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Nashville Sound and Compressors
Old 17th November 2002
  #1
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nashville Sound and Compressors

Hey Y'all...

I have decided to join the 21st century, and am currently prestaging an traditional 'honky-tonk' singer...the problem I am running into is that all of my standard chicken-picking stuff comes across more like Don Rich than, say, Brent Mason...very staccato, very percussive stuff...

Seems even with the guitar having an inline compressor going to his amp, and running a compressor after the mic, I still am getting very explosive peaks on the wave form...

How fast do you tend to set your compressors to retain the "Albert Lee" sound but still keep the 'plosives out of the waveforms? I've tried as fast as 6-7 mS, but the spikes still jump right off the scale...

FWIW: running SM57 in front of a Music Man (THE chicken-picking tone, btw) into 1 channel of an OctoPre, AT4041 blended via d8b preamp..

Thanks...Buck-Owenly Yours,

Ken
Old 17th November 2002
  #2
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
The trick is in the compressor you use between the guitar and the amp - the classic Dynacomp will get yo a lot of the way there. Also, keep in mind that Brent (and Ray Flacke, and, I believe, Albert Lee) does a lot of that stuff with his findgers, not with a pick.
Old 17th November 2002
  #3
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Yee haw!
Old 17th November 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks Dave...Albert for sure uses a small jazz pick, about 18 fingers on each hand, and no in line effects...

Been toying it with it a lot more...very old Dynacomp is there, but come to find that for some reason, an open back cabinet makes at least a 100% difference...swapped cabs from a small 1-12 closed back to an open back, same mics, same everything, but MAN!!! Guess the mics were too close to the closed cab to let the speaker breath, where the open gives all those reflected things coming from the rear...

Thanks... and Jules...

out here in west Texas its pronounced "yee- ****ing haw'!grggt
Old 17th November 2002
  #5
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
out here in west Texas
where you get your minerals by breathing

Good luck with the tone!
Old 17th November 2002
  #6
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Smith


where you get your minerals by breathing
Most of them - you get the rest from what is laughingly known as 'water'.
Old 17th November 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
minerals...hmmm...

yesterday I chipped a tooth on a dixie cup full of Midland 'water'... good thing it had all that stuff in it to immediately stop the bleeding...

Really its not so bad, except for the occasional hydrogen sulphide leaks...but with constant 30 MPH winds, the poison never stays around for long... madd
Old 18th November 2002
  #8
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've gone for that kind of tone after the fact and used a dbx 160VU on the back side. It's not quite the same but it's kind of close. What was the peak to average on the guitar track? Keep in mind that by swapping the cab and speaker the speaker might be compressing more and evening things out. How loud is the amp?
Old 18th November 2002
  #9
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
not loud at all...50 watt job...I do believe I've found the answer, though...the differences between open and closed back cabs are significant when the tone is being somewhat isolated from the rest of the sound sources...

with a closed cab, I just couldn't get any upper ended spank (for lack of a better term)...but switching to the open seemed to enhance the upper mids, cleaned up the bottom, and eased some of the telecaster's piercing treble...

almost seems backwards, but hey, it worked for me...
Old 19th November 2002
  #10
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No, it actually makes some sense. I'd guess that the open back cab isn't focusing the sound as much which might help. I'd rather know what kind of speaker is in each cab. Did one have an EV or JBL and the other is a Celestion Vintage 30? That makes a HUGE difference. Don't forget about speaker compression. BTW, 40 or 45 watts is plenty loud, ever hear a 4x10 Bassman on 5? Whew, that'll wake you up.
Old 19th November 2002
  #11
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes sir...and that 50 watts wasn't even close...amp was 'just' on...anyway, the speakers are Weber California 12's...they seem to be a cross between JBLs and old Jensens...very VERY cool speakers for clean stuff. Seems ironic that the BEST (IMHO) tele-style tones come from a formula rig: tele -> MXR DynaComp -> Fender Deluxe or MusicMan RD50...

I still play out once in a great while...old rig was a stereo rackmounted affair, 1 2-12 cab on either side of the rack...midi'd to death...tonites gig is a MusicMan RD50, 1-10, with a compressor pedal...my how times, energy, and back muscles have changed!

Jay, you're so right about the old Bassman amp...Things get so loud they can spoil the milk while its still in the cow...
Old 19th November 2002
  #12
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atticus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Brent Mason also has a custom pickup from Seymour Duncan on this main Tele that has different type of magnets on the the three top strings than it does on the bottom three. Check out the Duncan website to see about them. Good luck!
Old 19th November 2002
  #13
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yea...got 'em in all my teles...they really are cool for rock, too...
Old 19th November 2002
  #14
Here for the gear
 
Mysterytrain's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
**** Judge...here is what you do...go over to the telecaster discussion page reissue..www.tdpri.com those guys will chicken pick yer ears off. The guys you need to talk to is Bill Hullett or Reggie Young. Bill's site is at http://www.concentric.net/~bhullett/
his email is: [email protected] This guy is a great nashville telecaster chicken picker and an all around good guy that will give you all the info you need. He can also get you in touch with Reggie Young. Damn, I love telecasters got a real 52

Peace and twang, Ron "tell Delbert I said Hi"
Old 20th November 2002
  #15
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Mysterytrain
**** Judge...here is what you do...go over to the telecaster discussion page reissue..www.tdpri.com those guys will chicken pick yer ears off. The guys you need to talk to is Bill Hullett or Reggie Young.
Yep - Billy Hullett is a great player. I haven't worked with him since the summer, but he's amazing.
Old 20th November 2002
  #16
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Midlandmorgan

I still play out once in a great while...old rig was a stereo rackmounted affair, 1 2-12 cab on either side of the rack...midi'd to death...tonites gig is a MusicMan RD50, 1-10, with a compressor pedal...my how times, energy, and back muscles have changed!
Yeah, I remember going from a small combo to a 2x12 combo with a rack to a half stack and back to a 50 watt 1x12 combo. Nuts. Sometimes I'll drag out a head an a 2x12 cab but it depends on my mood. I used to carry at least two guitars to every gig, I only brought one to the last gig. Ever see that issue of Modern Drummer a few years ago with this in the back? On the last page it had a picture of three drum sets. The first was a four piece with a ride and crash and said "Your first drum set". The next kit was a double bass with 10 toms and a billion cymbals and said "Your second drum set". The kit on the bottom of the page looked like the first kit but it was silver sparkle instead of black and it had two crashes and said "Your current drum set after a year of gigs".
Old 21st November 2002
  #17
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I think I remember hearing that for the five minutes Jack Irons was in Pearl Jam, he was doing shows with just cymbals, kick and snare. That could be exaggeration, though.

Most startling gear minimalism has to be Dave Navarro, though. A guitar, a Marshall stack, and a handful of Boss pedals, and he's able to do all that? Somewhere in there is a part of why I never made money playing guitar.

Bear
Old 21st November 2002
  #18
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nah, the guy from Rage Against the Machine is right up there. Same deal, guitar, amp and a handful of pedals. FWIW, I got the Audioslave disc the other day and I like what I've had a chance to listen to. Also, it's pretty loud but it hasn't been totally crushed like the Chilli Peppers.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #19
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sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
as per the first part of dis subject....seems i heared somewhere that the pedal of the hour for them nashville cats is that carl martin stuff....could this be true?...also...regarding TONE...aka fender tone....the best i ever heard was an old tele through an old vibrolux turned up to ten and the guitar volume knob doing all the work...ala, volume goes down...tone backs off... volume up, etc....course that guitar's pickups were so microphonic you could sing clearly through em...is this what all those speciallty pickup winders are shootin for????i wonder.........peace
Old 22nd November 2002
  #20
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
as per the first part of dis subject....seems i heared somewhere that the pedal of the hour for them nashville cats is that carl martin stuff....could this be true?
Sure, there's some Carl Martin stuff around - I bought one of the chorus pedals for my dad when I first saw them at the TC Electroncs booth at a NAMM show; his name is Carl.

But the guitar sound that MidlandMorgan was asking about was around long before the Carl Martin pedals - it seems like I remember hearing Brent Mason getting that sound in the 80's, when I moved here and he was playing with the Don Kelly Band.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
course that guitar's pickups were so microphonic you could sing clearly through em...is this what all those speciallty pickup winders are shootin for????i wonder
That's part of the magic spank of a Tele. I had a decent Tele at one point, it was one of those honco-in-mexico deals that came stock with the humbucker in the neck and a 5-position switch. I sold it because it was on the heavy side and bought a Strat to replace it. Don't get me wrong, I dig the Strat but I miss that damn Tele. If anyone has one they want to sell or see's one for sale please drop me a line.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #22
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
...regarding TONE...aka fender tone....the best i ever heard was an old tele through an old vibrolux turned up to ten and the guitar volume knob doing all the work...ala, volume goes down...tone backs off... volume up, etc....course that guitar's pickups were so microphonic you could sing clearly through em...is this what all those speciallty pickup winders are shootin for????i wonder.........peace
Hey that sounds like my clean setup... heh Yeah, a good tele and a Les Paul with mini humbuckers and I'm set for life as far as I'm concerned!
Old 23rd November 2002
  #23
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Totally. Get a bunch of different amps and you can track just about any style of music you can think of.
Old 23rd November 2002
  #24
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, I have acess to a bunch of cool amps to plug my gtrs into... I have a bunch of good friends, all guys I use on sessions, and between us we have a pretty nice collection of instruments/amps that we all share for our respective projects. There are a bunch of nice amps to plug those gtrs into in that lot! A couple champs, a vibrolux, a couple bassman's and cabs, various marshall's from the 70's and early 80's (white JCM800!), some vox's, VHT's, a magnatone, even my B15 is not too shabby for clean gtr parts... I really have to get a good Deluxe though and there's a guy that might sell me a great Bogner that I recorded once.
I guess I'm a gtr amp slut too! yuktyy
Old 23rd November 2002
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For live country, I used a pure class A Trace Elliot Velocette 15 watt job...had a Matchless 12 speaker...and MAN! The tone coming outta that was to die for...but in a moment of financial weakness sold it to do something stupid like pay the rent...

That kind of sound, tele through a clean class A amp, seems to be 'the rage' now, as a LOT of guys (Brad Paisley, et al) are using Dr Z or other variations of Vox AC30s...

To me, its amazing that getting a dirty tone to tape is fairly simple, but getting a robust, clean sound takes an awful lot of work...

Twang on...
Old 23rd November 2002
  #26
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Midlandmorgan

To me, its amazing that getting a dirty tone to tape is fairly simple, but getting a robust, clean sound takes an awful lot of work...
Always - to my ears, that't where the SansAmp falls down, as well as all of the emulator boxes (well, they don't impress me in ANY setting).
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