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Er... and now what? Basic tracking then what?
Old 18th November 2002
  #1
Er... and now what? Basic tracking then "what to do next" ???

I've just done some basic tracking, now I am fairly stuck for what to do next. I will start the session in a sec after a weeks break and review the tracks, I think it will just be a tiny bit of percussion Bvox and acc gtr.. It will work out I am sure, but I am a tiny bit phased by my lack of ideas... Dont get me wrong I dont HAVE to add overdubs, it just sounds a little TOO empty. All the sounds ARE large, phat etc... plenty to work with..

Ever get tracking done and be surprised at just how FEW overdubs are needed? Or been stuck for "what to do next" ?

This is a raw 'bar band' / Stones style act.. that's cool but it kinda sounds a little TOO empty though...

So basic tracks / then lack of overdubs ideas / resulting in an 'empty unfinished sound'

Discuss...

Old 18th November 2002
  #2
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
maybe a shaker or something.... leave it sparse, real seperated and real big. put some springverb on the guitars [if left dry during tracking], a great space on the drums... just totally throw people with it being so spacey and big... it would be great to hear against the current walls of sound production styles of today.
Old 18th November 2002
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
I referenced the Black Crows record, "Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" recently while mixing a project. For sounds, It's a great reference for this style of R&R. Compliments of George Drakoulias and Brendon O'Brien.

I guess if I were thinking of some fattening elements (and not wanting to go with AC/DC-style simplicity) I'd consider adding great pad sounds judiciously throughout the record. Ya know, Hammond B3, steel guitar, strings, reed organs, vocal ooh's, etc.

best of luck.
Old 18th November 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
bassmac's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree it's probably more the current wall of sound production that makes that kind of stuff seem empty. Then again, the White Stripes sound pretty f'ing full to me considering they're just guitar and drums.

Maybe you just need to stack up all those warming, fattening, and distorto gadgets to fill in the gaps. After all, an important ingredient in the sound of the early Stones was "tape hiss"...and lot's of it.

heh
Old 18th November 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
tommyd's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree with Alpha, leave some space. You mentioned this project being a "Stones" vibe. Use some REAL maracas for added sauce. It's amazing what they did for the groove on some of those classic Stones tracks! TommyD
Old 18th November 2002
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
white stripes have a bit of other instrumentation but i agree. its pretty damn good sounding in a lofi kinda way.

what i REALLY like about sparse productions is you can leave most things full range and not have to clear out conflicting frequencies as much. thats what i noticed about the white stripes stuff is the guitar is so full compared to some recordings with that big HP filter on it.
Old 18th November 2002
  #7
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
how about some careful doubling? at the worst, it will give your idle hands something to do while you consider whether or not its really needed.
Old 18th November 2002
  #8
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Often a little percussion and BGs is all that's needed. I think its best to never have anything repeat exactly the same twice and there's NOTHING better for moving things along than percussion and BGs to make each verse and chorus subtilty different and larger than the last one. At Motown, Lamont Dozier always came up with background parts off the top of his head as a final overdub that was used to beef up any part of the song that still seemed too weak. This approach also works well for deciding when to double parts or add harmony lines.

I'll never forget Tony Clarke, the original producer of the Moody Blues, telling me that he was convinced good production was simply knowing when to stop!
Old 18th November 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
adam_w's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Maybe you have room to make the stuff that is there bigger vs having to make space like usual ? Raw is good !

Feed those tracks an all meat high fat diet and throw 'em to the lions..now close your eyes, go back in time..stagger past the bar..you can do it.. and imagine yourself in the filthiest ****hole concrete basement you ever played in taking note that you had no pads, oohs, nothin' only hiss, filth, stale beer, drool, a half working set of wedges to work with and yet despite this you WILL rock and need no artificial bolstering or weaselly backing **** . Oh Yes, Jules..













rollz
Old 18th November 2002
  #10
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
I know I'm simply adding a 'Me Too", but leaving it open is a great alternative. Anything else depends on the tracks that are there.
Old 18th November 2002
  #11
OK, we assessed the situation.

Perk
Bvox
Acc gtr (main gtr on one part of the lead tune not recorded at tracking time)
A Lesley cab arppegiate gtr idea (Like on Exile on Main St 'let it lose') for one M8 section..
Lead vocals


So the acc gtr went well today, the singer brought a newish looking Epiphone "Elvis Prestly' acc gtr and I had my 1953 Gibson SJ acoustic... (no prizes for guessing which we used.. but we did try both)

Beyer 201 - sound hole
AKG 251 - neck 7th fret
Panned wide

each into
Helios pre - some eq used
Cranesong STC - 8
Fatso
PT

As well as the intro to the lead song we decided to use the Stones trick of having it double the rhy gtr for the rest of the song, and found it V handy to highlight a rising scale with drone part on a "Springsteenesque' power pop B side song..

That's all we did today 2 acoustic gtr parts, we had to punch in a lot, it was hard to double how the original electric gtr part went & there were sections where my live tambourine "click track" was more steady than the drums..

Which leads me to......

Later in the week I have to take a day off but I am hiring my old assistant to come in & 'tighten up' the tracks, there are a few obvious 'whoopsies' that sound like poor playing in the over all very good live takes.. He will make those conform either to my tambourine playing or do his magic with via strategic edits only in spots needed to make the songs flow better and not stray from the overall toe tapping goodness I captured.

Good suggestions all!

Thanks!

Old 18th November 2002
  #12
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Your Add Here!
I referenced the Black Crows record, "Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" recently while mixing a project. For sounds, It's a great reference for this style of R&R. Compliments of George Drakoulias and Brendon O'Brien.
That's a good record but I think Amorica sounds much better. I still listen to it a few times a month. I'll just "me too" teh other comments. Leave some space, use room sound to fill the holes in, otherwise all the classic rock "pads" work. B3, big open guitar chords through a slightly overdriven amp, shakers & tape hiss all work. Don't make it too clean sounding. Leave some grit in there.
Old 19th November 2002
  #13
The singer/writer HATES B3 / any organ......

That was my first suggestion..

Tape hiss..??

Hmm interesting!

Good idea..
Old 19th November 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
NOOOOOO! leave that crap out of the recording. tape hiss sucks!

put vinyl surface noise in instead.
Old 19th November 2002
  #15
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Come on, tape hiss rocks! As long as there isn't too much of it that is. That and overdriven mic pres are cool. Rock & roll baby!
Old 19th November 2002
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Your Add Here!
George Drakoulias
AGGGHH..that lottery winning hack. If it weren't for RR he'd be in another line of work.
Old 19th November 2002
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
"AGGGHH..that lottery winning hack. If it weren't for RR he'd be in another line of work."

I plead ignorance on this one.

For argument's sake... Hats off to the engineers, Brendon O'Brien and Kevin Shirley.
Old 20th November 2002
  #18
Well all little flavors added,

today

Shakers / tamb
Bvox (2 of the band)
Electric gtr - one 'racket' part at end - one Lesley gtr in a M8

Had a mild fight for a few minuites with the band due to the stress of not wanting to mess it up and healthy paranoia about keeping it simple..

Got over it.... material preserved, enhanced, not ruined..

Vocals next...
Old 20th November 2002
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like to do vocals after basics and before the ear-candy. That way you can make sure the ear-candy works with the melody.
Old 20th November 2002
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
The singer/writer HATES B3 / any organ......

That was my first suggestion..
After having to be on one end, carrying up a flight of stairs a few too many times, so do I... but damn they sound so good!!!fuuck
Old 22nd November 2002
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris


After having to be on one end, carrying up a flight of stairs a few too many times, so do I... but damn they sound so good!!!fuuck
That's funny. I almost killed my singer when we were bringing My Hammond M3 (a small one compared to a B or C) up the stairs at the old studio.

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