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Bass chain
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #61
PMF
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
had good results with the following setups, depending on the bass and playing technique:

- Golden Age Premier PRE-73
- Radial BassBone
- SWR Bassic Black Combo

all into a Clarett Octopre > RayDat > DAW

for all other bass effects like comp, EQ, chorus/flange/phaser, saturation, I use plugins
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➡️
No.

Straight in to the Hi-Z input.

You'll have plenty of tone to play with just using the Gain & Output controls to saturate the op-amp in the traditional fashion.

---

EDIT: And by the way, never mind that stupid Wham cover - check out this livestream concert recording from just a couple of weeks ago:

I have a completely different style, but she is extremely talented and plays bass since she was eight and it is always fun to watch her playing. I'm in love with her left hand, incredible. Although I have problems with the kind of sounds fusion musicians are into she is much more into music than most radical slappers I have heard.
I grew up with Kraftwerk and later Postpunk and I always couldn't get the cheesiness of the sounds of even Pastorious and Weather Report - esp. after listening to what other musicians did with these synths. From New Order to Portishead etc.
But it is important for me to state that she is a great player and musician. This Wham! piece was really just for fun and it is fun.
I'm still jealous of her technique. Bass was my first instrument and I started late, when I was 18.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #63
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
I have a completely different style, but she is extremely talented and plays bass since she was eight and it is always fun to watch her playing. I'm in love with her left hand, incredible. Although I have problems with the kind of sounds fusion musicians are into she is much more into music than most radical slappers I have heard.
I grew up with Kraftwerk and later Postpunk and I always couldn't get the cheesiness of the sounds of even Pastorious and Weather Report - esp. after listening to what other musicians did with these synths. From New Order to Portishead etc.
But it is important for me to state that she is a great player and musician. This Wham! piece was really just for fun and it is fun.
I'm still jealous of her technique. Bass was my first instrument and I started late, when I was 18.
Yeah, I haven't cared much for Weather Report myself. The kind of music my music teachers listened to when I was in high-school, and I thought of them as dinosaurs. Now I'm getting old myself, and kids nowadays probably feels the same way about the music I listen to. The circle of life, isn't it beautiful?
That being said, I acknowledge their incredible talent even though their music doesn't do it for me.
I am a big fan of Kraftwerk, but I can see how people may feel that this sounds cheesy as well or like a cliché. Still they were the ones inventing the clichés. After all clichés are clichés because they've been repeated and copied numerous times, and even though we may be tired of them today they became what they are because there was a fundemental quality to them in the first place.. Or something..

Cheers,
another dinosaur

EDIT: I believe I started this thread to get some advice on my bass chain. So much for staying on topic! Sorry, guys and girls, but I do enjoy a good discussion. Thanks for inputs on preamps and DIs

Anyway, like I said I bought the WA12 mkii, and I believe it’s working like intended. Not a whole world of difference to my tone, but more amp-like and a subtle taming of transients. I think maybe I’ll get a HW compressor as well. Looking at the Klark 76 KT which is super-affordable. It gets a lot of praise for the value, and of course a lot of bashing as well. Since I don’t play in Weather Report I’m thinking it’s probably good enough for me
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Anyway, like I said I bought the WA12 mkii, and I believe it’s working like intended. Not a whole world of difference to my tone, but more amp-like and a subtle taming of transients. I think maybe I’ll get a HW compressor as well. Looking at the Klark 76 KT which is super-affordable. It gets a lot of praise for the value, and of course a lot of bashing as well. Since I don’t play in Weather Report I’m thinking it’s probably good enough for me
I have both the Klark Teknik 76-KT and an upgraded KT-2a (Kenetek T4b opto + Harma Retro tubes) that I use with my Warm TB12's. The 76-KT is quite a clean sounding compressor and I personally prefer the KT-2a with bass though it is more expensive and harder to get hold of.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #65
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
I have both the Klark Teknik 76-KT and an upgraded KT-2a (Kenetek T4b opto + Harma Retro tubes) that I use with my Warm TB12's. The 76-KT is quite a clean sounding compressor and I personally prefer the KT-2a with bass though it is more expensive and harder to get hold of.
I only have experience with plugin versions of these compressor, but I usually prefer the ‘76 on bass and the 2A on electric guitar amongst other things. With the KT’s it may be a whole different story. Nice to hear from someone who owns both.
The 2A is a bit more pricey, but it still makes a pretty good bang for the buck I can imagine. It’s tube and has stereolink, right?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
I only have experience with plugin versions of these compressor, but I usually prefer the ‘76 on bass and the 2A on electric guitar amongst other things. With the KT’s it may be a whole different story. Nice to hear from someone who owns both.
The 2A is a bit more pricey, but it still makes a pretty good bang for the buck I can imagine. It’s tube and has stereolink, right?
Yes the KT-2a has a stereo link output
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
s.d.finley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If I am doing straight DI only for bass then I use the UA 6176, skipping the '76 part. I suppose a 610 pre would get the job done in that case. If I am tracking an amp and DI at the same time then both get the Neve treatment. 1073 pre amp. I notice the non tube DI has a little more transient response, using a Radial passive DI. Then I will use an 1176 to help control any peaks. Amp wise, for me I use my vintage Marshall JCM 800 Super Bass II. Clean and punchy. Not like a Marshall guitar amp at all. For other bassist I typically use their amp unless it sucks then they can use the Marshall, Mark Bass, or as another poster suggests SWR Studio 220. I have a Hiwatt DR200 clone but I don't let other people use it
Old 3 weeks ago
  #68
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Demo the Brainworx SVT-VR, B15 and V4b. They are often on sale crazy cheap and one side of the SVT was recently free. These are really excellent sounding plugins, so much better than any guitar amp sims I’ve ever used.

Acustica Audio has a free plugin called Coffee. It’s a Pultec style Eq. Boost and cut at 50hz, or read up on the Pultec low end trick.

When you get the low end right you’ll find you can play more consistent and need less compression. I really like the Softube Summit TLA-100 in parallel. Something about that comp just kills on bass and ac gtr.

Hardware compression is great but is often better after the amp sims, so I wouldn’t print the DI track with it on if I know I’m using the amp sims.

Last edited by guavadude; 3 weeks ago at 05:22 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #69
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Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Agreed, all the Brainworx Ampeg plugs are excellent. Those are my go-tos and they seriously deliver.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #70
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Demo the Brainworx SVT-VR, B15 and V4b. They are often on sale crazy cheap and one side of the SVT was recently free. These are really excellent sounding plugins, so much better than any guitar amp sims I’ve ever used.

Acustica Audio has a free plugin called Coffee. It’s a Pultec style Eq. Boost and cut at 50hz, or read up on the Pultec low end trick.

When you get the low end right you’ll find you can play more consistent and need less compression. I really like the Softube Summit TLA-100 in parallel. Something about that comp just kills on bass and ac gtr.

Hardware compression is great but is often better after the amp sims, so I wouldn’t print the DI track with it on if I know I’m using the amp sims.
Thanks for sound advice!
Guess I'll have to download a Pultec type eq. Waves has one cheap as well. Come to think of it: Have you ever paid full price for a plugin?

I'm sure the Brainworx plugs are great, and I can see Progger seconds that. I couldn't find out if they are available in VST (I use cubase). Do you know?

One thing I can't seem to work my head around: You say that HW comp works better after the amp(sim), and I can see why.
Why not use the line-out of an amp-head > comp > interface when recording at home instead of DI's, preamps and amp-plugins? Of course, a quality amp-head costs a bit, but so does all the Neve-clones mentioned in this thread. Is there something I am missing?
Here is a small budget version of the classic Ampeg you are referring to: https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-an...c-Micro-VR/9HB. I'm sure it's not up against the original, but I bet it's good enough.

BTW: I do this on electric guitar. I have a Carvin combo with line-out, cabinet bypassed. Works like a charm. Not as good as micing a cabinet, but really practical recording in an apartment. Only thing I miss is the interaction between pick-ups and speaker (feedback).
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.d.finley ➡️
If I am doing straight DI only for bass then I use the UA 6176, skipping the '76 part. I suppose a 610 pre would get the job done in that case. If I am tracking an amp and DI at the same time then both get the Neve treatment. 1073 pre amp. I notice the non tube DI has a little more transient response, using a Radial passive DI. Then I will use an 1176 to help control any peaks. Amp wise, for me I use my vintage Marshall JCM 800 Super Bass II. Clean and punchy. Not like a Marshall guitar amp at all. For other bassist I typically use their amp unless it sucks then they can use the Marshall, Mark Bass, or as another poster suggests SWR Studio 220. I have a Hiwatt DR200 clone but I don't let other people use it
All nice amps! I bet you have great tone!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
My favorite "Pultec" right now is the Bettermaker from Plugin Alliance, I was just using it on bass on my tracks yesterday, it's magic for this. Also great on mix bus/master. It's clean and it has extra filters.

For a "vintage style" pultec I'd grab the UAD or the Noise Ash Rule Tec Heritage Pro, both excellent. These will have a little more color to them.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #73
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
My favorite "Pultec" right now is the Bettermaker from Plugin Alliance, I was just using it on bass on my tracks yesterday, it's magic for this. Also great on mix bus/master. It's clean and it has extra filters.

For a "vintage style" pultec I'd grab the UAD or the Noise Ash Rule Tec Heritage Pro, both excellent. These will have a little more color to them.
Pretty expensive, though. Think I’ll save the $$ and spend it on outboard gear instead. That’s what turns me on these days.

Btw: Are UAD plugs only compatible with UA-interfaces? I use a RME running Vst’s in Cubase.
From what I can tell from their web-site the Brainworx Ampeg-sims mentioned before run exclusively on UA-gear.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don’t have a bass amp as I’m a multi instrumentalist only recording not gigging.
I was considering using an amp but those BX sims are so good I don’t see the need.
Also I prefer to invest in stuff that gets used in a variety of ways.

My chain is a Great River pre, has amazing low end, that goes into a Zod tube DI, into a PBC-6a fat and slow compressor or an old Valley People 440 fast vca comp.
This gives me some great tonal options for DI recording. But I’ll typically bypass the compressors when using the amp sim. I can also use just the Zod for old school tube vibe but the GR with the Zod is really the best of both and I can use those on a bunch of other sources.

The Noise Ash Heritage mentioned or that AA Coffee are the pultecs I use the most.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #75
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Pretty expensive, though. Think I’ll save the $$ and spend it on outboard gear instead. That’s what turns me on these days.

Btw: Are UAD plugs only compatible with UA-interfaces? I use a RME running Vst’s in Cubase.
From what I can tell from their web-site the Brainworx Ampeg-sims mentioned before run exclusively on UA-gear.
The Plugin Alliance plugins go on sale regularly. See the mega thread and have your mind blown, haha. But once you enter you can never leave.

I got the UAD really cheap also, on a sale.

You can use a UAD Satellite to run the plugins without an Apollo, that's what I do here, that's what a lot of people do. It's an expensive overall proposition.

The Noise Ash plugin I mentioned is $50 most of the time.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
I use a line amp with about 17 db's of gain. Feed the converter, done. Compression or other processing is done at mix time. I don't like painting into corners.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't have the PA/Bettermaker Pultec but I'm sure it's quite good. I have the ones from Black Rooster and PSP (NobleQ) and they sound excellent. Plenty of capable options for good plugins these days, maybe too many!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #78
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
The Plugin Alliance plugins go on sale regularly. See the mega thread and have your mind blown, haha. But once you enter you can never leave.

I got the UAD really cheap also, on a sale.

You can use a UAD Satellite to run the plugins without an Apollo, that's what I do here, that's what a lot of people do. It's an expensive overall proposition.

The Noise Ash plugin I mentioned is $50 most of the time.
Looks like a boxed DSP, supposedly for real-time effects.. looks expensive.. is it worth it?

Haha, you must think I’ve been hiding in a cave for the last decade, and you’re right, sort of. Been out of it for many years and am currently picking up the pieces.
I’ll happily pay 50 bucks for a useful plugin, but most of the plugins I bought so far seems to stay in the drawer..
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #79
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Looks like a boxed DSP, supposedly for real-time effects.. looks expensive.. is it worth it?

Haha, you must think I’ve been hiding in a cave for the last decade, and you’re right, sort of. Been out of it for many years and am currently picking up the pieces.
I’ll happily pay 50 bucks for a useful plugin, but most of the plugins I bought so far seems to stay in the drawer..
I'm not sure I'd invest in UAD at this point. The prices are riding high right now. The sales seem to have dried up.

My advice would be to buy the cheapest satellite you can find, demo the hell out of every plugin you are interested, and only buy those. The DSP is not powerful and it will run out with some of the "heavy" plugins.

There is a real time mode, but mostly they have latency for normal mixing duties. The USB3 and Thunderbolt Satellites have a live track mode for guitar amps and such.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
I use a line amp with about 17 db's of gain. Feed the converter, done. Compression or other processing is done at mix time. I don't like painting into corners.
At one point you have to paint the corners as well, you know
My grandfather never liked painting into corners either, and when he was doing carpentry he had a habit of not driving the nails all the way in in case he would make some changes later. As a consequence the bunker bed my grandmother slept in collapsed at one point A digression, I know. Point is I’m kinda like you, but at one point you have to decide and I like the idea of recording with a good, mix-ready sound.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #81
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
I use a line amp with about 17 db's of gain. Feed the converter, done. Compression or other processing is done at mix time. I don't like painting into corners.
A 17 dB line amp with what? A passive bass? Active? DI?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #82
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
I'm not sure I'd invest in UAD at this point. The prices are riding high right now. The sales seem to have dried up.

My advice would be to buy the cheapest satellite you can find, demo the hell out of every plugin you are interested, and only buy those. The DSP is not powerful and it will run out with some of the "heavy" plugins.

There is a real time mode, but mostly they have latency for normal mixing duties. The USB3 and Thunderbolt Satellites have a live track mode for guitar amps and such.
Ahh, I see. Thanks for walking me through it.
Seems to me that it’s just as well putting the extra dough in cpu and ram, then.
But I will check out the Noise Ash!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
I don’t have a bass amp as I’m a multi instrumentalist only recording not gigging.
I was considering using an amp but those BX sims are so good I don’t see the need.
Also I prefer to invest in stuff that gets used in a variety of ways.

My chain is a Great River pre, has amazing low end, that goes into a Zod tube DI, into a PBC-6a fat and slow compressor or an old Valley People 440 fast vca comp.
This gives me some great tonal options for DI recording. But I’ll typically bypass the compressors when using the amp sim. I can also use just the Zod for old school tube vibe but the GR with the Zod is really the best of both and I can use those on a bunch of other sources.

The Noise Ash Heritage mentioned or that AA Coffee are the pultecs I use the most.
Makes sense!
I’m sure your Great river is great for tracking vocals and other things as well. By the looks of your profile picture my guess is it goes to eleven?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
I have both the Klark Teknik 76-KT and an upgraded KT-2a (Kenetek T4b opto + Harma Retro tubes) that I use with my Warm TB12's. The 76-KT is quite a clean sounding compressor and I personally prefer the KT-2a with bass though it is more expensive and harder to get hold of.
It is my experience, too, that 1176 comps or LA2A like comps make a greater difference then preamps.
Since I have both and a UA 610 with the LA2A like comp, I can't decide which one to prefer.
For certain playing styles the fast speed of the 1176 is a huge advantage. Both in a chain are bass heaven.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
It is my experience, too, that 1176 comps or LA2A like comps make a greater difference then preamps.
Since I have both and a UA 610 with the LA2A like comp, I can't decide which one to prefer.
For certain playing styles the fast speed of the 1176 is a huge advantage. Both in a chain are bass heaven.
Yes, whilst some preamps do make subtle differences, adding a compressor makes a noticeably bigger difference. I also have a Klark Teknik EQP-KT which can sound really nice on bass. The DSP mixer on my Motu 828es allows me to record both dry and processed tracks at the same time. I prefer tracking bass with a little compression with the KT-2a and sometimes with a subtle touch of EQ.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #86
Lives for gear
 
I have £1000+ mic pres - but the little GAP PRE 73 DLX (with output pad (important!!)) is my favourite bass DI. Smacking that little output transformer just levels everything nicely and adds the right amount of saturation.

Of course I invariably end up creating a parallel track with my little Joe Meek VC3 enhancer adding harmonics to really cut through on small speakers.

However I must mention a single $150 box that does everything well, I love my Electro Harmonix Battalion - a bit fiddly to dial in as small tweaks make huge changes - particularly the compressor - but you can get some great tones without any other processing. I use it live for small gigs (bass into PA) and as a DI when I can't be bothered to muck around patching the outboard stuff.

But if you're going to spend ~$1200 I'd seriously think about GAP PRE 73DLX > KT-76 > KT-2A - that's a killer combo. Of course you could also chuck the KT 3rd dimention BBD-320 in for the ultimate budget setup if you're into those 80s bass sounds.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #87
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
The Plugin Alliance plugins go on sale regularly. See the mega thread and have your mind blown, haha. But once you enter you can never leave.

I got the UAD really cheap also, on a sale.

You can use a UAD Satellite to run the plugins without an Apollo, that's what I do here, that's what a lot of people do. It's an expensive overall proposition.

The Noise Ash plugin I mentioned is $50 most of the time.
Noise Ash +1! Niice!

If you skip the Heritage bundle and just buy the EQ1A it's even cheaper, like 29.99$ or so!

Guavadude: Thanks for reminding me of the 'trick'!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #88
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend ➡️
I have £1000+ mic pres - but the little GAP PRE 73 DLX (with output pad (important!!)) is my favourite bass DI. Smacking that little output transformer just levels everything nicely and adds the right amount of saturation.

Of course I invariably end up creating a parallel track with my little Joe Meek VC3 enhancer adding harmonics to really cut through on small speakers.

However I must mention a single $150 box that does everything well, I love my Electro Harmonix Battalion - a bit fiddly to dial in as small tweaks make huge changes - particularly the compressor - but you can get some great tones without any other processing. I use it live for small gigs (bass into PA) and as a DI when I can't be bothered to muck around patching the outboard stuff.

But if you're going to spend ~$1200 I'd seriously think about GAP PRE 73DLX > KT-76 > KT-2A - that's a killer combo. Of course you could also chuck the KT 3rd dimention BBD-320 in for the ultimate budget setup if you're into those 80s bass sounds.
Yeah, I considered the 73DLX, but I struck on a cheap secondhand WA12mkii. I'm sure the GAP is superior, but min has a pad and an output stage as well.

You know, this search for the right sound kind of reminds me of fishing: You can easily see yourself spending more time diving into gear and techniques than you actually have the line in the water! Time to make some music!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Yeah, I considered the 73DLX, but I struck on a cheap secondhand WA12mkii. I'm sure the GAP is superior, but min has a pad and an output stage as well.

You know, this search for the right sound kind of reminds me of fishing: You can easily see yourself spending more time diving into gear and techniques than you actually have the line in the water! Time to make some music!
I own the WA Tonebeast - which is basically the same as the WA12, just with more options, and the GAP DLX. Both are great. And with both you can drive the transformer a bit and use the pad. No need to worry:-)
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
I own the WA Tonebeast - which is basically the same as the WA12, just with more options, and the GAP DLX. Both are great. And with both you can drive the transformer a bit and use the pad. No need to worry:-)
Considered the Tonebeast (what a groovy name!) as well, but didn't want the options if you know what I mean! Plug and play! Have been driving bass and an Arturia drumbrute through the WA12mkii all night long. Sounds good enough in my ears.
What's the best way to post clips here? Soundcloud or what? I already have a dropbox-account, could I just post a link?
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