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Better mic than TLM 103 (but at least as cheap)?
Old 29th November 2002
  #1
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Better mic than TLM 103 (but at least as cheap)?

I have a Neumann TLM 103 that I’m really pleased with, and it’s dead quiet. Have anyone here compared this mic with other microphones in the same (or lower) price range? Any good hints to share about other really good microphones?
Old 29th November 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
StuartMac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Blue Baby Bottle springs to mind. I also like the AKG 414 TLII as a contrast to the Neumann, but it seems to get dissed a bit nowadays
Old 30th November 2002
  #3
Don
Gear Maniac
 
Don's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Look into the Shure KSM44.Very nice.Great for overheads, acoustic guits ect.When I got my first one I compared it to the 103..To me the Ksm44 was less hyped up top..But that was what I was looking for.. you may need something different ..Goodluck
Old 30th November 2002
  #4
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Check out the Studio Projects line when you have a chance.
Their website is www.studioprojectsusa.com

They'll send you a listening CD's for the "B" and "C" series (2 CD's) free of charge. Even their least expensive B1 microphone does well compared to the Baby Bottle per a recent professional engineer's review. All for the whopping sum of around $80.

Chris
Old 30th November 2002
  #5
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The baby bottle mic did NOT do it for me. The real bottle is great, but the baby bottle is should be more in the $400 price range. The 414TLII's is a great choice, but may I submit to you, THE Z5600 from TBK. These are under $600 and totally kick arse for the price range. It's got a great 9 point polar pattern. Definately one of the hidden secrets of our industry. There's a bump around 10K, but it doesn't make vocals sound "essey", and I actually like it a lot. I highly recomend one.
Old 30th November 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You can't go too wrong with AT-4050 too. (I prefer it to current 414's for sure.) It should keep proving useful when your mic locker start to expend...
Old 30th November 2002
  #7
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Would be interesting to see that comparism between B1 and Baby Bottle... Where was it? Anyone tried Röde NT1000or NTK here? I need a quiet "allround" mik (yes, I know) with a lot of output...
Old 30th November 2002
  #8
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The B1 / B2 mic's pick up a lot of the room. Great (really great, I replaced my U87 with one) for room mics, but not so great on vocals. As far as the baby bottle, I can't help but think that they called this a "Baby Bottle" because they suck compared to the others. The Kiwi and other Blue line mic sound great to me, but when I tried this one out (at the time, I didn't even know how cheap it was) I was very disappointed, especially on Vocals and Guitar Cabs (were the Bottle mic does very well). The AT mics are a good suggestion as well. I can't believe they slipped my mind.
Old 1st December 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the CAD M-9 is an awesome tube mic.
Old 1st December 2002
  #10
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Native, my post regarding B1 vs. Baby Bottle was based on comments by Dan Richards, a reviewer at www.digitalprosound .
e-cue, it's confusing since Studio Projects AND Behringer both make a "B1" microphone. Did you mean the Studio Projects B1
and B3 (rather than B2)?

BTW, in the latest issue of Tape Op, Brian Lucey checks out the Studio Projects VTB-1 mic pre and the "B series".
As you may know Tape Op magazine is not "traditional" in its approach to review, and that's meant in a good way.
His comments on the VTB-1 jived with my own impressions as far
as sounding "good" rather than just "good for the money".

Chris

P.S. When I tried out the Rode NT1000, it sounded a bit bright on
my vocals-probably better on female vocals IMHO.
I tried different tonalities from high bass to 2nd tenor and it
was somewhat hyped in the top end (what's new?)
Not the best for a sibilant singer in any event.
Had better luck with the Studio Projects C1 I bought instead.
Old 1st December 2002
  #11
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
These aren't too well known here in the states but I love my pair of Milab DC96Bs. Great on just about anything.

- jon
Old 1st December 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov

e-cue, it's confusing since Studio Projects AND Behringer both make a "B1" microphone. Did you mean the Studio Projects B1
and B3 (rather than B2)?
Ah, you are correct good man. I was refering to the Behringer mics. I wish I had more hands on with the Studio Projects, but all I got is (good) hearsay.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #13
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
As far as the baby bottle, I can't help but think that they called this a "Baby Bottle" because they suck compared to the others. The Kiwi and other Blue line mic sound great to me, but when I tried this one out (at the time, I didn't even know how cheap it was) I was very disappointed, especially on Vocals and Guitar Cabs (were the Bottle mic does very well).
Interesting. What didn't you like about it on guitar amps? I like the Baby Bottle a lot on amps and cabs, always my first choice and most engineers and players who hear them next to a 57, 421, M88 or the other standard stuff prefer them 90% of the time, so I guess your hearing something that me and my clients aren't. FWIW, the other mics in the Blue line are hit & miss for me. The Kiwi isn't bad, I like the Mouse and I strongly dislike the Blueberry.

Hey Alan Hyatt, you still out there? I never got those mics and preamp like you promised back in August and my last two emails went unanswered. I'm still happy to check 'em out, put them through the ringer and post my results.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In the affordable and good sounding category I'd suggest: The AT 40 series, Beyer 834, GT FET, 414, and lets not forget there are dynamic mics that sound good too, and ribbons.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #15
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
The Rode NTK is a bargain, i think. Sounded very nice on my (baritone) voice and on tenor sax. I didn't like the NT1000 nearly as much.

ecue, can you say more about the Z5600? what have you used it on? thanks.
Old 2nd December 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Interesting. What didn't you like about it on guitar amps?
I didn't like how it responded to the low end. It also took the harshness out of the cab sound which isn't something I look for when mic'ing a cab. I keep pushing up my 421, SM57, and 121's going "Cool, Cool, Cool, wait, that's the baby bottle?" when a/b'ing. When I put the bottle up, it was like "Oh yeah, that's what it's supposed to sound like".

When you use it, do you usually close mic or off axis? Did you blend it with other mic's?
Old 4th December 2002
  #17
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Hey Alan Hyatt, you still out there? I never got those mics and preamp like you promised back in August and my last two emails went unanswered. I'm still happy to check 'em out, put them through the ringer and post my results.
Hey Jay,

I am confused. I answered your e-mails. In fact, I was reading one of your earlier posts regaring this situation about 6 weeks or so back on a thread where you mentioned you were a bit miffed that I did not leave you mics.

I replied to that thread to say you had your facts wrong, and guess what happened...you deleted my post! Why, I don't know. All I said was when we spoke, you said, do not leave the mics in New Jersey for you to pick up, so I did not leave them for you. You told me that you had a live gig coming up on Saturday, so that was out. I had told you, Sunday was fine for me up to about 3pm, but I did not get a call back from you until later Sunday night when it was too late, and that is when I suggested I leave them there for you to pick up the next day...you said you did not want to do that.

The next communication was for you to tell me what models you wanted to try and I would ship you them. I got no reply to that, so I don't want to go down that road with you. Why it did not happen is beyond me, but I am not going to be made the bad guy on this one.

At this point, I have 100 screaming dealers trying to get their mics. I am backordered over 1000 mics right now. I have so many reviews out there with the new Pro Audio Review December issue, and the Tape Op December issue as well. I have 6 more reviews coming in the major magazines over the next 7 months, and to boot, we are getting ready to ship the new C4's and the LSD-2's soon, and I leave for vacation on the 17th.

So, I am not sure that your test results will help me at this point, especially when I can't deliver anyway. I have no C1's, or C3's to send out. I mean no disrespect, but we tried to hook up when I was in New Jersey, and that just did not happen.

So let's let this be for now. I will be in town next year in the first quarter. I will try again and let you know my schedule. If we can hook up then, I am happy to do it.
Old 4th December 2002
  #18
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
I didn't like how it responded to the low end. It also took the harshness out of the cab sound which isn't something I look for when mic'ing a cab.

When you use it, do you usually close mic or off axis? Did you blend it with other mic's?
Usually close mic, anywhere from a 1/4" off the grille to about 8" back. Somtimes I'll combine it with another mic, yesterday it was a 421, mixed even and both mics printed to their own track. It was a power trio with no overdub so I wanted the option. Sometimes I'll put another mic on the back of the amp for extra push on the low end. But, I don't know, I like how it takes some of the harshness out. Lately I've really been disliking an SM57 on guitar amps. I remember getting the Royer demo CD and hearing Steve's comparison on guitar amps and really disliking the 57 and thinking how much it sounded like most of the guitars I recorded. At that point I went searching for other mics. While I wouldn't call the Baby Bottle general purpose by any stretch the pair I have do see a fair amount of use.
Old 4th December 2002
  #19
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alanhyatt
[B]Hey Jay,

I am confused. I answered your e-mails. In fact, I was reading one of your earlier posts regaring this situation about 6 weeks or so back on a thread where you mentioned you were a bit miffed that I did not leave you mics.

** Hmmm... now I guess we're both confused. Yeah, I was a bit pissed about your not leaving the mics at the time especially with the prior conversations we had.

I replied to that thread to say you had your facts wrong, and guess what happened...you deleted my post! Why, I don't know.

** What post? I've deleted three posts since this forum went live and I remember each of them and why I did it. That whole thread is here. Go read it if you think I deleted something.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...tudio+Projects

All I said was when we spoke, you said, do not leave the mics in New Jersey for you to pick up, so I did not leave them for you. You told me that you had a live gig coming up on Saturday, so that was out. I had told you, Sunday was fine for me up to about 3pm, but I did not get a call back from you until later Sunday night when it was too late, and that is when I suggested I leave them there for you to pick up the next day...you said you did not want to do that.

** Huh?! Ok, You told me that you would be arriving in NJ on Friday and I called you that afternoon from my cell while I was out running erronds. You said you were in a meeting and it would be best to connect on Saturday early afternoon and to call you in the AM. At some point early Saturday we talked on the phone for a good half hour or so about my old boss, the lack of dealers in the NY metro area, why the one dealer you do have has (or at least had) no product, the state of the industry, the Stephen Paul mics and general bull**** like that. I wanted to stop by your hotel room to pick them up since I had to be in Paramus that afternoon and it would save you a trip out to the studio in Morris Plains.

At that point you told me that wasn’t going to work because you needed the mics to show to your new reps and for dealer meetings in New England. That pissed me off because I said in my email and when we originally talked on the phone that I wanted to check the mics out for an extended period of time and you agreed to it. When you were actually in NJ you told me that you thought I wanted to listen to them for an hour or two at the studio. Now I ask you, what the **** good is that? Yeah, great, it passes signal. Is it gonna flip out in front of a loud amp or a trumpet? What if I wedge it between the kick and snare? I mean, **** it, you even said in your first post that I could use them on a session! So who’s got the case of Alzheimer’s now? Read your first post in that thread again if you think I’m losing it. Maybe the pizza at Mama Rosa's was spiked with LSD or something...

Anyway, you said you’d call me after your meetings were done and before you went back to LA on Wednesday morning. At that point you were either going to leave the mics at the hotel or with a rep/dealer to pick up or you’d take them back to LA and ship me mics from stock. Either way, Wednesday rolled around and I didn’t hear from you and I was in a session and too busy to call during normal business hours.


The next communication was for you to tell me what models you wanted to try and I would ship you them. I got no reply to that, so I don't want to go down that road with you. Why it did not happen is beyond me, but I am not going to be made the bad guy on this one.

*** Ahhh, but dear Alan, I did send you an email that Friday or Saturday with a list of the mics I wanted to check out. It was just a forward of the original email I had sent you in August after you suggested I try the mics myself. Just for the **** of it, here’s the list.

(2) B1
(2) C3
(2) T3

I’d like pairs to eliminate the possibility of bad mics and having to reship things and for the ability to use them as stereo pairs.

Sound familiar now? When I didn’t get a reply to that first follow up email in early September I sent another one just after the middle of the month and again got no reply.

At this point, I have 100 screaming dealers trying to get their mics. I am backordered over 1000 mics right now. I have so many reviews out there with the new Pro Audio Review December issue, and the Tape Op December issue as well. I have 6 more reviews coming in the major magazines over the next 7 months, and to boot, we are getting ready to ship the new C4's and the LSD-2's soon, and I leave for vacation on the 17th.

** That’s great. Personally I don’t give a **** if you get me the mics or not. I was trying to help you out and satisfy my curiosity at the same time. Just because you’re selling lots of them doesn’t mean that they sound good. Even though word on the street is good I’m not going to believe it until I try them myself and with no (or 2) dealers in NJ that’s gonna be tough. I’ve never seen a bad review in PAR and some of the Tape Op reviews seem questionable depending on who writes it up.

So, I am not sure that your test results will help me at this point, especially when I can't deliver anyway. I have no C1's, or C3's to send out. I mean no disrespect, but we tried to hook up when I was in New Jersey, and that just did not happen.

** You got that right. I even asked for B-stock or C-stock figuring that might help you out and be less expensive for me if I liked them and wanted to add them to the small and growing collection of moose mics. But, if you ain’t got ‘em you ain’t got ‘em.

So let's let this be for now. I will be in town next year in the first quarter. I will try again and let you know my schedule. If we can hook up then, I am happy to do it.

** That sounds like a plan. You know how to reach me.
Old 4th December 2002
  #20
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jay,

Why do you have such an attitude. My guess is your so deffensive because you know your wrong, and I am right.

By the way, the thread you have up is not the thread I am talking about. It was right after I left New Jersey where you commented about us not hooking up. The post was hinting at my being a flake and I replied, and it was that reply that was deleted!

We seem to be having a communication problem, because I went back through all of me e-mails from those dates, and I did not get anything from you.

I even looked at my plane receipt for that flight. I arrived in Newark on Friday at 5:04 pm. I rented a car, and got to E. Rutherford by 6:30. I got a phone call from you shortly after that, and I said, Ok, lets do this. You said Friday was not good, and now I don't remember what reason you gave. I did not plan on leaving the mics at first. My plan was to bring them to your studio, have you bring out your best mics, and A/B them with mine. I do remember saying that I would send them before I left, but you told me not to becauase you were moving the studio. Saturday was open for me until my afternoon appointment, and Sunday was ok until I left for New England. I did get back on Wednesday in the late evening about, 8:30pm, and my flight was early the next day back to LA.

Look, your making this a pissing contest which I am not interested in. Additionally, I do not like your attitude or accusations when I was trying to helpful. For what ever reason it did not happen. Just remember it was you that told me not to send them before I left for New Jersey in the first place.

I don't need approval from you to help me sell microphones. You were just so vocal about the subject that Klaus tunes capsules that I had to reply to you to tell you that you were wrong...and you are. From there it led to me coming out to New Jersey.

Do you think after you tell me I am on LSD and have case of Alzheimer’s that I will be happy to send you mics? You don't get anywhere with me by being a prick.

I don't care what you say, or how you say it. I know how it went down. All that is left is our bickering on these threads, and that is something I don't care about doing.
Old 4th December 2002
  #21
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
cheap mics

Yes I was impressed by the Studio Projects stuff. Clean and cheap with a good sound. 3 micron with no tranny yeilds a distinct color range that's got a lot of top ala TLM 103 without that squalky new-Neumann sound.

Slightly darker colored cheapies would be the Audix types including MXL and others. I have great examples of these (my Audix CX-111 was said by the factory to be the best they had ever heard) yet it's luck/grace as to what you get in the mail. Chinese dia. mics are generally all very different. StudioProjects quality control makes demoing one more likely to be consistent to others.

Fletcher turned me on to the Josephson 42, small dia pair for OH and acoustic, etc. Very nice for $1050/pr.
Old 4th December 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jay, Alan- you all should really take your conversation into private. Hey, misunderstandings happen.
Old 4th December 2002
  #23
Lives for gear
 
alanhyatt's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by G-man
Jay, Alan- you all should really take your conversation into private. Hey, misunderstandings happen.
Agreed G-Man!!!
Old 5th December 2002
  #24
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alanhyatt
[B]Jay,

Why do you have such an attitude. My guess is your so deffensive because you know your wrong, and I am right.

*** Guess again. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. Like the fact that you said I called you on Sunday night when I never did. I know where I was that night and calling you would've been, well... really difficult at best and it was the last thing on my mind.


By the way, the thread you have up is not the thread I am talking about. It was right after I left New Jersey where you commented about us not hooking up. The post was hinting at my being a flake and I replied, and it was that reply that was deleted!

** Then I doubt it was in my forum and you should talk to the moderator who's forum it was in.

We seem to be having a communication problem, because I went back through all of me e-mails from those dates, and I did not get anything from you.

** Strange, because I sent two emails to follow up. I am on AOHell and it wouldn't be the first time that email got emauled.


My plan was to bring them to your studio, have you bring out your best mics, and A/B them with mine. I do remember saying that I would send them before I left, but you told me not to becauase you were moving the studio. Saturday was open for me until my afternoon appointment, and Sunday was ok until I left for New England. I did get back on Wednesday in the late evening about, 8:30pm, and my flight was early the next day back to LA.

** And that's why I guess I have a bug up my ass about it. I thought the original plan was for you to leave the mics with me the whole time and not just drop by for a quick demo. That's kinda pointless IMHO. There have been plenty of things I've discounted after one listen that I got to really like after using them in context. There are also plenty of things I thought were amazing with one listen that turned out to be total garbage.

Look, your making this a pissing contest which I am not interested in. Additionally, I do not like your attitude or accusations when I was trying to helpful. For what ever reason it did not happen. Just remember it was you that told me not to send them before I left for New Jersey in the first place.

** Right, and there was a good reason for that. I wasn't working a lot at the time and they would've spent lots of time in their boxes. That doesn't do anyone any good does it?

I don't need approval from you to help me sell microphones. You were just so vocal about the subject that Klaus tunes capsules that I had to reply to you to tell you that you were wrong...and you are. From there it led to me coming out to New Jersey.

** I thought you were coming to the east coast because you had to, not just for me. Aww, now I feel like a dick. And like I've said many times before. I don't know how to build the ****, I have half a clue and I just use it and know what works for me and what doesn't.

Do you think after you tell me I am on LSD and have case of Alzheimer’s that I will be happy to send you mics? You don't get anywhere with me by being a prick.

** And I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest, if that's what I wanted it would be real easy, not many people see that side of me. Mostly because it doesn't come out often. Maybe I should've put one of these after that line. fuuck Or maybe this one? rollz Whatver...

I don't care what you say, or how you say it. I know how it went down. All that is left is our bickering on these threads, and that is something I don't care about doing.

*** It's not something I want to do either. I have better things to do then this, like preproduction with the band who's record I'm starting next week, finishing this mixing gig or trying to find the bad pass transistor on my JH-24's power supply so I can that bad boy back in service (it's 20 years old this month!!!). Anyway, if you want to continue this feel free to call me between 11am and 9pm EST at 973-605-5155 or email me at [email protected]
Old 5th December 2002
  #25
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Children.... hush....
Old 6th December 2002
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey e-cue! and all gearslutzz over in LA

I have a question, I´ve done some hard rocking stuff like Linkin, Trust Co, etc. I would like to find someone who could co-write the songs with me and my guitarist, and sing the demos....The problem is that here in Sweden there´s not anybody who could sing the way I want....Do you have any connection in the ROCK world or is it just hip ta da hop??yuktyy

I have been in contact with a friend of mine who´s managing one of the artist I produce and lives in Malibu. But he´s so slooooow......

Let me know what you´re thinking....

/TT
Old 6th December 2002
  #27
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you guys ever meet, a few beers and some pizza ought to go a long way towards resolution.

Chris
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