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What would 115 BPM in 4/4 be in 6/8? - Gearspace.com
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What would 115 BPM in 4/4 be in 6/8?
Old 15th November 2007
  #1
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heisleyamor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What would 115 BPM in 4/4 be in 6/8?

I played the drum track in 6/8 in Adobe Audition but the tempo was set at 4/4 and it still worked obviously...but I want to retake the drums at the same exact tempo I did them but first do them electronically on my computer so I can play to them. How do I know what tempo 115 is in 6/8? It's really hard to tell by ears and I can't match up the timing
Old 15th November 2007
  #2
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NOCCA's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm sorta stupid musically stupid, but wouldn't it seem logical that 115BPM, which is of course one hundred fifteen beats in one minute of time, wouldn't change if you divided it up into 4 or 3 or 5 or 6 or ....

The meter is a measurement of how many beats in a measure. BPM is a measurement of how many beats in a minute. And like it or not we can't change how long a minute is.
Old 15th November 2007 | Show parent
  #3
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ArcCirDude's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What you were probably playing was 12/8, assuming that you were playing a triplet on each beat. As long as you are playing a triplet on each beat, the tempo of 115 will remain the same.

When I first read your post, I was thinking you wanted a metric modulation where 1 1/2 beats (3 eighth notes) of 4/4 would equal 1 beat (3 eighth notes) of (a fast) 6/8, but that would make your new tempo slower than 115.

Hey NOCCA! As in New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts? Homeslice!
Old 15th November 2007 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 15 years
I agree - BPM is BPM, and time signature is just a way of dividing up the beats.

But i'm guessing here that the drummer, while recording in 4/4 was playing 6/8 - but still syncing to the whole 4/4 bar. (Both time signatures have a two and a four backbeat).

So in order to create one bar of a new electronic drum track in 6/8, that will fill the same amount of time as one bar of 4/4 - the tempo of the new track will need to be slowed down to timestretch this.

6/8 = 3/4 = 0.75.

So I believe you will need to use a tempo of 0.75*115 = 86.25 BPM.
Old 15th November 2007 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 15 years
If your daw can't set the tempo to that accuracy, maybe try using your time stretching algorithmn with snap-2-grid enabled ...
Old 15th November 2007 | Show parent
  #6
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If I understand correctly, you recorded drums in a 6/8 time, while your software was set to a 4/4 grid at 115Bpm.

Now, the only thing you gotta look for is that the BPM is (almost) always considered a fourth note, thus all you'd have
to do is either set the time to 6/8 at 57.5bpm (115bpm/2 since it is 8ths instead of 4ths) or just set the time to 3/4.
In this case you would use two bars as the 6/8 of course.

That should you get aligned. Unless I'm wrong. Damn it sounds so easy it almost can't be.


btw, first post
Old 15th November 2007 | Show parent
  #7
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BLUElightCory's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Guys!

If he's playing at 115bpm; he can just switch over to 3/4 and stay at 115 bpm. The beats per minute will not change. 3/4 and 6/8 are very similar and are essentially interchangable; 6/8 time essentially subdivides each quarter note beat into two eighth notes. This makes 6/8 time more useful for reading and writing music at faster tempos or when the feel of the music calls for it. 6/8 time can have an odd or even feel, which is why generally the feel of the piece of music will determine whether it's counted as 3/4 or 6/8. I'm assuming that if you originally recorded the piece in 4/4 without an accent, a 3/4 conversion will suffice (that is, the accents make sense when converted to 3/4).

For your intended purpose, heisleyamor, just switch the meter to 3/4 time and keep the tempo the same; you should be fine. If you do decide to switch the meter to 6/8, you can still keep the tempo at 115 bpm as well.
Old 26th January 2011 | Show parent
  #8
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Ned Bouhalassa's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah, yeah, I know it's a really old thread! But FTR, when converting from 6/8 to 4/4, you have to divide the tempo by 2/3 not 3/4. So just multiply the 6/8 tempo by .6666, not .75 as stated above.
Old 26th January 2011 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 10 years
I'm sure the OP will be elated to get back to work on that track now that he has the answer.
Old 26th January 2011 | Show parent
  #10
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Ned Bouhalassa's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ha! This is more for those who might have the same question in the future. It's not like this calculation is going to go out of style! heh
Old 26th January 2011 | Show parent
  #11
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dasindevin's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
good ol compound meters...

great for those arguments when both sides are right ---

-"no it's in 6"
-"no it's in 2"


just on a silly side note... cubase finally added a triplet grid so that should add some fun
Old 26th January 2011
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heisleyamor ➑️
I played the drum track in 6/8 in Adobe Audition but the tempo was set at 4/4 and it still worked obviously...but I want to retake the drums at the same exact tempo I did them but first do them electronically on my computer so I can play to them. How do I know what tempo 115 is in 6/8? It's really hard to tell by ears and I can't match up the timing

Quarter Note = 115
Eighth Note = 230

so, instead of 2 eights note, you would have 3 eighth notes per beat...

Dotted Quarter = 76.6 BPM.

Last edited by JazzSax_UT; 26th January 2011 at 10:00 PM.. Reason: forgot how to do math, again
Old 26th January 2011 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
And now I realized how old this post is.... never mind.
Old 21st September 2011 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
I realise how old the original post is but I had the same question and this post turns up on a Google search and I wanted to clear up some of the mis-information above.
Basically, Kiwiburger, above, is correct: to switch the bpm from 4/4 time to 6/8 you would multiply by 0.75 (three quarters).
However, for this to be the case there is an assumption to be made that, in both cases you are considering the "beat" in B.P.M. to be a quarter note.
As someone pointed out, a minute is always going to be the same amount but the value of a beat can change in two ways: one being the value of a beat in a time signature and the other is how you actually count a beat when calculating BPM.

6/8 is a good example.
The time signature tells us to count to 6 when playing and each of those counts is an eighth note but it is normal to count bpm for 6/8 time in dotted quarter notes ie (2 per bar).
It's more practical this way, otherwise you would have 200 bpm in 6/8 time being way way slower than 200 bpm is 4/4 time. So calculating bpm in 6/8 time you would count beats on the 1 and the 4.

Anyway back to the example above, to work it out you have to compare like with like. What is 6/8 time in quarter notes? The answer is 3/4.

So if 4/4 = 115, what's 3/4? Three is three quarters of four so to calculate how this fits into 3/4 or 6/8 time we multiply by 0.75 (and get 86.25 in our example).
Or another way of looking at it is, consider whole notes. 4/4 time has one whole note per bar where 3/4 time has three quarters of a whole note per bar.
This may sound more complicated than it actually is.
Best thing is to try it in a DAW. I had recorded some music with a 6/8 feel in 4/4 time at 94 bpm and a switch to 6/8 at 70.5 bpm (with each quarter note getting a beat) makes it fit.
Old 21st September 2011
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heisleyamor ➑️
I played the drum track in 6/8 in Adobe Audition but the tempo was set at 4/4 and it still worked obviously...but I want to retake the drums at the same exact tempo I did them but first do them electronically on my computer so I can play to them. How do I know what tempo 115 is in 6/8? It's really hard to tell by ears and I can't match up the timing

er........
umm.............

this is a trick question right ???????
it should be 115BPM (implied quarter notes)
no matter how you slice up the notes into measures
so 6/8 = 3/4 = 115BPM with only 3 beats per measure not 4

its BPMinute not BPMeasure
Old 21st September 2011 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzSax_UT ➑️
Quarter Note = 115
Eighth Note = 230

so, instead of 2 eights note, you would have 3 eighth notes per beat...

Dotted Quarter = 76.6 BPM.
BPM is implied as quarter notes
you always see mm quarternote = xxx BPM above the score

now if they had marked it with 1/8 notes then it would be still be 115 BPMinutes only with 1/8th notes being a beat.
Old 21st September 2011 | Show parent
  #17
cqd
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Bouhalassa ➑️
Yeah, yeah, I know it's a really old thread! But FTR, when converting from 6/8 to 4/4, you have to divide the tempo by 2/3 not 3/4. So just multiply the 6/8 tempo by .6666, not .75 as stated above.
What he said..
Old 22nd September 2011 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy ➑️
er........
umm.............

this is a trick question right ???????
it should be 115BPM (implied quarter notes)
no matter how you slice up the notes into measures
so 6/8 = 3/4 = 115BPM with only 3 beats per measure not 4

its BPMinute not BPMeasure

Yes, but the point in this instance is to line the measures up to the music so that the 1 falls in a consistent place.
Otherwise the concept of a time signature is kind of irrelevant.
Old 22nd September 2011 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqd ➑️
What he said..
No it's 0.75. Try it!
Old 22nd September 2011
  #20
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy ➑️
BPM is implied as quarter notes
you always see mm quarternote = xxx BPM above the score

now if they had marked it with 1/8 notes then it would be still be 115 BPMinutes only with 1/8th notes being a beat.
In 6/8 and 12/8, the pulse is still 2 and 4, it's just the beats referred to in the bpm are dotted crotchets, not crotchets. So it's still 115 bpm if you want to count it 2 to the bar, assuming you were effectively playing triplets to a 4/4 beat in the first place. You change the length of a beat, not the bpm, seeing as the pulse of the music doesn't change!
Old 22nd September 2011
  #21
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsparx ➑️
I realise how old the original post is but I had the same question and this post turns up on a Google search and I wanted to clear up some of the mis-information above.
Basically, Kiwiburger, above, is correct: to switch the bpm from 4/4 time to 6/8 you would multiply by 0.75 (three quarters).
However, for this to be the case there is an assumption to be made that, in both cases you are considering the "beat" in B.P.M. to be a quarter note.
As someone pointed out, a minute is always going to be the same amount but the value of a beat can change in two ways: one being the value of a beat in a time signature and the other is how you actually count a beat when calculating BPM.

6/8 is a good example.
The time signature tells us to count to 6 when playing and each of those counts is an eighth note but it is normal to count bpm for 6/8 time in dotted quarter notes ie (2 per bar).
It's more practical this way, otherwise you would have 200 bpm in 6/8 time being way way slower than 200 bpm is 4/4 time. So calculating bpm in 6/8 time you would count beats on the 1 and the 4.

Anyway back to the example above, to work it out you have to compare like with like. What is 6/8 time in quarter notes? The answer is 3/4.

So if 4/4 = 115, what's 3/4? Three is three quarters of four so to calculate how this fits into 3/4 or 6/8 time we multiply by 0.75 (and get 86.25 in our example).
Or another way of looking at it is, consider whole notes. 4/4 time has one whole note per bar where 3/4 time has three quarters of a whole note per bar.
This may sound more complicated than it actually is.
Best thing is to try it in a DAW. I had recorded some music with a 6/8 feel in 4/4 time at 94 bpm and a switch to 6/8 at 70.5 bpm (with each quarter note getting a beat) makes it fit.
You see, this is wrong, you don't have 6 beats in a bar in 6/8, you have 2. A click in 3 would leave the first beat in the right place, but the rest of the beats in the bar not in the right place for the feel.
Old 22nd September 2011 | Show parent
  #22
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6/8 is a compound bar, the unit of tempo has 3 quavers. It is a binary bar
Old 22nd September 2011 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
You see, this is wrong, you don't have 6 beats in a bar in 6/8, you have 2.
A 6/8 time signature is literally saying you have 6 beats in a measure and the beat is on the 8th note. This is commonly divided into 2 downbeats, with the emphasis on the dotted quarter note. That is not a rule by default though, you can divide a measure up however you would like, correct?
Old 23rd September 2011 | Show parent
  #24
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
In 6/8 and 12/8, the pulse is still 2 and 4, it's just the beats referred to in the bpm are dotted crotchets, not crotchets. So it's still 115 bpm if you want to count it 2 to the bar, assuming you were effectively playing triplets to a 4/4 beat in the first place. You change the length of a beat, not the bpm, seeing as the pulse of the music doesn't change!
wtf

the metronome is still set to 115 isnt it ?

dont care what you are playing
you can play hemidemisemiquavers for all i care
the bpm is the bpMINUTE is still 115
Old 25th September 2011 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy ➑️
BPM is implied as quarter notes
you always see mm quarternote = xxx BPM above the score

now if they had marked it with 1/8 notes then it would be still be 115 BPMinutes only with 1/8th notes being a beat.

BPM is never implied as a quarter note. It most commonly is, but it's never implied. That's why you see the note type (quarter, dotted quarter, eigth etc.) followed by an equals sign, then a number.

If the piece is in 6/8 the pulse will be a dotted quarter, that's why it would be 76 BPM.
Old 25th September 2011
  #26
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Okay, so my guess is that OP wanted to make a beat in 3/4 or 6/8 on a machine (such as the sp303 in my avatar) that quantizes in 4/4 only.

So, for instance, if he had set the bpm at 130, then wanted to sequence a waltz, and set the quantize to triplets, then sequenced the waltz treating half note triplets as quarter notes (which is the only way to sequence a waltz in this circumstance), then his question would be perfectly valid.

In fact, this scenario (or a slightly less involved variation) seems more likely than most I can think off (some chap drunk at his computer asking random questions?)
Old 26th September 2011 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpyLoo ➑️
Okay, so my guess is that OP wanted to make a beat in 3/4 or 6/8 on a machine (such as the sp303 in my avatar) that quantizes in 4/4 only.

So, for instance, if he had set the bpm at 130, then wanted to sequence a waltz, and set the quantize to triplets, then sequenced the waltz treating half note triplets as quarter notes (which is the only way to sequence a waltz in this circumstance), then his question would be perfectly valid.

In fact, this scenario (or a slightly less involved variation) seems more likely than most I can think off (some chap drunk at his computer asking random questions?)

I'd buy that. As long as the pulse is a duple instead of a triple feel.
Old 26th September 2011 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzSax_UT ➑️
BPM is never implied as a quarter note. It most commonly is, but it's never implied. That's why you see the note type (quarter, dotted quarter, eigth etc.) followed by an equals sign, then a number.

If the piece is in 6/8 the pulse will be a dotted quarter, that's why it would be 76 BPM.

If you count the bpm with a dotted quarter (which you probably should) the bpm would be 57.5 (ie half of 115). That's because there's 2 beats per bar instead of 4 in 4/4 time.
This is actually a simpler way to explain this.
Old 26th September 2011 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsparx ➑️
If you count the bpm with a dotted quarter (which you probably should) the bpm would be 57.5 (ie half of 115). That's because there's 2 beats per bar instead of 4 in 4/4 time.
This is actually a simpler way to explain this.
But in 6/8 there are 3 eights per beat, not two. That's why it's 76 and some change. It's also how you can do a metric modulation using a triplet.

Also, a dot after a note duration means that value plus half that value. So, with a dotted quarter note, it would be the same as 3 eighth notes.
Old 26th September 2011 | Show parent
  #30
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzSax_UT ➑️
But in 6/8 there are 3 eights per beat, not two. That's why it's 76 and some change. It's also how you can do a metric modulation using a triplet.

Also, a dot after a note duration means that value plus half that value. So, with a dotted quarter note, it would be the same as 3 eighth notes.

But we're not counting in eighths in this case. We're counting in dotted quarters, hence 2 per bar.
So when you define the beat in bpm as a dotted quarter there's 2 beats per bar in 6/8 time and 4 beats per bar in 4/4 time counting a beat (bpm again) as a quarter note.
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