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Analog vs Digital Emulations - A culinary comparison
Old 6th May 2021
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Analog vs Digital Emulations - A culinary comparison

Hi everyone. I’ve been following this forum forever and remember posting here back in the days.
Anyway I was following another thread about the ethereal fight between analog and digital emulation and I think I came up with a good analogy.

“You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use more expensive fresh ingredients (analog gear) or a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives (plugins).
Like modern plug-ins, some food additives can improve the results in better ways than old school methods, I’ll give you that.
But if you are telling me that the emulations sounds the same as the original hardware, it’s like saying a dish made with garlic powder has the same taste than one made with fresh garlic.
Just because you don’t hear the difference, doesn’t mean it’s not there.”

What you guys think about this? Does this at least clarify the ethereal dilemma?
Old 6th May 2021
  #2
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
No.
Old 6th May 2021 | Show parent
  #3
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate ➡️
No.
Care to elaborate?
Old 7th May 2021
  #4
Gear Addict
You have just found an analogy that suits your view. What makes you think analog vs digital equals out to fresh vs dehydrated? Your comparison is based on a biased interpretation. On a personal level this is completely ok. On the other hand someone else could easily say analog vs digital is like a VCR tape vs a streaming service. It’s just fill in the blank with whatever suits your preference.
Old 7th May 2021
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padano ➡️
Hi everyone. I’ve been following this forum forever and remember posting here back in the days.
Anyway I was following another thread about the ethereal fight between analog and digital emulation and I think I came up with a good analogy.

“You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use more expensive fresh ingredients (analog gear) or a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives (plugins).
Like modern plug-ins, some food additives can improve the results in better ways than old school methods, I’ll give you that.
But if you are telling me that the emulations sounds the same as the original hardware, it’s like saying a dish made with garlic powder has the same taste than one made with fresh garlic.
Just because you don’t hear the difference, doesn’t mean it’s not there.”

What you guys think about this? Does this at least clarify the ethereal dilemma?
Not bad but I like to think of digtial emulations kinda like that plastic fruit you can buy at the department store as opposed to real fruit you can buy at the grocery store. But let's be adults here, emulations are for lazy people.
Old 7th May 2021
  #6
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Arthur Stone's Avatar
 
90 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Salt reduction correlates with rise in infectious disease. Metaphor.
Old 7th May 2021
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padano ➡️
...

“You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use more expensive fresh ingredients (analog gear) or a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives (plugins).
Like modern plug-ins, some food additives can improve the results in better ways than old school methods, I’ll give you that.
But if you are telling me that the emulations sounds the same as the original hardware, it’s like saying a dish made with garlic powder has the same taste than one made with fresh garlic.
Just because you don’t hear the difference, doesn’t mean it’s not there.”

...
Stupid. At best.

It's not an analogy, it's simply an image you made up for your own self assurance. Leads to nothing.

BTW: Who cares how the sound someone wants is achieved? Answer: Nobody. This kind of "discussions" are nothing but a waste of time done by people with no clue whatsoever and for the sake of appearing as "intellectual musician".

Old 7th May 2021
  #8
Xnr
Gear Maniac
 
Xnr's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padano ➡️
“You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use more expensive fresh ingredients (analog gear) or a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives (plugins).
Let me fix that for you:

You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use fresh and creative ingredients (plugins) or good old grandma style onion and garlic (analog gear).
Old 7th May 2021
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Bunch of rude Mezzo Fortes on this website. Lighten up.
Old 7th May 2021
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I will use an 1176 as an example.

The original version had some magic to them.
The current version from UA does not have the same magic.
There are many good copies on the market. Do any have magic, most like the Audioscape version.

There are also 100 software emulations. Most like the UAD version or one specific native version.

Taking a step back. for about 30 years now I decided there was about 100 pieces of magic gear that are desirable. Examples include Hammond B3, 9' Stienway, U87 classic, and 97 other items.

Just about every one of those 100 hardware items have a software version of them.

Moving ITB is not an improvement on sound quality. But it's required for cost and speed of turn around in todays market. There are exception based on the specifics on the music.
Old 8th May 2021
  #11
Gear Nut
 
In blind conditions few can tell the garlic and the powder apart, and in the dish almost no one. But when it's not blind you convince yourself the dish with fresh garlic must taste better because of all the work you had to do peeling the garlic.
Old 8th May 2021 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroko ➡️
Bunch of rude Mezzo Fortes on this website. Lighten up.
I agree!

Calling tools that many engineers here successfully use every day: "a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives" is incredibly rude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padano
...and remember posting here back in the days.
I bet your 'analogy' would have gotten plenty of likes in 2003
Old 8th May 2021 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeraz ➡️
Not bad but I like to think of digtial emulations kinda like that plastic fruit you can buy at the department store as opposed to real fruit you can buy at the grocery store. But let's be adults here, emulations are for lazy people.
Lexicon hardware reverbs were/are digital algorithms on a chip....emulating real spaces. Same for Bricasti. Am I too lazy to drive over to a canyon to set up a mic/spkr send/return in order to have a real, analog, seven second canyon reverb? Yep.

Also, those who buy plastic fruit and eat it....I'm not discussing anything with those types.
Old 8th May 2021 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Calling tools that many engineers here successfully use every day: "a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives" is incredibly rude.
Perhaps causes g.a.s
Old 8th May 2021
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padano ➡️
Hi everyone. I’ve been following this forum forever and remember posting here back in the days.
Anyway I was following another thread about the ethereal fight between analog and digital emulation and I think I came up with a good analogy.

“You are a Chef at a restaurant and you are making a meal for your customers (the mix). You can either use more expensive fresh ingredients (analog gear) or a bunch of dehydrated powders and chemical additives (plugins).
Like modern plug-ins, some food additives can improve the results in better ways than old school methods, I’ll give you that.
But if you are telling me that the emulations sounds the same as the original hardware, it’s like saying a dish made with garlic powder has the same taste than one made with fresh garlic.
Just because you don’t hear the difference, doesn’t mean it’s not there.”

What you guys think about this? Does this at least clarify the ethereal dilemma?
I can't relate to it. I eat anything within reason, I only eat once a day, and as long as it has nothing to do with seafood, I pretty much don't give a f*** how it's made if I find it tasty. I eat, get full, sm happy. I'm also a vegetarian now....but am not very good at it.....so ingredients don't make a diff. Garlic powder and fresh garlic...I dunno.....what's in Stouffers? What's the highend opposite of Kraft Macaroni & cheese?

I probably like all of them.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle ➡️
Lexicon hardware reverbs were/are digital algorithms on a chip....emulating real spaces. Same for Bricasti.
In general Digital reverbs are not emulations. There is no difference between a plugin running on a computer and an outboard digital hardware reverb. They are virtually identical in all aspects. The only difference is a modern DAW setup has better converters than the old hardware reverb which hare noisy and grainy sounding.
Old 9th May 2021
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Here are a few fun relative sayings I have used.

Mixing is like making a soup. You cant overfill the bowl, but you can decide what it tastes like.

Mic are like paint brushes to make a painting of sound.
Old 9th May 2021
  #18
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Something like, "Get out of my kitchen."
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeraz ➡️
Not bad but I like to think of digtial emulations kinda like that plastic fruit you can buy at the department store as opposed to real fruit you can buy at the grocery store. But let's be adults here, emulations are for lazy people.
Sure, all those “lazy” people who edit, mix, compose and produce thousands of hours of media content from tv, to film to video games are just sitting around doing nothing at all, while getting great sounds.

Hard to believe.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #20
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 ➡️
Sure, all those “lazy” people who edit, mix, compose and produce thousands of hours of media content from tv, to film to video games are just sitting around doing nothing at all, while getting great sounds.

Hard to believe.
Dude's been on here for a hot minute and 90% of his takes are garbage.
Old 9th May 2021
  #21
Lives for gear
 
signalpudding's Avatar
 
Buying an 1176 is no different than buying a ready made soup.

A real chef makes his soup from onions and garlic and a real engineer makes his compressor from resistors and capacitors.

Turning a knob on an 1176 you bought to get your sound is no different than turning a knob on your stove to heat up your soup.

I respect a chef even more if he grows his own vegetables which is why I make all my own components from scratch from materials I've mined myself.

It's disheartening that more engineers aren't willing to put in that kind of effort anymore but I guess it's just cause people are lazy now.
Old 9th May 2021
  #22
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
OP, This may be the point where I curse at you in French and hurl a cast iron skillet in your general direction.

Analog/Digital, Fresh/Chemicals is not a good analogy. A better one might be that each are spices from different cultures, and even that is a stretch. They're all spices, the skill of the chef determines how good the meal is based on how he uses them with the main ingredients (the audio).
Old 9th May 2021
  #23
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Arthur Stone's Avatar
 
90 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Given the choice between fresh Madagascan Giant Vanilla pods (analogue) and the vanilla flavouring made from the secretions from a beavers anal gland (digital) I'd choose....[fill in your answer here]
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 ➡️
Sure, all those “lazy” people who edit, mix, compose and produce thousands of hours of media content from tv, to film to video games are just sitting around doing nothing at all, while getting great sounds.

Hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe TV producers would use tape sims and mic preamp emulations. I just don't believe it. The only people I know who use that stuff are the weekend warriors who's studios are built around behringer gear. My 'lazy' comment was directed towards people who are too lazy to $save$ up for the real equipment. The last thing a real producer would do is use an emulation. they would presumably have access to the real device and they would presumably know that emulations sound bad and will degrade your mixes.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeraz ➡️
I find it hard to believe TV producers would use tape sims and mic preamp emulations. I just don't believe it. The only peole I know who use that stuff are the weekend warriors who use behringer gear,
Highly skilled people use the best tools available to them, the fact they feel plugins might fulfill that role may be “hard for you to believe”, but is a testament to how well they work.

Perhaps you need to get out more.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeraz ➡️
I find it hard to believe TV producers would use tape sims and mic preamp emulations. I just don't believe it. The only people I know who use that stuff are the weekend warriors who's studios are built around behringer gear. My 'lazy' comment was directed towards people who are too lazy to $save$ up for the real equipment. The last thing a real producer would do is use an emulation. they would presumably have access to the real device and they would presumably know that emulations sound bad and will degrade your mixes.
As if a TV producer would even know or care that their Post guy used a tape sim plugin.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone ➡️
Given the choice between fresh Madagascan Giant Vanilla pods (analogue) and the vanilla flavouring made from the secretions from a beavers anal gland (digital) I'd choose....[fill in your answer here]
Stop, you're making me hungry.
Old 9th May 2021
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Robby in WA's Avatar
More like using a neuro-fuzzy rice cooker to make rice, or a pressure cooker for a stew, as opposed to cooking it on the stove. Pretty much same result, one's just easier, faster, and replicable.
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 ➡️

Perhaps you need to get out more.
will do, thanks
Old 9th May 2021 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
i've got tons of excellent digital gear which simply cannot get emulated in the analog domain...
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