...open to the public. I've never seen them before, so I'm STOKED!

Not only for me, but my 11yr old boy and 7yr old girl (drummer / gtr player in training) are gonna be here for the summer, so I'm takin' them too! I really hope a heavy dose of good live concerts gets them moving more solidly in the musical direction. Their mom won't push 'em in the right way, so I'm diggin' for ideas....either way, it should be an awesome concert!
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For me the clinchers are "TBD" and "Pillar of Davidson."

"TBD" is one of those late-night, a few beers down, lights off, cranked speakers, just before delirium, rockers. That song just hits you. And the guitar tones on that? Sheesh. When it gets dirty - you can just feel the energy.

"PoD" is just a great tune start to finish. Great build, melody, counter-melody, arrangement, everything. Perfect.

dj
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I'm pretty sure "The Meltdown" from the album that came after Throwing Copper (The Distance to Here?) is the perfect pop-rock song ever.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #17
try also Fuel - Something like human album.. some similarities also good production.

cheers
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #18
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrev ➑️
Ok, it's late and I'm really digging for information on this album. Google has left me flat . . . nothing. So, I thought, WTH - I'll send Lou Giordano a message on Myspace (out of the blue - don't know him at all) and see if he'll chime in here. I'll cross my fingers.

dj
Hello rockrev & gearslutz folks, I'll try my best to fill y'all in on as much as I remember. Recording was done at Pachyderm in August of 1993. Jerry Harrison produced. When I arrived at the studio, there were giant road cases of his gear which turned out to be a 16-channel Pro Tools rig, the biggest one available. It had 442 interfaces and ran on a Mac II FX. The primary recording medium was a pair of Studer 827s, and the Pro Tools was used for a few (less than you can count on one hand) drum fixes and comping of various overdubs. The basic track of every song was recorded live, with all members performing. There were enough iso booths to keep the drums alone in the big room. Lots of mics on drums, 421 inside kick, D12 outside, 57 & 451 on top snare, 57 underneath, 421s top & bottom toms, close & far room mics. Reference vocals were used quite a bit in the comps; Ed felt that they had more spirit than some of the overdub takes. If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of the pick on the strings of his electric guitar. The vocal mic was a large diaphram tube condenser, either an AKG C12 or Telefunken 251, through a John Hardy preamp into an 1176 then straight to tape. I had to ride the gain on the Hardy constantly to get good levels, and the variable gain pot worked well for that. His amp was on the other side of the control room, connected with regular guitar cables. There was awful hum, and Jerry Harrison was proud to show off a prototype copy of DINR, which sort of got rid of the hum but added some bizarre anti-aliasing artifacts (broken glass tinkling sounds). There may have been a few 2" edits, but most of the songs are one take continuous. Guitar overdubs were split to three amps, a Marshall, Fender and Vox AC-30.

The Neve 8068 was not in good shape and needed a bit of pounding to get the noise out. I'm amazed that most of the problems were in the monitor section and never made it to tape. I have to say this was one of the most enjoyable recording sessions of my career, where everyone does their job well and you actually go out to dinner each night. All band members performed their parts in a few takes, they were amazingly easy to record. One night during guitar overdubs, there was an unbelievable electrical storm and through the big picture windows of the studio, the recording room flashed like a strobe light for hours. And no, we were not recording Lightning Crashes, it was The Damn At Otter Creek.

If there anything else I can fill in, let me know.

Lou G.
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, wicked cool info.

Thanks so much for chiming in. I LOVE this place!
Old 6th June 2008 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thank you Lou! Awesome!

dj
Old 7th June 2008 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
macgee's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
that's a really great run down, thanks for taking the time to share this info

if anything else comes to mind, jot i down

cheers, g
Old 10th June 2008 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Head
 
Bsig's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Lou,

You forgot to mention how important my beige 1967 Plymouth Fury III 2-door was to the overall experience of the Throwing Copper recording!

Cheers - long time ...

Brent
Old 10th June 2008 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Brent's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I LOVE this CD! Thanks for sharing Lou!
Old 10th June 2008 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the info Lou! Awesome post.

What's your favorite way to do acoustic guitars right now?
Old 12th June 2008 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Since it's been a few days, I thought I'd round-off this thread by posting some info Lou shared with me via email. I'll exclude my questions (his answers make them pretty clear).

Quote:
I honestly can't remember if we used a click or not. Chad Gracey was so
awesome it didn't seem necessary. Also, since everyone cut the basic
together, there was natural push & pull that a click would have destroyed.

The bass sound comes from Pat Dalheimer's hands, and his great instrument.
Of course, there was a DI and amp, but I don't think it was anything
special, probably an SVT. I think I used the Neve preamps and squashed it
through an LA-3A or 1176.

Chad Taylor's basics, and all the guitar overdubs were cut through the 3-amp
setup. I think we blended the tracks as we cut them, since they were going
to tape. The guitar ambience is added in the mix. [I forgot to mention
that there were two Studer 827s slaved together to allow 46 tracks.]

The overall sound is the work of Tom Lord Alge. The raw tracks sound
nothing like the mix. He took it to an entirely different level. My hat's
off to him. -Lou G.
Thanks again, Lou!

dj
Old 20th July 2010 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Thought I'd resurrect this thread to see if anyone knows what drums the drummer Chad Gracey used on this album? I am mainly interested in the snare sound.

Thanks.
Old 20th July 2010 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Giordano (indirectly, via 3rd party email) ➑️
The overall sound is the work of Tom Lord Alge. The raw tracks sound
nothing like the mix
. He took it to an entirely different level. My hat's
off to him. -Lou G.
Not to dismiss Lou's invaluable contribution (love ya Lou, how's it going?) but fwiw, based on what I know of both Lou's & TLA's prior work, I've always suspected this. Almost makes you wonder whether anyone in the camp was surprised and/or disappointed by the difference between raw tracks & final mix.
Old 20th July 2010 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Daedalus77's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I was blown away by this record, as well, when it first came out. To concur with a previous poster, it just sounded massive and polished compared to other contemporary records.

I also remember the album being the first where, in hindsight, I really heard the effects of the beginnings of the so-called "loudness war." It just seemed much louder and limited. Maybe it's just me. But I remember comparing it to the first (major-label) DMB album (Under the Table and Dreaming), which came out about the same time, and thinking the Live record seemed much more squashed. Anyone else feel that?
Old 21st July 2010 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
msquared's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus77 ➑️
I also remember the album being the first where, in hindsight, I really heard the effects of the beginnings of the so-called "loudness war." It just seemed much louder and limited.
I remember that as well. While I loved the songs and thought the performances were great, at the time I found myself not listening to it as much because of the sonics.
Old 21st July 2010 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
One thing that amazes me about the way that record sounds is the fact that the drummer, as I understand it, used that one Pearl piccolo snare that so many ska and other bands were using in the '90s, yet it sounds huge. Ever since I found out that fact about the snare (assuming it's true), I've wondered how they managed to make it sound that way.
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