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PT session files as intellectual property
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #61
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelista ➡️
I've been making a decent living off this stuff for over 10 years. Just sayin'.
What does being in business for 10 years have anything to do with this?
I've been in business for 25 years and as a general rule, I don't give out my sessions.
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #62
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evangelista's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd ➡️
What does being in business for 10 years have anything to do with this?
I've been in business for 25 years and as a general rule, I don't give out my sessions.

That is your right.

My statement was in reference to the claim that no professional would give up session data. i am a professional, and I do. That's all.
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
MickeyMassacre's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I only ever hand over OMF stems with as little processing as possible.
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I never turn in sessions. Earlier this year I had a friend turn in his mix sessions for a major label artist who was on his 7th album. When credits showed on album he miraculously had co-mix mix credit with another engineer from the furnishing label whom he never met and nothing noticeable changed in those mixes. Also, the 3 singles/videos still used the mixes prior to turning in the sessions and they were exact to the album versions after mastering.

The argument that you should be secure enough in your work to turn in your sessions has a flip side- You should be secure enough in your work to not turn in your sessions and continue to keep working as most of us have.
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #65
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Cosmonauta's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelista ➡️
I don't think most people on this forum support themselves with music, though that's here nor there.

I don't give my work away for free. I believe that looking at my mix session will give you minimal knowledge in regards to why I make the choices that I do.

This is a personal choice. If others don't want to give away the mix sessions, that's fine by me. It's not like this is going to get standardized, anyway.

It is my humble opinion that things like routing or compression settings aren't the reason people hire me.
Music production is all I do for a living, maybe that's the reason I care about this subject.

Of course, for me the problem is not people looking at my settings and stole my secretes. I agree this is naive and pointless.

But I do think give clients full ITB mix files where they can open elsewhere with full compatibility is bad to the business. And why not avoid potential problems?

Actually I think people who give mix session files actually are the insecure ones.
Sounds like they need to aggregate this "generosity" as a "value" to compete in the marketing…
Old 12th December 2010
  #66
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Cosmonauta's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
PT session files as intellectual property

Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do
The argument that you should be secure enough in your work to turn in your sessions has a flip side- You should be secure enough in your work to not turn in your sessions and continue to keep working as most of us have.
Thumbs up.

That's my point!
Old 12th December 2010 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibakusha ➡️
Well, in my experience, the higher up you go, the less they give a sh*t, as they know the mix isn't about settings. It's about the ears that made the mix.

The primary difference, afaict, is that my experience is based on talking directly to and/or listening to these men speak about this very issue. I have never known a top-tier engineer to 'not give a ****' about any aspect of the process or business, it's a given that everything matters at all times.

Working at the "A" level has ramifications, one of which is that the wolves are always at your door. It's incredibly hard getting to that place and incredibly hard staying there. Keeping your thinking (notes), your proprietary 'tricks' and effects you've developed, and your overall process private is not optional and has nothing to do with your level of confidence in what you do.

Even managerial relationships have to be kept in check, and left to their own devices the labels will take anything and everything they can to further their own interests. It's an interesting world of conflicting agendas and negotiated trusts; the bottom line is that the only person truly looking out for a mix engineer's best interests 100% of the time is the mix engineer. How they get a song from A to B is the most valuable asset they have, and while 'ears' are clearly at the heart of it, there are lot of mental and technical aspects that very much can be ripped off or studied.

Maybe you've had different conversations with these folks, if so I'd love to hear about that.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 13th December 2010 | Show parent
  #68
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evangelista's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmonauta ➡️
Music production is all I do for a living, maybe that's the reason I care about this subject.

Of course, for me the problem is not people looking at my settings and stole my secretes. I agree this is naive and pointless.

But I do think give clients full ITB mix files where they can open elsewhere with full compatibility is bad to the business. And why not avoid potential problems?

Actually I think people who give mix session files actually are the insecure ones.
Sounds like they need to aggregate this "generosity" as a "value" to compete in the marketing…

It has nothing to do with trying to come off as "generous" or offering some kind of additional "value". It comes down to work flow and the clients' needs.

Some of the work I do is with people with a "DJ mentality", for lack of a better term. The standard BASICS --> OVERDUBS --> MIX procedure is out the window. Files are often sent back and forth globally, mixed, remixed, sampled, dropped into something else, etc. Often no one knows if we're working on a final mix or just something that will weeks later be filtered and dropped into another track all together.

I really like working that way.
Old 13th December 2010 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelista ➡️
It has nothing to do with trying to come off as "generous" or offering some kind of additional "value". It comes down to work flow and the clients' needs.

Some of the work I do is with people with a "DJ mentality", for lack of a better term. The standard BASICS --> OVERDUBS --> MIX procedure is out the window. Files are often sent back and forth globally, mixed, remixed, sampled, dropped into something else, etc. Often no one knows if we're working on a final mix or just something that will weeks later be filtered and dropped into another track all together.

I really like working that way.

Well then you aren't a mix engineer...you are a producer/songrwiter...and yes that is a very different world...seems like the pop world is kinda like this...however I still think you are playing a dangerous game...swapping back and forth and NOT knowing who's done what...feels like someone is guarenteed to get ripped off...just because it isn't YOU right now certainly deosn't mean it wont be..

UBK nailed it..your process is your meal ticket...you can't get a mix done without actually doing it and getting it done means there is a process involved.


ANd BTW...it's this sense of entitlement again with punks these days..it takes years to develop even small things like compression styles and setting that tend to work on different elements...YTF should anyone share their years of hard work with dinks that don't appreciate nor deserve it.
Old 13th December 2010 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by work2do ➡️
When credits showed on album he miraculously had co-mix mix credit with another engineer from the furnishing label whom he never met and nothing noticeable changed in those mixes.
It seems to me that if some lying son of a bitch wants to screw you out of your mixing credit, all it takes is a phone call to the printer. Is there a cause and effect relationship between his turning in the files and his getting screwed like this? What protection does keeping the files provide him from liars?

Did he successfully sue the label? Use his files as evidence in court?

I have been screwed out of credit even when they didn't ASK for my session files, though clearly they used my stereo mix. Maybe I should not give them the mix, either.
Old 13th December 2010 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
I have been screwed out of credit even when they didn't ASK for my session files, though clearly they used my stereo mix. Maybe I should not give them the mix, either.
You gotta nice chip on that shoulder of yours...nobody is saying don't give them a mix, vocal up, TV, instrumental and what have you..they pay for all that...or screw you for it!


But noone has rights YOUR process except you...why would they want it anyway...there is no good reason to have your session, other than to screw you over in some way
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