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Bass chain
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #421
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFi audio ➡️
Dually noted. I got it for Jazz tones/gigs for sure and have managed a slap tone when needed. Not to derail thread, but I've been curious what industry standard is towards diming guitar/basses when tracking or not.
Not sure that there is any "industry standard". Most engineers are hoping for consistant levels so I would imagine somebody somewhere is maybe telling guitar and bass players to dime it and leave it there but the volume control on a guitar or bass is really how that instrument interacts with pedals and the amp so if a player actually uses their knobs to get their sound then that is really messing with them to tell them to crank it up and break the knob off.

Basses that have two pickups interact with each other so as lobsterinn and I think Brent mentioned turning one down just a hair gets a fuller sound because the other takes over and with most basses there is a bunch less cancellation.

When using both pickups on a two pickup bass I usually turn the volume down on the bridge pickup just a smidge (like 8.5 or 9 out of 10).

It's a free mod, just try it and listen. If you haven't checked this out you might just learn something new about your instrument.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #422
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Not sure that there is any "industry standard". Most engineers are hoping for consistant levels so I would imagine somebody somewhere is maybe telling guitar and bass players to dime it and leave it there but the volume control on a guitar or bass is really how that instrument interacts with pedals and the amp so if a player actually uses their knobs to get their sound then that is really messing with them to tell them to crank it up and break the knob off.

Basses that have two pickups interact with each other so as lobsterinn and I think Brent mentioned turning one down just a hair gets a fuller sound because the other takes over and with most basses there is a bunch less cancellation.

When using a two pickup bass I usually turn the volume down on the bridge pickup just a smidge (like 8.5 or 9 out of 10).

It's a free mod, just try it and listen. If you haven't checked this out you might just learn something new about your instrument.
@ JLast I independently arrived at the exact same place you did with my J bass!!

bridge pickup down "just a smidge" really fills out the sound!

With my P Bass though, it's both knobs on 10 all the time, for me.

Volume is controlled with playing dynamics (finger touch.)
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #423
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vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Must say, the thread title "Bass chain" is my vary favorite ! !

Vocal chain, guitar chain and others ..boring compared to bass chain.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #424
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➡️
Must say, the thread title "Bass chain" is my vary favorite ! !

Vocal chain, guitar chain and others ..boring compared to bass chain.
Well, don’t you know
that’s the sound of the men
working on a bass chain
Old 1 week ago
  #425
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Last Saturday was bass to ZOD > Coil 70 > Buzz DBC.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #426
iFi audio
 
iFi audio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Not sure that there is any "industry standard". Most engineers are hoping for consistant levels so I would imagine somebody somewhere is maybe telling guitar and bass players to dime it and leave it there but the volume control on a guitar or bass is really how that instrument interacts with pedals and the amp so if a player actually uses their knobs to get their sound then that is really messing with them to tell them to crank it up and break the knob off.

Basses that have two pickups interact with each other so as lobsterinn and I think Brent mentioned turning one down just a hair gets a fuller sound because the other takes over and with most basses there is a bunch less cancellation.

When using both pickups on a two pickup bass I usually turn the volume down on the bridge pickup just a smidge (like 8.5 or 9 out of 10).

It's a free mod, just try it and listen. If you haven't checked this out you might just learn something new about your instrument.
This is very informative, thank you! I can hear that differential when I play, especially with my Fender Strat through the pedalboard, but I usually dime anyways when tracking DI. I'll have to listen close to my bass as I don't run that through as much on the pedal side. That bridge trick will likely work as I have a JBass and am much more inclined to the round, warm Jazz tone.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #427
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dc_r's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
- three for the acoustic: pickup/di, mini mic, mic in front of full range stack - could be there was another mic...
- the rest for the electric: (tube?) di full range, line lows, line highs, stack low, stack highs, fender twin combo
Can you please elaborate on how you used the Twin Reverb for bass? How do you set the EQ on the amp and do you high pass it in the mix?
Old 6 days ago
  #428
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dc_r's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I’ve been struggling with the bass for many, many years and I am finally starting to get it how I want it to sound.

I am using a 2013 Fender US Jazz Deluxe and although it is possible to set it really low I find that I prefer high action on it, about 3mm at the 12th fret.

I also found that I don’t quite like the built in active eq, so I use MXR Dyna Comp Deluxe into MXR M81 and use the EQ there- a bit of a boost at 40Hz, a bit of a boost at 700Hz which brings it forward (this was the biggest problem I think), and a slight high boost too.

This is then going into a Phoenix DRS-Q4 Mk2, with a slight boost at 800Hz, and HPF at 70Hz sometimes engaged. This goes into Klark Pultec with 60Hz boosted to 5, and 3K boosted to 3, then Klark LA-2A compressing another 3dB or so.

I also use another 800Hz boost in the Waves RS-56, and a steep low pass filter set to about 2kH.

I did not record much lately but my next thing to try is to combine this with a split signal going into Twin Reverb into Captor-X, lined up with Waves’ phase align plugin- which made a real difference when I tried this in the past.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #429
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Well, don’t you know
that’s the sound of the men
working on a bass chain
Did Chessparov move to Norway without telling us?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #430
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r ➡️
I use MXR Dyna Comp Deluxe into MXR M81 and use the EQ there- a bit of a boost at 40Hz, a bit of a boost at 700Hz which brings it forward (this was the biggest problem I think), and a slight high boost too.
Around 700-800 is a pretty common eq boost to use on a bass to bring up some clarity/detail and keep it from getting lost as just a big boomy thing.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #431
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
Around 700-800 is a pretty common eq boost to use on a bass to bring up some clarity/detail and keep it from getting lost as just a big boomy thing.
I could not find it by ear and I think the bell curve of the Phoenix was too broad. I was surprised that the MXR pedal gave me what I wanted!
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #432
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r ➡️
I’ve been struggling with the bass for many, many years and I am finally starting to get it how I want it to sound.

I am using a 2013 Fender US Jazz Deluxe and although it is possible to set it really low I find that I prefer high action on it, about 3mm at the 12th fret.

I also found that I don’t quite like the built in active eq, so I use MXR Dyna Comp Deluxe into MXR M81 and use the EQ there- a bit of a boost at 40Hz, a bit of a boost at 700Hz which brings it forward (this was the biggest problem I think), and a slight high boost too.

This is then going into a Phoenix DRS-Q4 Mk2, with a slight boost at 800Hz, and HPF at 70Hz sometimes engaged. This goes into Klark Pultec with 60Hz boosted to 5, and 3K boosted to 3, then Klark LA-2A compressing another 3dB or so.

I also use another 800Hz boost in the Waves RS-56, and a steep low pass filter set to about 2kH.

I did not record much lately but my next thing to try is to combine this with a split signal going into Twin Reverb into Captor-X, lined up with Waves’ phase align plugin- which made a real difference when I tried this in the past.
If this works for you, it sounds interesting. It is against a lot of rules: using different EQs on one signal can lead to many problems with phase etc. You drive it to the max: 4 different EQs on one signal.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #433
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
If this works for you, it sounds interesting. It is against a lot of rules: using different EQs on one signal can lead to many problems with phase etc. You drive it to the max: 4 different EQs on one signal.
Yes, I tried the rules, and then I found a £100 pedal does more than a £2500 preamp???
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #434
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Did Chessparov move to Norway without telling us?
Nah, he lives in OC as far as I know..

Off topic: roaming the streets of NYC, what is your knowledge of Norway?
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #435
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r ➡️
I’ve been struggling with the bass for many, many years and I am finally starting to get it how I want it to sound.

I am using a 2013 Fender US Jazz Deluxe and although it is possible to set it really low I find that I prefer high action on it, about 3mm at the 12th fret.

I also found that I don’t quite like the built in active eq, so I use MXR Dyna Comp Deluxe into MXR M81 and use the EQ there- a bit of a boost at 40Hz, a bit of a boost at 700Hz which brings it forward (this was the biggest problem I think), and a slight high boost too.

This is then going into a Phoenix DRS-Q4 Mk2, with a slight boost at 800Hz, and HPF at 70Hz sometimes engaged. This goes into Klark Pultec with 60Hz boosted to 5, and 3K boosted to 3, then Klark LA-2A compressing another 3dB or so.

I also use another 800Hz boost in the Waves RS-56, and a steep low pass filter set to about 2kH.

I did not record much lately but my next thing to try is to combine this with a split signal going into Twin Reverb into Captor-X, lined up with Waves’ phase align plugin- which made a real difference when I tried this in the past.
Oh my God, what happened to us?

To be fair: This is Gearspace, and I started the thread, but to me that seems a lot of work making the bass sound right.

I hope you are still able to enjoy playing, and that you’re having some fun doing so!

To be honest, over the last couple of months I have been less preoccupied with bass-sound than making music in general, and I’ve settled upon the fact that my tone isn’t perfect, but it gets the job done.

My bass chain is currently a ‘68 Fender P (I’m really lucky, I know) through an Avalon U5 straight into an RME interface, and then plugins.

That being said, I’m really interested in the Klark 2a. They are hard to obtain these days, but I’ve always fancied the sound of a 2a over an 1176.

Greetings from Norway!

Last edited by muffegutt; 6 days ago at 02:40 AM.. Reason: Typo
Old 6 days ago
  #436
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I've been using my regular chain (DWA Wolfbox DI, CAPI VP312 modified) but I found some great new processors to mix with.

EL Arousor is fantastic on bass! Forgot about this one but it nailed this punk thing I'm mixing for a friend.

UAD API Vision channel or PA Lindell 50 (API) channel. Wow! Great bass sound. Works on any track at all but the bass sound is great in itself.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #437
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffegutt ➡️
Nah, he lives in OC as far as I know..

Off topic: roaming the streets of NYC, what is your knowledge of Norway?
Zip.

The only thing I know about Norway is that there is someone there who is fond of the same kinds of Audio Dad Jokes as Chessparov.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #438
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
My bass stuff usually sees both compression while tracking and compression in mixing. The chain is fairly simple usually. Bass set on P (bridge) pickup > DI/API312 > Allison Gain Brain. Then during mixing I eq it and put it through my Scamp S01's. I don't use the bridge pickup much on the bass as its too bassy. The P pickup alone at least has a bit of growl to it.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #439
js1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have some good options (including a 6176), but recently I went though a binge of tube amp repair/cleanup and rewarded myself with the purchase of a Captor.

After recording a distorted guitar track on an AC15 with the Captor, for kicks I plugged in my bass without backing down the gain. Stuck a bass cab impulse, and was greeted with the best no-mic rock bass tone I've ever got.
Old 6 days ago
  #440
Gear Head
 
I always prefer the sound of a miked cab. Even if I take DI in parallel I never use it. Only compress 3 db max, usually with opto. Try to get dynamics right with my fingers.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #441
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP ➡️
If this works for you, it sounds interesting. It is against a lot of rules: using different EQs on one signal can lead to many problems with phase etc. You drive it to the max: 4 different EQs on one signal.
Wait, there are rules?

Also, this is the first time I am hearing that lot's of eqs can lead to phase problems, perhaps you could expand a bit? What I would be worried more is perhaps noise, maybe even impedance differences, but phase?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #442
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by random musican ➡️
Wait, there are rules?

Also, this is the first time I am hearing that lot's of eqs can lead to phase problems, perhaps you could expand a bit? What I would be worried more is perhaps noise, maybe even impedance differences, but phase?
Phase is the "Devil" that EQ "pays" any time you make a move.

EQ's work on a principle of phase cancellation / reinforcement to create the curves we all know and love. Tiny differences in time, at specific frequencies.

Doesn't matter if it's analog or digital. All EQs work the same way in this regard. Other than Linear Phase EQ's which trade phase shifts for pre ringing artifacts and latency.

If you use an EQ such as for example SSL X-EQ 2 there's a "mode" in the plugin that lets you have a peek at what you're doing to your phase.

When you stack EQ's like that, four or more, pushing and pulling in the same places, your phase plot is going to be all over the place.

It's not ideal. I think at most, in my own little world, I try not to have more than 2 EQ's on any channel, maybe a color EQ, console style or whatever, and then maybe a digital super EQ for fine tweaks. Or maybe some dynamic EQ, some static EQ, etc. Of course you can break rules, but you'll find in practice, with experience, it's better to solve problems with fewer EQ moves when possible.

Oh and here's some resource for you: https://cravedsp.com/blog
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #443
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
When you stack EQ's like that, four or more, pushing and pulling in the same places, your phase plot is going to be all over the place.
I still hold in my head the concept of EQ that I had when I first started using EQ. That the goal was to have the target frequency response curve. Which, unless you need some insane boost or cut, you can almost always get with one EQ. Two might be faster workflow sometimes. You might need to "hit" a compressor a certain way and then make up for it.

But putting back what the other EQ took out, I mean WTF?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #444
Gear Addict
 
Let's not conflate the number of eqs with the number of eq moves. If you want to make 3 moves, you can do them all in one eq but it is fine to have 3 eqs with one move each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
When you stack EQ's like that, four or more, pushing and pulling in the same places, your phase plot is going to be all over the place.
No, it won't be. Assuming we are talking about regular eqs, the only thing that matters is how steep your final combined eq curve is. Also, using multiple eqs is the same as using multiple moves in a single eq unless you are using a parallel one like TDR Nova.

Just to demonstrate, I've attached a peak-like shape shape made out of 11 steeper peaks (left channel), a regular peak (right channel), as well as single isolated steep peak for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Of course you can break rules, but you'll find in practice, with experience, it's better to solve problems with fewer EQ moves when possible.
Yes, fever eq moves (and that's not fever eqs!) is indeed usually better, but that's for different reasons.
Attached Thumbnails
Bass chain-11peaks.jpg  
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #445
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by random musican ➡️
Let's not conflate the number of eqs with the number of eq moves. If you want to make 3 moves, you can do them all in one eq but it is fine to have 3 eqs with one move each.



No, it won't be. Assuming we are talking about regular eqs, the only thing that matters is how steep your final combined eq curve is. Also, using multiple eqs is the same as using multiple moves in a single eq unless you are using a parallel one like TDR Nova.

Just to demonstrate, I've attached a peak-like shape shape made out of 11 steeper peaks (left channel), a regular peak (right channel), as well as single isolated steep peak for comparison.


Yes, fever eq moves (and that's not fever eqs!) is indeed usually better, but that's for different reasons.
Oh wow!! Good to know, thanks!
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