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Creating that greasy, fat hip-hop sub?
Old 1st December 2002
  #1
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jazzius's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Creating that greasy, fat hip-hop sub?

Can someone give me some suggested tools/tricks on putting that big fat hiphop sub sound in my mixes?

Examples would be that Battlecat choon on the new Busta album, or some of those Bob Power mixes on the Common album.

I know that half my problem is the producers i'm mixing...they just don't understand about selecting (or creating) the right sounds (for instance, i just mixed something where the bass was a sine wave with the lowest frequency being 75hz...i could find no way to make it FAT).

Same thing goes for kicks, snares and samples....and of course, most of these guys are very precious about their ****ty sounds.


So any words of advice for hyping up these amateur productions, or shouldn't i knock myself out trying to polish a turd?
Old 1st December 2002
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
DBX Subharmonic synth. It can actually be overused, but if you don't go overboard it can work wonders. Ani Difranco used to use one live before she had a bassist, so, yeah, it'll give you an extra octave.

If the frequencies are already there, the coolest shaping on the lows that I'm hearing is with an analog synth type low-pass filter. IMO this gives the right low-fi all bass vibe. If you actually need a bit more articulation, run a mult and mix a little unfiltered sound in with the filtered sound.

Bear
Old 1st December 2002
  #3
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Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Summit EQP-200b
Daking EQ (ultra tight bass)
Waves Renaissance Bass


Or send the mixes to me........
Old 2nd December 2002
  #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gone Fission
DBX Subharmonic synth. It can actually be overused, but if you don't go overboard it can work wonders.
Bear
We've got one of those round here somewhere. I'll dig it out and try it on a mix i'm doing tommorrow.

I'd be interested in how good some of the US stuff sounds before it goes to the mix. I just get the feeling that people like Rockwilder know what the hell they're doing technically, so they have great sounds before they get to the mix stage....fat kicks......nice, layered snares, full frequency range productions.....how can i compete with that sound when my producers don't know there arse from their elbows????yuktyy
Old 2nd December 2002
  #5
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Quote:
[i]Or send the mixes to me........ [/B]
To Scandanavia???!!!....i want BEP, not Britney!
Old 2nd December 2002
  #6
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Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
To Scandanavia???!!!....i want BEP, not Britney!
yuktyy You have probably heard three of my sleazy pop production on the radio and seen the videos.....IΒ΄ve produced K*otic you know......

However hereΒ΄s some interresting gear I mix with;
Euphonix Cs-3000, 96 faders, 48 dynamic, cube
Protools HD, 48 analog outs
MCI 2", Sony 3324 x 2
TC 6000,5000,3000
Lexicon 480 x 2
Summit EQP-200b x 5
SSL stereocomp
Daking EQ
Distressors
Trakkers
HEDD
Quested 4x12
bla,bla,bla,bla,bla

/Mr. Gearzlut
Old 2nd December 2002
  #7
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jazzius's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Man, and with all that gear, that's the best you could come up with?
Old 2nd December 2002
  #8
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Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DonΒ΄t shoot the messenger boy, shoot the band and the record company.....grggt
(to be honest, the K*otic stuff I mixed completely in protools - just kill me please) heh
Old 2nd December 2002
  #9
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
why don't you take a synth sub bass patch, find a note that's in the key of the song and that doesn't mess up the bass line, and trigger that synth with the kick?
Old 2nd December 2002
  #10
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
When I work with Rockwilder, he usually supplies pretty beefy sounds. I usually concentrate on frequencies as opposed to using a DBX 120 to create something that isn't there.
With BEP, I have used "Pitchdoctor" to add a lower octave on the bass tracks, esspecially when Will.I.Am uses a really cool moog sound, but it just needs to push more air. You can hear examples on the Will.I.Am "Request Line" remix, and "I AM" off Will's Lost Change solo record. When I use this method, I record it to a new track, nudge it forward (because of the sample delays) and add it in to taste. A little pultec on this track goes a long way (and sometimes I'll roll off at 20-30 hertz so I don't go overboard).
Old 2nd December 2002
  #11
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
And I know I've said it before, but I love using my Forat F16 to add a reinforcement kick (similar to soundreplacer, BUT...) tuned to the key of the song like X Hip hop's method.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #12
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jazzius's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
cheers all ......e-cue, i've just sussed who you are.......i'm gonna be picking your brains alot (if ya don't mind).

It sounds like you get pretty tricky in the mix.......how long do you normally take to wrap a mix up?..........at the moment, i'm happy with my mixes, but the problem is they are taking, on average, 3 days! (and of course i'm not charging 3 days).
Old 3rd December 2002
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
The DBX was of course suggested as a band aid. If they're that precious about their sounds, it's a pretty decent attempt to look like a genius fixing them with low effort. But fixing it before the mix is always preferable.

E-cue, I'm not so clued in. I'll pour over some of your posts soon. However, I think I know people you might have worked with. Know Miles Tackett? One of the most insanely talented musicians I've ever seen. Not enough cello in funk.

Bear
Old 4th December 2002
  #14
no ssl yet
Guest
How about ecue as guest moderator? He mixed some of my favorite producers' work and would be well versed in ptools mixing as well as out of the box solutions, and comparisons of the two.
Old 4th December 2002
  #15
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3rdpath's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
why don't you take a synth sub bass patch, find a note that's in the key of the song and that doesn't mess up the bass line, and trigger that synth with the kick?
and i thought that was my secret weapon....damn.

might as well spill that the ms2000 does the job quite well. throw in a slight midi filter change in the chorus and you got some bad "juicy doubles".
Old 4th December 2002
  #16
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Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The dbx Sub Harmonic Synthesizer is a cool trick. . . . . . . sometimes. I use it from time to time and I don't do hip hop.

Mult the bass or kick, (whatever it is you are trying to get the low end on) . . . . . . . . . if it's bass, take one channel out to a guitar distortion box like a Rat or something better, like a Tube Screamer (yea I know all about level mis-matches) . . . . bring the channel up, just enough to roll on a SLIGHT amount of distortion (you may have to gate it to match length and to clean it up) and on another (bass / kick) mult / split, go to the dbx sub, compress the piss out of it and bring it up in another channel.

BE CAREFUL!! If you HEAR IT . . it is probably too much! It's when you mute the channel and you notice the thump in your chest is gone . . . THAT'S when you have the right amount. Of course, you have to play with the compression, eq and the balances. The distortion is to put some 'bite'. This is simply a rough idea to get you started. Of course you will have to play around with it.

Sometimes I REALLY like what it does. I slid a small amount under a stacked drop D guitar the other day and it sounded insane! Sometimes I hate what it does . . . as there are times it doesn't sound "natural" . . . BIG suprise . . . it's not!
Old 4th December 2002
  #17
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🎧 15 years
I use a lot of compression, a little bit of distortion plugs, and occasionally, eq before compression. If you need to eq it though, it's likely that you're using the wrong source file. I also use those subharmonic plugs occasionally. Sometimes I use sinewaves, and compressify them for an attack and a big sustain. That's layered with another kick above it, of course.

The Mackie HR824s have their sucky qualities, but a positive is definetly their overamplified bass. I can hear the lows very well with them. If you don't have a sub, or speakers with good bass, perhaps get a sub. That way you can discern whether or not your kick rumbles, thumps, whunks, booms, farts, or just clicks.

I bought a DBX 120-xds a while ago but I need fuarking rack ears for it! There's no space for it anywhere in my studio, but I have a rackspace reserved. Anyone know where I can get rack ears for my old 120xds?
Old 4th December 2002
  #18
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cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Anyone know where I can get rack ears for my old 120xds?
I think that Musicians Service Center may have them
408 297 7532 www.musicianservice.com
Old 4th December 2002
  #19
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by cram
I think that Musicians Service Center may have them
408 297 7532 www.musicianservice.com

Thanks Tom. I called up DBX twice before about this. The first time I called, someone told me, "Sure we got em, what's your credit card number, we'll send em out". I didn't buy them because I wanted to check local stores first. The stores didn't have them, so when I called back DBX, I spoke with a few people. I think I spoke to you too actually. Someone told me to check with musician service, and I tried them, but they didn't have it either.

The first person from DBX told me that the part number was "DBX-KIT". Ideas anyone?
Old 4th December 2002
  #20
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cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hmmmm...

I know we don't have any showing in my parts stock. Let me see if we have any lying around in customer service. Sometimes they hoard weird stuff that is out of the system. I'm thinking they might, especially if someone upstairs told you they had some.

Discontinued stuff can be a bit of a search so bear with me.
Old 4th December 2002
  #21
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Has anyone tried the new Waves hardware Maxxbass? I think it just came out for like $300 and change and was wondering if it would "make it foonky".
Old 5th December 2002
  #22
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cram's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Faeflora,

I found some (pt# dbxacc), e-mail me privately with your contact info and phone number and I'll get it out to you.
Old 6th December 2002
  #23
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
How about ecue as guest moderator? He mixed some of my favorite producers' work and would be well versed in ptools mixing as well as out of the box solutions, and comparisons of the two.
Good idea.
Old 6th December 2002
  #24
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David R.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mix in a 808 kick sample on the kick. Easy to do with midi tracks. If it is not low enough, pitch it down. You will know it is right when you put on some shades and a doo rag and start making up gang symbols with your fingers.
Old 25th June 2003
  #25
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Deja V.U.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
Has anyone tried the new Waves hardware Maxxbass? I think it just came out for like $300 and change and was wondering if it would "make it foonky".
Anyone? I haven't even seen one of these units yet.
Old 25th June 2003
  #26
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
Has anyone tried the new Waves hardware Maxxbass? I think it just came out for like $300 and change and was wondering if it would "make it foonky".
i've used the plug-in versions of maxx bass and ren bass...i EASILY overdone...but it definitly will add life to your lows
Old 29th June 2003
  #27
Guest
Guest
I personally have not been able to get something I liked out of the RTAS Maxxbass.
I am curious why no one has mentioned what I think is one of the great "bad" kik fixes. Please school me if there is something inherently wrong with doing this but, here goes:
Assuming your in or using or synced to a DAW (I do this in PT)
1.add new track
2. add signal generator as first insert
3. set SG to sine at 55-65Hz (depends on song/effect desired)
4. Place gate (PT gate is fine for this) as second insert
5. set side chain input to gate as Kik drum track.
6. adjust gate and freq to taste.

This can go from wicked 808 to a nice tight Rock gut punch.
I set the freq first with long hold on the gate to get the tuning right. Then set the release and hold to the desired effect.

This has saved me from some really poorly tracked/tuned drums.
And it is fast.

If this doesn't work.

"Sound replacer"


DPasch
Old 29th June 2003
  #28
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by dpasch
I personally have not been able to get something I liked out of the RTAS Maxxbass.
I am curious why no one has mentioned what I think is one of the great "bad" kik fixes. Please school me if there is something inherently wrong with doing this but, here goes:
Assuming your in or using or synced to a DAW (I do this in PT)
1.add new track
2. add signal generator as first insert
3. set SG to sine at 55-65Hz (depends on song/effect desired)
4. Place gate (PT gate is fine for this) as second insert
5. set side chain input to gate as Kik drum track.
6. adjust gate and freq to taste.

This can go from wicked 808 to a nice tight Rock gut punch.
I set the freq first with long hold on the gate to get the tuning right. Then set the release and hold to the desired effect.

This has saved me from some really poorly tracked/tuned drums.
And it is fast.

If this doesn't work.

"Sound replacer"


DPasch
The only thing 'wrong' with this, for me at least, is that it reminds me of a sound I was getting a long time ago, and usually sounds dated to my ears. The last time I did it, I threw lo-fi after the gate and got a little more saturation out of it.

When I do this, I usually send the kick pre fader to the key and time adjust the o.g. kick to whatever sample delay you get from the sig gen (I usually used Gen X which I have presets for each note in terms of hertz) and the gate (and the attack on the gate which I usually keep kind of big so you don't get clicks). Then I nudge the kick track forward accordingly so it doesn't influence the feel of the song. Just tightens them up more.
Old 29th June 2003
  #29
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jazzius's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i think the problem with this kind of fix is it gives the kick a steady pitch........that's ok if it's what you want but i prefer kicks which keep on moving downwards into the sub-sonic region....course it depends on the choon..

...i'm starting to think of kicks and snares as having the richness of an entire symphony orchestra...........bonkers!
Old 1st July 2003
  #30
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The MPCist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ya I tried it

Quote:
Originally posted by XHipHop
Has anyone tried the new Waves hardware Maxxbass? I think it just came out for like $300 and change and was wondering if it would "make it foonky".
Don't buy it. It's absolutely no good for what you want to do! Believe me, we got that, Aphex Big Bottom, BBE, DBX120xp, everything but the best way is to change the source or add to it, whatever.

Do it like this:

1. Seeing they're HipHop producers and all, they should be using MPCs, have them layer an extra 808 kik (make sure the tuning fits the tune) along with their regular kik. Have it tracked separately, of course.

2. Mult the 808 kick to two channels. One, compress the s*it out of it, and the other just kinda slightly compressed. Mix to taste.

There U got Ur phatass kik!
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