The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
The great battle of the 'warming devices'
Old 7th November 2002
  #1
The great battle of the 'warming devices'

One day (perhaps after Lord of the rings III) there will be a GREAT BATTLE!

The BATTLE OF THE WARMING DEVICES!

The combatants:

Empirical Labs - Fatso
PSP Warmer
Cranesong Hedd
Sony Inflator
Magnito
DAD Tape
DAD Valve
SPL Machine Head
Tape itself - if some can be found

Let there be a cry across far lands - BRING YE YOUR WARMERS!

VST / MASS/ hardware / software /

Much blood will be spilled in the battle which will rage long and hard so a suitably sized venue must be chosen.

(I can't do it at my place, I host pinochle Thursdays)

So the date may be far away! And the lands the combatants come from far and wide! But the role call of the contestants must surely GROW!

Please add your 'Warming' winners to the above list. Let the list grow, let it EXPAND!

Farewell!

Attached Thumbnails
The great battle of the 'warming devices'-woodstove.jpg  
Old 7th November 2002
  #2
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The great HEDD will destroy all!!
Old 7th November 2002
  #3
SawSlut
 
OzNimbus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: The great battle of the 'warming devices'

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
One day (perhaps after Lord of the rings III) there will be a GREAT BATTLE!



The combatants:


PCP Warmer

Actually I thought it was the "PSP Warmer"

Jules, could that possibly be a "Freudian Slip" as to what your mind is REALLY on?
Old 7th November 2002
  #4
I gave up car lifting years ago!

Old 7th November 2002
  #5
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
actually, the psp VW does so much more than just "warm"... but their MixSaturator would be closer to a simple "warmer"
Old 7th November 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Fibes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I hope to have a version of the Electric Blanket tm out by then.
Old 7th November 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Winter is just about here, I think it is time to turn on the SDE-3000. Those puppies put off so much heat...

That is what you ment, right Jules? evileye
Old 7th November 2002
  #8
Gear Addict
 
largeunit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Which HEDD are we talking about? The old one, the new one, or both?
Old 8th November 2002
  #9
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
I would love to see not just a list of which is "best" but also Why? What do they sound like- strengths and weaknesses, etc etc.

Before the final battle there can be many skirmishes.
Old 8th November 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
mig27's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
telefunken M15a @ lo speed here.

output peaks are always around +3dB, regardless of how hot you record. takes up to +10dB without clipping.

my 2 cents.

michael
Old 8th November 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
"... There can be only one ..."

Gyraf Audio Gyratec X:

http://www.gyraf.dk/gyraf2/g10/g10.jpg

Jakob Erland

Gyraf Audio
Attached Images
The great battle of the 'warming devices'-s_gyratec10.jpg 
Old 8th November 2002
  #12
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Anybody tried the Phoenix plugin from Cranesong?

If so, compared it to the HEDD?

Old 8th November 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Although SoundToys does not have a specific "warmer" what I heard at Digiworld, I think it might have been there FlangeThing plugin (simulates analog tape flanging) really sounded nice and all there plugs are geared towards analog/warm sounding...of the list above I have only used the DAD tape/valve and it wasn't what i was looking for...maybe a bit too subtle for me...

Oh also add McDSP AnalogChannel to the list
Old 9th November 2002
  #14
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I don't know if I have too much wax in my ears but I just don't find the HEDD "warm" sounding. It sounds more like a saturation effect to my ears. But I do find the Fatso "warm" sounding in certain applications. I have actually disconnected the HEDD from my LR bus going to the masterlink. I do however love the converters.

Since I primarily record heavy stuff which is almost always downtuned the Hedd seems to muck things up too much with the tape process. The pentode even at mild settings just sounds like saturation to me and not "warm" I understand what the pentode process is doing and it does it very well but it just seems like it is not adding the desired sound to my mix.

Jules is the HEDD actually making your mixes sound "Warm"? I find the Fatso on the mix buss on the buss setting to sound much better than the Hedd with its processing. Maybe its tracking with the NV and api pres /distressors...etc that is "warming" up the tracks to the point where the HEDD is moot. I might even trade it in for an stc8? Am I insane?
Old 9th November 2002
  #15
"Jules is the HEDD actually making your mixes sound "Warm"? I find the Fatso on the mix buss on the buss setting to sound much better than the Hedd with its processing. Maybe its tracking with the NV and api pres /distressors...etc that is "warming" up the tracks to the point where the HEDD is moot. I might even trade it in for an stc8? Am I insane?"


The Hedd is ENRITCHING my mixes, making them sound bigger less thin and cold. I want to jump out of the window if I move it to bypass. Prior to the Hedd I was addicted to the Digital; Radience Generator function in the Finalizer which has a similar but less elegant action) I want EXTRA on my mix not any sort of 'reduction' (like the Fatso's tape like high frequency limiting)

HOWEVER I can well understand it might over hype your guitars if they are in 'perfect condition' - it WILL make them ritcher and LARGER - perhaps TOO much for your aplication.

As a mix buss compressor I find the STC- 8 real subtle but real expensive sounding - It adds a glow & glue to the mix in a very classy way - but no saturation, so perhaps it could be the box for you...

Old 9th November 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Screws's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Neve Sucks!
The thing is with the Hedd is that it doesΒ΄nt drop the high frequencys like the Fatso. You can get more effect from the Fatso = less treble, more compression. However I thing the Hedd is more true to letΒ΄s say a 1/2" or 1", and the Pentode and Triode adds highs and distortion.
The high frequencies are not "dropped" by the Fatso, per se. The "Warmth" control (7 steps) kick in a de-essing type compressor that attentuates or ducks the highs according to taste. If you want more highs, don't use "Warmth" and hit the input harder. The built in tape saturation emulation will add high harmonics as the input is hotter.

I believe you're saying the same thing, but I felt it needed some clarity to those unfamiliar with the unit so no one thought you lose high end uncontrollably through it.
Old 9th November 2002
  #17
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Jules,
Screws is saying more or less what I was talking about. I don't use the warmth at all with the Fatso on the mix bus but I drive the input so that the orange 0vu light flickers with about 2 DB of reduction on the bus comp. This has been giving me the "warmth" and glue that has been sounding very pleasing to me.

With the Hedd it is more or less making it too saturated and the tape process is bringing up too much of the lower midrange that there is already alot of with these lower tuned guitars and basses that I record. There is definately an "enriched" thing happening but it seems to be too much for my mixes lately. But for the right mix the Hedd is there ready to go if needed. Thats the beauty of having both units like you have said many times............Gotta have both! The STC8 or the C2 is comin next. Wait a minute, you gotta have all 4!grggt
Old 10th November 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

As a mix buss compressor I find the STC- 8 real subtle but real expensive sounding - It adds a glow & glue to the mix in a very classy way - but no saturation, so perhaps it could be the box for you...

Jules,

I thought the Ki / Hara switch added harmonics (saturation) but it is awfully subtle...

We just picked up the STC8 and haven't had a chance to really try it on anything yet, BUT, I'm finding that 'rapping my head' around the settings is a little challenging!

Yes, I know, it varies, and I'll likely wind up in fully variable mode dialing in each individual track, but it would be nice to have a preset or known good starting point...

Any tips or pointers as to good starting points for 2 bus usage? IOW, would you say, start with A mod w/PDS, blah blah blah, etc?

Brad B? Anyone?

Cheers!
Old 10th November 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have the old Hedd unit . . . wonder what the difference really is sonically since it doesn't have the "tape" adjustment
Old 10th November 2002
  #20
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by 2" Tape sucks!
Anybody tried the Phoenix plugin from Cranesong?

If so, compared it to the HEDD?

I don't think the Phoenix Plug in is out yet. I could be wrong though.
Old 11th November 2002
  #21
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My "warmers"...

- Neve pres, or even just running the signal through a Neve line input
- U47 mics
- LA2A comp
- CL1B comp
- Manley Passive, Avalon 2055 or Millenia (valve topology) EQ
- Analog tape...which many devices attempt or claim to simulate but don't really get there.

Jon
Old 12th November 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by blackcatdigi
[B]

Jules,

I thought the Ki / Hara switch added harmonics (saturation) but it is awfully subtle...


Any tips or pointers as to good starting points for 2 bus usage? I]
I've had one for a few years and for 2-buss I usually start with preset C in the upper right quadrant (manual, not program-dependent, release, and attack-modification) I usually dial in the limiter so it chops just a little off the top. The interesting thing about attack-mod is that the limiter hands off to the compressor to make the whole deal smoother. IOW, when the limiter is activated by a peak, it not only limits that peak but also simultaneously reduces the attack time of the compressor stage, so the compressor does some of the work and the process is more transparent.

An easy way to understand the presets knob is this. If you see it as a circle, the top right quadrant is "attack-mod, w/ manual release". The upper left quadrant is "no attack mod, w/ program dependent release". Bottom left is"attack-mod, w/ program dependent release", and the bottom right is "no attack-mod, w/ manual release". Confusing, I know.


Personally I don't find the Ki setting to be all that useful, and usually only really notice it when the release times are fast. I'm sure there are more sophisticated users who could give you more in-depth insights.

My latest fun thing to do is to route my PT mix through the STC-8 and then back into PT where I use a C4 compressor to shape the tonality little.

Rick
Old 12th November 2002
  #23
STC - 8 tips from a novice

Vari area

V setting
Attack 7
Release 0
Gain (to match bypass)
Shape 7
No peak limiting
Ki button engaged

One or two LED's just flickering onj the loudest passages

I had a word with Brad just for a "head check" before printing my first mixes via the STC-8, he said these settings were well within the ballpark although obviously - all mixes need different treatments.

I used Ki because - it sounded better & because I read it smoothed over fast releases (which I had selected by ear)


I can tell you I was ALREADY doing a lot of dynamic control WITHIN the mix, so I was just after some 'glue' to hold it all together...


Old 12th November 2002
  #24
"I have the old Hedd unit . . . wonder what the difference really is sonically since it doesn't have the "tape" adjustment"

Just fine, but minus Tape FX, 96k and built in 16bit dither noise
Old 12th November 2002
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yea I REALLY like mine. When I want to chill out and listen to some cds . . . .I find I can barely listen to commercial cds without running them through the Hedd to make them more 'analog' sounding. It spreads things out and fattens them up nicely.

I have no way of recording 96 to Masterlink with mine though . . eh Jules?
Old 15th November 2002
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
dtobocman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The great battle of the 'warming devices'

I use the PSP plugs for warming (the saturator is really nice), but I also use Steinberg's Magneto tape emulation plug. It's great, but the MixSaturator has 3 tubes and tape emulation to choose from, plus separate bass and treble treatments available (cool compression parameter on the treble section).

Not only does the MixSaturator provide warmth, but girth too.

-- David Tobocman
Old 15th November 2002
  #27
"I have no way of recording 96 to Masterlink with mine though . . eh Jules?"

No, not if it isnt a Hedd 192

Old 15th November 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Jules / Rick,

Thanks for the STC-8 tips. I'll try em out ASAP!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
"I have the old Hedd unit . . . wonder what the difference really is sonically since it doesn't have the "tape" adjustment"
A ME friend of mine claimed to "hate" the original unit... Sent it back, in fact.

But, he uses the new version extensively.

Talk about mileage varying!
Old 15th November 2002
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would like to A / B them . . but I can't afford ($) to see what I am missing . . . . smile
Old 15th November 2002
  #30
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
OOPS,

That quote in my last post was actually KNOX, NOT Jules!

Sorry!
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 154 views: 69006
Avatar for rernst
rernst 18th March 2021
replies: 70 views: 11711
Avatar for OTRM
OTRM 4 weeks ago
replies: 93 views: 22363
Avatar for coso
coso 2 weeks ago
replies: 18381 views: 1396888
Avatar for KPere
KPere 1 hour ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump