Quantcast
my drummer sucks! - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
my drummer sucks!
Old 30th November 2002
  #1
Gear Head
 
snapper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
my drummer sucks!

Well I have finally gotten my studio together with a radar 24 with nyquist converters, a nice analog console, great mics and outboard gear and a new computer with a uad-1 and cubase sx. I finally got to start tracking some songs for my band and we started laying down the drum tracks. I'm getting great sounds but really bad performances from the drummer. I has become apparent from the scrutiny of the rcording process that he really sucks. We really dont notice so much when we are playing together. I dont have the time or patience to weed through new drummers and may try to make my own drums. I dont have any drumming experience and dont have any drum programing experience. I am hoping someone could give me advise about creating realistic drum tracks using loops or? I listened to some demo's of " drum kit from hell" , " discrete drums", and some others and they sound pretty good. But could I actually use these to make some convincing drum tracks. Im afraid it would be tough to get them to suit the song. I have no clue what to look for in format or sequencer to arrange them in of if I am just getting in over my head here. I downloaded demo's of fruity loops and acid and they look like they would take some time to get a grasp on. I am just confusing myself at this point and need some guidance.
Old 30th November 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
bassmac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Since you're already getting good sounds... I'd just crank up a click track, and try to get some good usable loops from your drummer. (verse, chorus, etc.) Repeat them across the song, and mix in some fills here and there to keep it real. It will fit the song better, and be easier than starting over with those CD's... which take some time to learn how to use convincingly.
Old 30th November 2002
  #3
Gear Head
 
snapper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
click tracks of all kinds for two hours and it was a mess. I went in thinking it would take quite a bit of editing but he doesnt play anything that compliments the song. He's in la la land.
Old 30th November 2002
  #4
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
sometimes in the studio you have to make the drummer really simplify. if he is simple and still way out... he just sucks, but at least its easier to edit it.

click track trick:
sequence the chord progressions [really jus the root note and make it a bass sound] in quarter note beats, so its not just a hat click or cowbell whatever, its something "musical"... you can also play around with going from quarter notes during the verse and eighth notes during the chorus to "pick up" the tempo while not really making it faster. emphasize the 1 and 3 on the pattern. make the 1 the loudest and the 3 between the 1 and 2-4 in volume.
Old 30th November 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree with Alpha . . . . make the click more then a 1/4 note or 1/8th note. Make a percussion groove for him to play to or try what Alpha says.

In some places . . I think it's legal to choke a drummer. It IS where I am from. It may not make him play more in time, but it makes you FEEL better about his sucking.

Old 30th November 2002
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i like lead pipes upside the drummers head. if they cant find the beat... they get beat.
Old 30th November 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
tommyd's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The lead pipe up-side MY head always gets my attention! But seriously, I agree with Alpha. Give the drummer something that sounds more like he's playing with a percussionist as opposed to "chinese click torture". As a drummer I find it much easier to play with. When I'm tracking , I will set up a pattern on a drum machine something like this:
for a 4/4 rock what-have-you
16th note shaker or closed hi-hat pattern
8th note tambourine
1/4 note side stick with accent on "1"
fool around with the blend until the drummer is comfortable.
With a set up like this I don't find myself concentrating on the "click" so much as playing along with the groove. It's much easier (for me anyway) to lay back on verses and play "on top" of the chorus / bridge / solo, etc. If the drummer doesn't have a drum machine, send him home to practice with yours. YMMV, but I think you will see an improvement in his overall playing, and in fairly short order. Good luck! TommyD
( And if that doesn't work, send me your tracks minus drums and I'll do em' for you heh )
Old 1st December 2002
  #8
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
When "firing" the bad one and hiring a good one isn't an option... you can give the drummer a set of guides he might be able to follow... shaker is good with a tamborine hit on two and four is usually a good pattern...

The map out the song... how many bars to the intro, the verse, the chorus, etc... have him play the song. If you get a good intro, great. if you get a good bar or two in the verse, lift them and loop them. Same with the chorus, bridge, etc. If he plays fills between sections, try to keep the origianl fills, if he ****s up the fills, have him play them again and again until you get something acceptable then insert with applicable.

FWIW, firing the drummer and hiring one that will be able to play the song without all the editing agita is always preferable in my book... but it ain't always possible.

Best of luck
Old 1st December 2002
  #9
Gear Head
 
snapper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well all right then, I will give it another go. I guess I'll set up some more variation in the click track and see if we can go through it by measures. But were talking about someone that claims he doent even need drum lessons. He "learns from watching other drummers". Thats fine and dandy if he would actually "learn". Ive been playing guitar for 20 years but that doent mean I cant benefit from lessons. I'd take them until I was 80 years old if was still inclined to play at that age. I've played with some really talented and intelligent drummers before and would love to just hire one at this point. But after the amount of cash Ive spent I'm getting in way to deep as it is. I just want some good drumming god damm it.
Old 1st December 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
" we really dont notice so much when we are playing together "

that shows that you had your fun playing with him . or were yall totally trashed heh . its not a good thing for most musicians if they get " scaned " ... < the 3d bassdrum wasnt on the click , each snare sounds sounding different , you dont hit the hats with the kick , you toms arent in tune > . there might be to much stuff you wanna change right now yall never had a eye on .

for a lot of players they never focused on that stuff . just play with him and dont expect somethings called " worldclass " .
just play with him together and track it . the only thing he should do is be prepared in fact of " how the songs go " . then play 4-5 takes , and thats what you get .

its kinda strange that the performance isnt good , but the sound is ??? never happened to me heh

if you really decide to edit it , my experience is :

the most important sounds you wont get from a sample cd or soundmodule are the overheads and the room sounds . so i would definately try to capture those and edit em . ( in protools its real easy , you group the whole tracks , cut it on each hit , switch to grid mode and place em , after doing that you select the green mode ( damn whats the name ) and overlab the audiofiles with the in front file , turn autofade on and thats it ) . its still a lot of work and it may sound to accurate but thats an ok compromise .

if thats not an option , sample cds wont do it . you have some cool sounds and or maybe some great loops but most times it doesnt fit to the material at all . single sampled sounds dont provide the feature that you can programm dynamic textures . ( that what makes it sound real ) . so simply pick a cool drummachine ( the r8 is a cool one ) , programm the song the fills and add those sampled sounds afterwards to make it sound more natural . on some sample cds you can find dry and wet samples ( like the bob clearmountain cd ) , you can allign a dry sample with the room sample to make it even sound better ( just know how to do it in pt without getting a nasty filtered effect ) . next thing is a good reverb which simulates a " room sound " , not talking bout just adding some verb on the toms .

its a lot of work and you need to know a little how to fix it ...

a good drummer is the best thing you can have ,
editing is a nightmare heh

good luck
Old 1st December 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by snapper
I've played with some really talented and intelligent drummers before and would love to just hire one at this point. But after the amount of cash Ive spent I'm getting in way to deep as it is. I just want some good drumming god damm it.
For you to be happy I think you need to invest the time and find a better drummer....trade time out. If your drummer is as bad as you say he is, not only will you not ever get anything musical out of him...but his tone (the sound he makes with his drums) is most assuredly horrible. Neither things will improve...either you got it or you don't. Sure you can learn it....but not before you find someone else who can do it.
Continue experimenting and working with the other suggestions posted, and at the same time look for that person.
Old 1st December 2002
  #12
Gear Head
 
snapper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's hard to be subjective when your part of the project. What I mean is, it's hard to be subjective while your rehearsing and trying to get a feel for what "your" doing. It feels good, the timing was on. I play guitar and sing at the same time during rehearsals so a lot of the things go unnoticed. We are trying to put together a marketable product, but I dont want step 1 to mean we have to take 1 step back. And what was played one night at rehearsal doesnt mean that's what will be played during tracking. Its all very inconcistant.
Old 1st December 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
dont get me wrong but that sounds to me like
" the first mistake you can do " .

i can hardly explain why it is that way , but it doesnt mean if some musicians are having a hard time during recording that they cant play . i saw that same thing happen to a lot of talented or imho even great players as well . you hit the record key and all the good stuff is gone . if you start now telling your drummer that he cant play you :

1) are maybe right
2) or you are diggin a hole heΒ΄ll never get out from

next thing you can do , hire a professional ... sure , but youΒ΄ll figure out after 3 days straight " woooooow what a great drummer " , that it isnt the same it used to be . it wouldnt make much sense if colaiuta would have played on a nirvana record .
( if you have the contacts sure you can find the right one , depends on connections and $$$ )

i had times during recordings when i was like " damn i cant play it sounds like **** " and it went even that far that ive blamed the fly on the wall for that . and i have and had times when i go " damn i am a bad mother****** " .

its all a simple mindgame which is hard to control .

to make it fair i would record 2 tunes with the drummer and let all the other members do their job as well . if you figure out that everyone who is involved is doing just a average job you should rethink a little . the drummer is the first person whos doing his takes . maybe you figure out that on part 2 the bass player has the same minorities . dont give your bros such a hard time . cause maybe you are number 3 heh

if it all doesnt help , sometimes its good to have somebody else around who everybody respects without taking it to personal .

and if not , hire another drummer .

good luck & good takes
Old 2nd December 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
im a bit confused with this not noticing bit... i pretty much know everything the drummer is doing while playing live. i had a drummer once that was off because he would go out on a limb on his fills and we all had to compensate to make it "tight" on the way back in. i can easily feel all the pushes and pulls in tempos, erratic timing, etc.

sounds to me like you need to track this puppy all live and not get your expectations higher than what is capable or get a new drummer.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #15
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have what I think is a good way of ironing out bad drumming in the studio. Others have mentioned doing a live take of the whole band with drummer, but for whatever reasons (usually isolation) that isn't always possible.

What I do is have the guitarist play his rhythm part clean and DI'd into the drummer's cans. As long as the guitar is steady and consistant, this works well. If not, add a click to keep everyone in check. Usually a vocal will accompany this so the drummer has a guide of the song. These two elements should give him a very distinct framework to groove his drums onto. Don't give him any other parts to concentrate on, because they can distract him from what he should be doing, which is developing and holding down a groove. The drum groove should already have been developed before recording but that's another topic.

The idea is to have the drummer play in a context he's already adapted to. It's not clear from your post if he's playing completely unaccompanied. If he is, he's a fish out of water. Put him back in a situation he knows about.

If that doesn't work, then what you said before is probably going to hold true: he's playing badly and you've never listened closely enough to tell before. In that case, bite the bullet and get another drummer.

Programmed **** just sounds wrong for most rock, especially in the forefront.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #16
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If the drummer really blows the best thing to do is just replace him, even if it's just for the recording. Figure, you spent all that money for the gear to record your own project and that gives you the luxury of time. Playing drums if your not a drummer isn't a good idea and programming isn't even close to the same game, let alone the same ballpark. The other thing you'll notice about having a great drummer around is that it's much easier to get good to great sounds. Of course, you can feel free to try and reinvent the wheel...
Old 2nd December 2002
  #17
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the timing desease as far as i know it : ( if the drummers playing through the whole thing )

the 1st chorus has no energy and is played " safety first "
the vers is always layed back
the 2nd chorus gets better
the b-part after the chorus is great
the last chorus is overmotivated


heh

analyzing the song which was never practiced to a click track may show some of those results :

the vers is to fast , the chorus is to slow etc.

thats why you need " REHEARSALS " & " PREPRODRUCTION "

after that , anything will be better and if the people who work on your music are doing something for it , it will be cool in most cases .

if you are a rocknroll band , why do you need a clicktrack ???
it need a lots of balls to decide " ok " no click at all . most times it sounds even better if the people who are playing arent used to a clicktrack . i have a lot of respect for those people who decide what they " REALLY " need . ( f.ex. AC/DC could have tons of tracks and overdubs on their cds , they have all the options to do it , but ... THEY DONT DO IT ... respect for those masterminds )

most " unkown bands " production are not cutting it in fact of somebody else ( usually the producer ) decides something that the band cant do . a rough sounding with energy playing band ends up sitting in the studio mixing 128 tracks trhough a ssl .
afterwards they hate it and why ??? just in fact of the producer is that unsafe that he just can work that way . i saw a lot of times good music turning into a piece of **** because the band didnt decide ( okokok , most bands are kinda clueless ) .

would you tell the rolling stones drummer that he cant play to a clicktrack like bozio can ??? there are some people who cant do stuff you love em for . and you blame people you know doing exactly the same heh . you would be scared of how many " holy musicians " are edited as well .

but like most in here said , its a perfect circle you have to life through

1) replace him
2) or keep him

just my experience and opinions

mabye the drummer needs to have some dancing naked girls around when hes playing to give him a attitude ... its worth a try
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 0 views: 1378
Avatar for digi882
digi882 4th January 2007
replies: 15929 views: 1532591
Avatar for Ragan
Ragan 11th January 2019
replies: 843 views: 89729
Avatar for johnnyz
johnnyz 9th December 2018
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump