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If You Are Making Music In Today's Era What Matters Is How Good You Have It
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1921
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
you left out their pun on "harmony"/"starmoney"

The most terrifying thing about it is this:

just when you thought the Haystack couldn't get any bigger.
All of the people who had nothing to say before and could only convey their precious thoughts via Facebook can now bleat into an app on TikTok. It's kind of the eventual "democratization" that The Voice or America's Got Talent has been the gate keeper on... What a ride!
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1922
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. ➡️
I had an issue with Amazon music always eventually playing a Stone Sour song no matter how many times I'd thumb's down the track and force it to skip. It was like they were taking Stone Sour kickback money or something..
I never even heard of this band before. I had to look them up. The biggest record out now is Olivia Rodrigo's "Sour". Huge. Now [Uthat[/U] might be involved with kickbacks. Maybe you bought a Sly and the Family Stone record recently, and Amazon scrambled them up!




Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Right, it's a mix of functionality. They do try to learn your preferences, but when there is something that requires touting, it's pushed regardless.
IMO this has to be a glitch. In looking them up, I learned that Stone Sour broke up 24 years ago! Even Stone Sour themselves would be spending more on 'pushing' the product than it could possibly return in Plays. I can't imagine it is in anyone's financial interest to "tout" Stone Sour in 2021.

I could see 'kickbacks' applied to any number of artists that are currently releasing records, currently touring and so on. But that is almost always spent as "seed" money. i.e. to get something going. If it doesn't catch fire those kickbacks will soon be applied elsewhere.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1923
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumphysics ➡️
- play something new to an older person and they'll say "that sounds like" -

- a younger person may not have a reference data base in their head -

- often wonder if some people just 'review-judge" music instead of enjoy it.
I think people review-judge music they don't like, and enjoy music they do like.
Everyone reviews in different ways. "That sounds like" is just one of them.
Maybe younger people say "That sounds like boomer music." But that's too generalized. Both younger and older people say many different things about music.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1924
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
I never even heard of this band before. I had to look them up. The biggest record out now is Olivia Rodrigo's "Sour". Huge. Now [Uthat[/U] might be involved with kickbacks. Maybe you bought a Sly and the Family Stone record recently, and Amazon scrambled them up!






IMO this has to be a glitch. In looking them up, I learned that Stone Sour broke up 24 years ago! Even Stone Sour themselves would be spending more on 'pushing' the product than it could possibly return in Plays. I can't imagine it is in anyone's financial interest to "tout" Stone Sour in 2021.

I could see 'kickbacks' applied to any number of artists that are currently releasing records, currently touring and so on. But that is almost always spent as "seed" money. i.e. to get something going. If it doesn't catch fire those kickbacks will soon be applied elsewhere.
Ha! Before someone else corrects you on it, they have been releasing albums in the last five years. I never thought there were kickbacks involved, I was just making a joke because I couldn't get Amazon to stop playing them. If I started with Slayer I'd end up at Stone Sour. Alice In Chains? Stone Sour. Which makes a little sense since they're kind of bland metal with members of Slipknot in it... An acquaintance told me a few years ago they were working on the algos for Amazon and I made a point to ask him to get the app to actually honor my downvotes on SS. They're a good band, I just don't want to listen to them.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1925
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
IMO this has to be a glitch. In looking them up, I learned that Stone Sour broke up 24 years ago! Even Stone Sour themselves would be spending more on 'pushing' the product than it could possibly return in Plays. I can't imagine it is in anyone's financial interest to "tout" Stone Sour in 2021.
Yeah, in that specific case, I'd kind of doubt it. Unless some Stone Sour song has been chosen to be central in some upcoming motion picture, or some such thing. Stone Sour does have a 2017 release... Hydrograd, so they are apparently still in play. But even that is four years ago; an eternity in pop music.

But it's certainly done. We teach it. Multi-Channel Marketing. Basically forcing product visibility over multiple mass media platforms within a restricted time period. One person might see a blitz of activity on one product, and the person next to them might see nothing. Could be a credit card activity that clicks. It might not even be music activity that connects you, but some merch you bought, a movie you streamed over Amazon or a bunch of apps you downloaded to your iPhone.

Pop music is a product that is costing someone money to produce. People want to guaranteed return, at least as close to guarantee as possible, using proven methods.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1926
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. ➡️
All of the people who had nothing to say before and could only convey their precious thoughts via Facebook can now bleat into an app on TikTok.
I thought the girl rapping in her car in the ad actually had some technique. Probably better than 99% of the people who will purchase the app. IMO she was a ringer and deserved a better beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
And if AI ends up generating a hit beat for a hit vocal performance, I'll find it fascinating and enjoyable. .
If? Sure. I am not opposed to AI beats as a matter of 'principle'. If it is enjoyable it is enjoyable, But face it, this is crap. This AI hardly generated what I would call a "fascinating" and "enjoyable" beat.

The first beat was trite and generic and the other two were clearly aimed at some other kind of music. To the point of being inappropriate. It any case , the real test will be after 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 of these songs are uploaded. Care to bet on the the odds that each one be "different" and that at least some will turn out 'interesting' if only by accident? My bet is that after 10,000 Starmoney AI beats, you will be able to recognize the 'Starmoney signature' instantly. Oh this again!

Not that there aren't plenty of humans churning out trite generic beats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
, not threatened by competition or bothered by other's mediocre work in the slightest.
it's not a question of anyone being "bothered" by it. It's a question of everyone being 'buried' by it.

There are 60,000 new songs going up every single day. Even if you were paid to listen to ten seconds each as your full-time job, you do not have the time to make sure you didn't miss a gem. You can pat yourself on the back for whatever your efforts of 'exploring' new music are, but you are obviously only capable of scratching the surface.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1927
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
it's not a question of anyone being "bothered" by it. It's a question of everyone being 'buried' by it.

There are 60,000 new songs going up every single day. Even if you were paid to listen to ten seconds each as your full-time job, you do not have the time to make sure you didn't miss a gem. You can pat yourself on the back for whatever your efforts of 'exploring' new music are, but you are obviously only capable of scratching the surface.
Yeah I'm not bothered by being buried by it. There are so many tastemakers out there at all levels of the game, scouting for good music, who's reputations are built on discovering new good music, that with a bit of intelligent effort you can get your music released with some impact. . . *IF* its actually above par and you're smart about who you send to.

I've tested this the last few years, starting new projects and sending music to label's demo boxes etc completely cold. Ended up getting played by huge million+ DJs at huge clubs (who I didn't even send the music to, it got passed up by lower level people I'd sent it to), with releases lined up on tastemaker labels. I wasn't using any channel unavailable to anyone else, or resting on any cred I'd already built (my "cheesy" pop credentials could actually work against me in these scenes.)

I've asked the people listening about how many submissions they get once a relationship was established. They say 1000s or 10s of 1000s/month. They quickly scroll through giving stuff the 3 second test to eliminate most of it (is it wack? yes? Its out. Is it legit sounding? Yes? Add to the "more serious review" stack for the next round of listening. Cost of each review for this process? 3 seconds, drop the needle in the middle of the track.) Which eliminates 95%+ of what they receive.

Pass the 3 second "its not wack sounding" test, then pass the "the content is actually solid and appropriate for what I represent" test, and you'll be able to get your music out above the noise. When someone likes something I tend to hear back in a matter of days, the people who are serious about this put solid time into it every day so things don't pile up. . its their job.

edit - There's no stopping technology or people wanting to have fun with minimal effort, and these people aren't going to be intelligently sending quality music out to tastemakers. . so its just something else entirely to me. The world can be filled with that kind of hay without affecting things too much IMO. There's a solid organic filtering system that's bubbled up in this new era.

more edit -

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
The first beat was trite and generic and the other two were clearly aimed at some other kind of music. To the point of being inappropriate. It any case , the real test will be after 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 of these songs are uploaded. Care to bet on the the odds that each one be "different" and that at least some will turn out 'interesting' if only by accident? My bet is that after 10,000 Starmoney AI beats, you will be able to recognize the 'Starmoney signature' instantly. Oh this again! .
This is precisely why none of this matters. The same way this. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Not that there aren't plenty of humans churning out trite generic beats!
. . already doesn't matter.

You can get on TikTok and whine about the sea of mediocrity, or you can get on TikTok and find joy in the great creative stuff that gets posted every day. Its your call. Tastemaker's role is to look out for the latter. The sea of noise doesn't affect things too much because people recognize cream. With a bit of correct effort by the creator, it finds its way up.

Last edited by newguy1; 3 days ago at 09:13 PM..
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1928
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. ➡️
Ha! Before someone else corrects you on it, they have been releasing albums in the last five years.
That's what I get for only reading the first paragraph! It said they disbanded in 1997 and I read no further.

Quote:
I never thought there were kickbacks involved, I was just making a joke because I couldn't get Amazon to stop playing them.
Well if they are currently releasing material, maybe it's true! I was reading that Spotify has a deal where you can take a lower royalty in exchange for promotion. Maybe the promotion is scattershot and not targeted? I mean, to me, it seems stupid to "spend" money overriding downvotes. But I suspect it is just a lack of sophistication on their part. Eventually, I bet these things will get ironed out.

Quote:
If I started with Slayer I'd end up at Stone Sour. Alice In Chains? Stone Sour. .. to ask him to get the app to actually honor my downvotes on SS. They're a good band, I just don't want to listen to them.
I have a suspicion that no amount of "exposure" is going to make you like something if you just don't like it. For me as a kid, it was Brussels Sprouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
. It might not even be music activity that connects you,,
indeed. My mom would sometimes buy me a gift and send it to my address. So we got "linked". I would see ads for a toaster oven and be like but then sure enough, she was looking at toaster ovens.

I read that on Spotify they link you to others "like you".. So if large numbers of your fellow Alice In Chains fans ARE also Stone Sour fans, you could get it recommended that way. But I agree, it should certainly respect your downvotes. IMO this is may just be the growing pains of the technology.

I remember when the internet was young and you filled out a form, if you missed even one item, the form bounced and you had to fill out the entire form all over again. Eventually some "genius" figured out how to remember all the fields you did fill out and only make you re-do the one you missed. But it took years as I recall.

Quote:
but some merch you bought
Maybe jeremy.c bought a Sour Patch Kid doll for someone in his family?

Quote:
Pop music is a product that is costing someone money to produce. People want to guaranteed return, at least as close to guarantee as possible, using proven methods.
If you want something guaranteed, you buy US SavingsBonds.. The rewards may be high, but the risks are gigantic. The public is fickle. And besides, if something always 'worked', everybody would do it, and if everybody does it, well it's a zero sum game. Every record would be "tied" for Number One! In which case, nobody makes any money.

Just ask jeremy.c.! I will bet that no matter how many times they promote Stone Sour to them, he is not going to turn into a fan.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1929
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Maybe jeremy.c bought a Sour Patch Kid doll for someone in his family?
Someone?! Sourpatch candy for me all the way!
Quote:
Just ask jeremy.c.! I will bet that no matter how many times they promote Stone Sour to them, he is not going to turn into a fan.
Just the opposite, it made me really want to not hear them!!!
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1930
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
In reality - rarely.

Icons like David Bowie, Mikes Davis, maybe.
Almost all new genres are codified by a new generation (albeit building on the previous generation's music).

In any case, it's another pedantic point. What is the point of arguing what age an innovator generally is? There is no point.
It was an aside - it wasn't an argument.

But there would be a point.. if that's where people consider new music will come from , it becomes self-fulfilling as mentors or money pick "young talent" to help.

The notion itself leads people to ignore the music and instead focus on a kind of "careers" for young people, a leg-up in the industry - fairly contrived of preconceived ideas.

You said you want to see a new generation of talent being nutured. i'm saying I'd want innovating music to be helped along to support itself... It wouldnt even occur to me write "new generation" as it isnt in my head the innovative music comes from only one age group.

Perhaps there does actually need, in society, for older people to be encouraged to be creative and drop rules and stereotypes of what it is to adult or "a professional musician" etc etc. - start by dropping the self-image.

Last edited by nat8808; 3 days ago at 10:34 PM..
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1931
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Spoken like a true consumer.

This is why no government has arts funding, arts ministers, arts councils, foundation funded arts organisations like Sundance. Glyndebourne, The Royal Shakespeare Company, The National Opera.
Because all those (apparently important) societal institutions can keep themselves alive and if they fail that's OK, it's just a natural progression.

The market delivers Jim Davidson, Benny Hill, David Guetta, The Bay City Rollers, Big Brother, The Voice, Love Island.
You're crazy - it's hot, so perhaps you're dehydrated.

You talk about industry and business nuturing innovative product that you desire as a consumer - literally you call yuorself a consumer.

And I am talking about art, about help outside of business and outside of any kind of 'industry' creating consumables. Arts councils, government funding etc are all *outside* of a consumer industry.

EDIT: perhaps you read between the lines and by me ommiting any talk of funding, you thought I disaproved of funding?
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1932
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
TMaybe jeremy.c bought a Sour Patch Kid doll for someone in his family?
Haha, yeah. More reality than most people might believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
TIf you want something guaranteed, you buy US SavingsBonds.. The rewards may be high, but the risks are gigantic. The public is fickle. And besides, if something always 'worked', everybody would do it, and if everybody does it, well it's a zero sum game. Every record would be "tied" for Number One! In which case, nobody makes any money.

Just ask jeremy.c.! I will bet that no matter how many times they promote Stone Sour to them, he is not going to turn into a fan.
Right. Nothing is guaranteed 100%. But marketers learned a valuable lesson (and have never forgotten it) back in1929 from Edward Bernays' "Torches of Freedom" marketing campaign. Who knew that you could get tens of millions of women to risk killing themselves with a silly BS propaganda message?
As long as you have focus firmly on WIIFM (what's in it for me), you can pretty effectively manipulate mass behavior. But it's like quantum science. Things behave very differently at the micro and macro levels. Masses are predictable, but individuals are not.

Asimov's Hari Seldon and his Psychohistory. The bigger the sample, the more accurate the predicted result. It works far better than most people believe. The political manipulation from cult of personality, misinformation campaign occurring in the US right now is as close to visible, absolute proof as anything can get.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1933
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
You're crazy - it's hot, so perhaps you're dehydrated.

You talk about industry and business nuturing innovative product that you desire as a consumer - literally you call yuorself a consumer.

And I am talking about art, about help outside of business and outside of any kind of 'industry' creating consumables. Arts councils, government funding etc are all *outside* of a consumer industry.

EDIT: perhaps you read between the lines and by me ommiting any talk of funding, you thought I disaproved of funding?
Funding and government support are great, but mostly for keeping older stuff alive and encouraging fundamental skills development (at least with music, the Sundance support is pretty cool and unique). I'm not aware of any music trends or artists that took off that were funded by anyone outside some sort of competitive market. Perhaps some in the classical world but never the hot up-and-coming punk/grunge/rock/new wave/synthpop/rave/hip hop/rnb/etc world.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1934
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
I'm not aware of any music trends or artists that took off that were funded by anyone outside some sort of competitive market.
I was talking about the proposal that innovative but unpopular music can either survive or die based on 'the market'.
It is well understood that 'the market' largely creates Love Island, McDonalds, New Kids On The Block.

In the era when most money was sloshing around the music industry (70's and 80's), there was enough funding that independent labels could discover and nurture less popular new music. That music became popular over a year or two and the more money focussed major labels picked up on it.
The streaming companies who are now the dominant force in music, plus their financial partners, the major labels, are NOT interested in nurturing new music, they are just interested in music that is making the most money NOW. That is how the streaming algorithm is designed.
This is NEW, this is not how the music industry used to work.
Is it nurturing as much quality new music and new genres as were nurtured in the 70's and 80's?
Look around, I say no.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1935
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
You're crazy - it's hot, so perhaps you're dehydrated.
Again, dismiss the person - instead argue your point without bringing criticism of other posters into your text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
Let the art and music keep itself alive by natural progression - which includes some periods of natural stagnation.

There should be no long-term vision of a "business" in the art world. Business necessarily needs predictibilty and homogenaity, stability and business always implies growth. art and music is unpredictable in nature, can come and go quickly and can grow and shrink. Applying business to art means controlling art to suit the needs of the business.
As I clearly pointed out, natural progression is dictated by 'the market'. You have to see/hear the music for it to be funded. The current model doesn't allow innovative music to be seen or heard, it IS ALL about feeding people music they already know and like.
You seriously don't think business controls music right now?
This was the basis of the university research I posted earlier - that the streaming playlists largely favour music from the streaming company's major label partners. Both the university and MP inquiries found that independent labels and independent artists were largely smothered by the juggernought of the major streaming and major label alliance.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1936
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
If you can’t get a tastemaker excited about your music (small label, small scene, DJ, manager, agent, other artist, promoter, blogger, influencer, viral success, playlist curator, there are 1000s upon 1000s of people/scenes), it’s simply sub-par and doesn't deserve to be listened to anymore than the millions of bands who never got a deal in the past.
Nooooo.
All these people are 100% about making money. Bloggers, influencers, playlist curators. They are doing it as a job, as a career. The money is so tight they are monetising everything. Access to their followers and patrons, they sell coffee mugs and t-shirts.
The way to get traction with playlist curators and influencers is to pay the fee they demand.
If you say that artists that don't pay the fees of influencers and playlisters are sub-par, then you are incredibly naive.
The research I posted showed the free playlists that are influential are dominated by major label artists, because they have a financial interest in the streaming companies, and therefore strong influence on them .
So if you aren't on a major label and can't gain access to an important playlist your music must be 'sub-par'?
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1937
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Some incredible denial or naivety going on here.
Example fees:
Quote:
TikTok: $25 per post / 1,000 followers

Instagram: $10 per post / 1,000 followers, $250-$750 per 1,000 engagements

Facebook: $25 per post / 1,000 followers

YouTube: $20 per video / 1,000 subscribers, $50-$100 per 1,000 video views

Snapchat: $10 per post / 1,000 followers

Twitter: $2 per post / 1,000 followers

Blog: $60 per post / 1,000 unique visitors
Most of the bloggers and influencers who are worth engaging have 25k followers and more, so multiply that $50-100 by several times.
https://nealschaffer.com/how-much-to-pay-influencer/
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius ➡️
I don't hate it.

Trash is definitely too strong a word.

Pajama Rap is what it reminds me of. I half expect Thundercat (who is awesome) to show up in a fuzzy pink onesie.
ha ha , definitely thundercat needs to pass through in his onesie.....have you seen

"let me slap just once" ,,,brilliant lol
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1939
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Funding and government support are great, but mostly for keeping older stuff alive
Like modern art, contemporary dance, opera and modern jazz?

Incredible lack of insight.

Quote:
Funding can also be key when developing new, experimental or challenging work. Funding provides the space for artists to take risks and make the leaps that challenge us to think differently – which is exactly what great art should do.
Of course, it isn’t all one way. Funding the arts is an investment, an investment that reaps huge rewards. Bodies like Arts Council England state that for every £1 invested, the nation benefits by £4 of rewards.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1940
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️

You can get on TikTok and whine about the sea of mediocrity, or you can get on TikTok and find joy in the great creative stuff that gets posted every day. Its your call. Tastemaker's role is to look out for the latter.
Tastemaker's role is to look for the next dollar.
It's no criticism of them per say, it's how the system is designed.
It's a money go round that takes free content (made by creatives) and monetises it for the benefit of influencers and the platforms (Tok-Tok, Youtube, Spotify etc).
If you are lucky you cam earn between $200 and $1000 a year as a music creator. Then take off the fees you paid all those influencers.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
I seldom agree with him. But I think he's got you here. The song sounds like a Weird Al remake.

And as for the credit due for bridging gaps. Artists aren't making the $$$ they used to. You'll see all kinds of weird attempts to reach more audiences as a result.

Stepping out of your lane is only cool if you make something cool.
....weird al! cold blooded bro lol

i knew trippie redd would get shot down in this thread but still went for it lol

i enjoy GS debates (when they're not personalised ) ...
so respectfully, in good humour... i would challenge some people in this thread to consider the possible irony in viewing young folks (still developing themselves musically) in a negative light, imo really appreciating music is to learn that so much music is just about personal taste....how it hits you doesn't mean it hits someone else the same way. These artists imo are in the first stages of being creative (as opposed to all the other negative pastimes young people can face in my city for sure...and I'm aware in other cities globally)....

Trippie isn't even my fav artist....but if you listen to the whole of his project with travis its IMO a good effort. Those particular chord progressions of american pop punk rock (a la green day and blink 182 ) are all over the record and imo are very effective songwriting....
and as much as i deeply appreciate serban ghenea and john hanes godly mix work on max martin/dr luke songwriting masterclasses....

sometimes some people want something that's far from perfect and weird and different.....just because and people go mad to this stuff....and i get why...its anarchic.
A lot of bands that later became lauded were "terrible" in the start....and defo got called trash by the older generations....some even wanted to be seen as trash by elders eg. where they just had a completely different musical aesthetic
""never mind the bollocks" ? ....

Some nights we host talent shows in a community centre in my area for teen rappers and producers in the community....they write and perform their own work ...sell tickets....and hundreds of em come out for each other and perform and go crazy to each others work.
For the time they are writing and performing this music...they are free from the negatives of our community...thats a beautiful thing imo.\

To the point of the OP. Nowadays:
All you need is a basic laptop a spinz 808, a moog vst,a drum pack, a mad synth sound...and energy...and you can change your life

ill just leave this here for general bemusement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWGIl1pPBo8
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1942
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
I was talking about the proposal that innovative but unpopular music can either survive or die based on 'the market'.
It is well understood that 'the market' largely creates Love Island, McDonalds, New Kids On The Block.

In the era when most money was sloshing around the music industry (70's and 80's), there was enough funding that independent labels could discover and nurture less popular new music. That music became popular over a year or two and the more money focussed major labels picked up on it.
The streaming companies who are now the dominant force in music, plus their financial partners, the major labels, are NOT interested in nurturing new music, they are just interested in music that is making the most money NOW. That is how the streaming algorithm is designed.
This is NEW, this is not how the music industry used to work.
Is it nurturing as much quality new music and new genres as were nurtured in the 70's and 80's?
Look around, I say no.
Got to hand it to you, there was a lot more "weird" music in the mainstream in the 70s and 80s, I mean that in a good way.

I mean come on, phil collins, talking heads, frankie zappa, beefheart's magic band, earth wind and fire, herbie hancock, mr. fingers, tina turner. Even Sir Paul got weird in the 80s, Neil Young with his retro future nonsense. I don't know what people were drinking back then but that shnip was odd.

Last edited by monkeyxx; 3 days ago at 11:19 AM..
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1943
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Simply put....
People could take risks and still make money and still be heard.







Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1944
Lives for gear
 
Zed999's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostman ➡️
""never mind the bollocks" ? ....
Slightly off-topic... or maybe not.
This album when it finally came out had already missed the boat. Compared to where rebelious music was already heading it sounded slow and ponderous and clean. All the elements were already out of date. I still bought it though. Things were moving fast back then.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed999 ➡️
Slightly off-topic... or maybe not.
This album when it finally came out had already missed the boat. Compared to where rebelious music was already heading it sounded slow and ponderous and clean. All the elements were already out of date. I still bought it though. Things were moving fast back then.
wow sex pistols ponderous, clean and slow , lol.......interesting stuff....and hard to imagine
so is that description relative to other uk punk acts at the time...or the NYC punk scene?
(and Don't new york and london argue over who invented punk as well)\

who would you credit as the pioneers truly in that scene at the time ?

(re: the sex pistols , im aware of malcolm mclaren running the sex clothes shop on the kings road with vivienne westwood and looking at the fashion trend and i think he credits himself for concocting the concept of a band to bring it all together (eg the sex pistols)
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1946
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Got to hand it to you, there was a lot more "weird" music in the mainstream in the 70s and 80s, I mean that in a good way.

I mean come on, phil collins, talking heads, frankie zappa, beefheart's magic band, earth wind and fire, herbie hancock, mr. fingers, tina turner. Even Sir Paul got weird in the 80s, Neil Young with his retro future nonsense. I don't know what people were drinking back then but that shnip was odd.
None of these were ever indie artists. They just were artists that did not go for making pop fluff. Zappa was a major artist and a powerful force in the California music industry even as far back in the late 60s.. Beefheart to an extend was the embodiment of California eccentricity but he too was tied to Warner/Reprise and worked with people like Ted Templeman and Russ Titleman. Not indie artists at all.

btw.. indie labels did not have a lot of money and indie bands did not make a lot of money nor did they get much support. I dont know what Chrisso is talking about. Indie bands toured and bitched how they were broke.

What is weird music and how much you listen to it is all in the beholder. Most people listened to the Eagles and ABBA.. but some liked more off beat stuff. Personally.. the current environment allows a lot of really good off center music to make its way through.. and needs very little involvement from a record label..It all depends on how good the music is. I recently picked up Music for Drones and it was not because of major promotion.. its because I thought his music was cool. No booty videos or sappy vocals needed to promote it.. It stands on its own.

https://nickbeggs.bandcamp.com/releases

You still have artists that push into more alt stuff.. Its not true that majors control tastes. Majors just control the Top of the Pops stuff which they always did.. Anyone remember the popularity of Bucks Fizz? :0)
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1947
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
Personally.. the current environment allows a lot of really good off center music to make its way through.. and needs very little involvement from a record label..It all depends on how good the music is. I recently picked up Music for Drones and it was not because of major promotion..
Of course the guy was in an absolutely massive boy band and now plays bass for one of the most well known progressive artists.
But he needed very little involvement from the industry to 'break through'
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1948
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
Zappa was a major artist and a powerful force in the California music industry even as far back in the late 60s.. Beefheart to an extend was the embodiment of California eccentricity but he too was tied to Warner/Reprise and worked with people like Ted Templeman and Russ Titleman. Not indie artists at all.
Yeah, my ACTUAL point being they were financially resourced, nurtured and promoted by the labels.
The video clips I posted were from very popular tv shows of the time, exposing lots of music fans to stuff they never dreamed they would like.
The artists weren't handicapped by an algorithm that only pushed already successful music and only the style the streaming subscriber already knows and likes.

Maybe you can't grasp these nuanced, but however important, points?
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1949
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed999 ➡️
This album when it finally came out had already missed the boat. Compared to where rebelious music was already heading it sounded slow and ponderous and clean.
Well it represented the point where punk went mainstream.
As I was saying, back in the day this was a very swift process. The inception of punk being around 1976/77, major label A&M signed the Pistols in March 1977.
The finished album eventually came out in late 1977 on Virgin (another major label), was a hit album that spawned hit singles.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1950
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Of course the guy was in an absolutely massive boy band and now plays bass for one of the most well known progressive artists.
But he needed very little involvement from the industry to 'break through'
What does that have to do with anything? My point is, he is releasing music that majors would not touch and is doing perfectly fine. He does not have to worry about a label dropping him. Is selling because its good instrumental music and he knows how to play and compose.

btw.. Kajagogo were massive for a very very short time. Nothing compared to Duran or Depeche Mode... Maybe members of Kajagogo had better musicians than you realize?
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