The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
The biggest problem with "One Man Band" production - Timing is Everything
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A lock down rhythm section groove is the first order of business for any shot at recording significant tracks: it is impossible to "pull against" loose meter! A forensic analysis of any rhythm section will quickly reflect the melodic importance of piano, bass and guitar however percussion is the rock that sets time. Many years ago when Alesis first released the SR16 drum machine I bought one to shape up my favorite Bluegrass guitar licks. I had figured out the real problem of dealing with cluttered tracks that did not meld into a solid groove was imperfections in fitting in fills , runs and swells that the players thought were very cool. 25 years ago when I first opened up my project studio the considerably talented local performers needed to play their licks in time with my drum machine before they ever got in front of one of my mics.
(J.D.Crowe has an internal click track that most of the new members of his band did not have, but they acquired the ability to play in time or they found work some where else.)
I moved on to EZ drummer a while later and would use it with bands that had timing problems: the sole purpose was to establish and retain rock solid meter. The EZdrummer tracks were never part of any of my Bluegrass two mixes however recently I am printing a few in my solo Americana rhythm section.

For me the importance of live kits is way over rated: the set up time and related expense is hardly ever worth any perceived benefit. As a producer the ability to dial in the exact kit groove I need with a single finger is a gift from above.
Hugh
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
maybe worth noting that say the pat metheny group used a dynamic click track back in the early 90's: tight but not static...

('grace jones' "slave to the rhythm" is a pretty sleek track but not a concept which appeals much to me)
Old 1st January 2021
  #63
This is why I LOVE autopunch (especially when recording with a metronome). Just re-play through the wonky part(s) and autopunch in/out at a place where it doesn't break the coherence. Then listen and re-do until you get it right. It should sound alright as long as you're playing before the punch-in. like, if you hit a cymbal in the original take but then punch in after that and lose the tail end because you didn't hit it before the punch-in, that is noticeable. but if the cymbal tail is there because you played through into the punch-in, it isn't usually noticeable. I sometimes punch in/out a little bit ahead and past the wonky part then 'shrink' the punch-in to a part where it just fixes the issue and doesn't mess with much else.
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
guavadude's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
maybe worth noting that say the pat metheny group used a dynamic click track back in the early 90's: tight but not static...

('grace jones' "slave to the rhythm" is a pretty sleek track but not a concept which appeals much to me)
Curious where you read that or more details. Huge PM fan.
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
plainofjars's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think a lot of older classic stuff that people have in mind used looped tape more often than they realize—Fleetwood Mac for instance. When I learned Dreams was a loop, it really cleared up a lot of confusion/frustration I had writing and programming drum parts.
Old 1st January 2021
  #66
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
A few things seem to be making me more productive on my home rig lately.

One is schedule, I’m here most of the time and finally cobbled together a setup, initially from surplus gear I already owned.

But then I found a drum programming tool/sample set that really works for me and also dropped a chunk of change getting the neck on my bass sorted out.

So now I’m writing tunes around bass lines and finding it inspiring and productive (relative to the last several years trying to record my own drumming at the studio and build up a track that way).

And what I’m loving most of all is that I have completely re-written major parts of these songs and punched them in. I’m really embracing non-linear editing as a writing tool.

Now, I may get someone to eventually overdub drums on these tracks. But the gridded beats against my human bass playing do feel good to me and that’s a big part of what’s making it fun to build up my tracks.
Old 1st January 2021
  #67
Lives for gear
 
razorboy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"Apparently you f*** better than you drum."

Mike Love to his cousin Dennis Wilson, on finding that Wilson had made Love's young daughter pregnant.
Old 1st January 2021
  #68
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
LOL, oh those Boys.
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorboy ➡️
"Apparently you f*** better than you drum."

Mike Love to his cousin Dennis Wilson, on finding that Wilson had made Love's young daughter pregnant.
He just so happens to be trending right now on twitter for being a jerk
Old 1st January 2021 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude ➡️
Curious where you read that or more details. Huge PM fan.
i did not read about this but talked about production and mixing techniques before doing monitors for pmg on a couple of occasions.

this specific topic came up on another occasion though: paul wertico got sent a couple of prototype cymbals to evaluate so i was expecting his call but it was pat who rang me up during recording (or mixing?) in a studio in ny, possibly the 'quartet' album - could have been two years earlier though (and hence during 'we live here')...

they performed many compositions live before recording them; from listening to desk mixes, they checked which section was played at what tempo and then programmed the clicktrack for recording - afaik they didn't ever use a clicktrack for performing live though.
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Speaking of mushrooms and Art Ensemble of Chicago. I took mushrooms once and saw them at Reed College in the early 80's. I sat there inside with sunglasses on, high as a kite, and it sounded like random noise for almost the whole show and then toward the end it slowly worked into a melody that just kept building and building until it was just this tight beautiful melody that finally ended. I never heard the band before or since. My 16ry old mind was never the same.
Old 2nd January 2021
  #73
Lives for gear
 
JayTee4303's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
I've been, pretty often, struggling with laying down drums, bass, keyboard instruments, guitar, voice, percussion, all by my lonesome self.

When I hear a lot of "amateur" productions, by people that are very skilled at one instrument, but dabble in others (typically, drums), the timing is what kills the track. There might be measures of playing that are a full quarter note beat off in timing, which becomes a train wreck. When you have 4 downbeats landing in different scattered places it's torture on the ears, not really going to win any new fans.

Tempo drifts also, and you multiply this by 6 tracks or whatever, it gets ugly.

It's difficult to feel "groove" and "pocket" when you're tracking alone in headphones to your own self.

One obvious solution is to woodshed on your "new" instruments, try to get to that Prince level of tightness. But realistically there are some people out there who may not have the "gift" of rhythmic tightness. It seems to be lacking even in very experienced musicians that I know. I mean people who have been trained at a very high level and so on.

The other more immediate solution is to learn DAW timing fix techniques. Typically, record to a click track. Then for example in Cubase, you can slice and intelligently quantize your drum tracks to match the tempo track. When I did this "correctly" for the first time it kind of blew my mind. It's also a slightly involved thing to learn how to execute in Cubase. There are some YouTube videos that explain how. You could save a track from the garbage can, even if it's not quite as groovy as a pro-played track.

I wanted to open a general discussion on this topic, and ask people what are their techniques to nail timing when quickly building a track. While maintaining something of a live feel, not a gridded robotic type of sound. I don't want mechanical software drum machine timing and autotune on everything sound. Not with live rock/funk/jazz/pop instruments.

To me, this "gridded, but live" or sort of "sampled sounding acoustic" sound is a hallmark of a lot of really beautiful modern productions. Things like newer Thom Yorke stuff, the new Paul Mccartney III album, etc. You can freely blend live and synthetic sound sources while maintaing vibe and groove in the overall timing.

This is the sound I am chasing, so I was hoping some people here might have some insight or experience with the topic/style. Specifically working methods and techniques. I think it could help a lot of people.
You might have started a train wreck of a thread, here.

There's a whole book... or library shelf... in musical timing... the performer's rhythm... making it to the listener's brain... in a way that moves their feet, hips, and/or soul...possibly all three.

We'll call that Song Tempo.

Thete's another whole book or library on multiple musicians trying to play into that ideal Song Tempo...

...and another whole book or library on NOT sticking to the Ideal Song Tempo... i.e. groove... swing... syncopation...

Two or three more libraries on recording system timing... masters, slaves, wordclock, chase-lock, CPU, OS, PCI buss overhead, latency, latency compensation, background processing, foldback point for artist cans, and how that changes between first tracks laid vs overdubbing, and the timing issues induced there.

70 years of recording history related to processing techniques in post. What can and can't be "fixed later"... and HOW you fixed THIS... TODAY...

That's a start. Now... who's asking?

The drummer? The bassist who has to follow and lead him?

The engineer, who has to capture it? Then align it?

The producer, who has to define "good enough".. or not, and if not... is this a musician problem or a recording rig problem?

I have a thread up over in Synths. FL Studio, which CAN run 5 arps but can NOT be a SMPTE slave... speeds up and slows down.

Unless my space time continuum is warped and my BRAIN is imagining it.

92 views.

Zero answers.

I do not object to this thread, I welcome it.

But if you're after specific improvement, you might narrow down the scope. If you just enjoy conversation, you have laid a competent foundation.

PLENTY here to talk about.

:-)
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Exactly, 0 answers.
The only answer in my book is, play along with a software drum groove, on your chosen instrument.

If you cannot groove from beginning to end, keep practicing until you can.
Or else, all your going to accomplish with editing this and that will be to polish the proverbial... well, you know.

I took the time to listen to the OP's band camp tracks to see what was what. There's an awful lot of groove free stuff there.
That's why I suggested that the only thing that will help is practicing a part with a 'metronome' until it grooves. Otherwise nothing will change!

Last edited by shobud; 2nd January 2021 at 10:52 PM.. Reason: more info
Old 2nd January 2021
  #75
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I thought I laid out what I was asking about already. I am doing this all myself. Wearing every hat. Sometimes working with other musicians.

Yes, it's a broad topic, and yes, reading the replies have given me "answers" if you want to call it that, which I don't really.

If you don't want to address the topic that's fine, but I'm more interested in general, as well as specific, approaches that other "producers" have for timing, since it seems to be a little different for everyone. Rather than non-responses. Thanks to the people that have replied in this way.

The question could ask, what is your approach from the start of a recording. What techniques do you use to find the best timing for multiple tracks. Do you run strictly grid based sessions, not at all, Etc. Just in case that wasn't understood by now.
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Addict
 
Quasar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peller ➡️
These days I find it much more successful to not start with the drums. I'll lay down a rough guitar or keyboard part to a click -- whatever the main instrument that gives the song its feel -- and then use that as a reference for drumming and so on.
I start with a non-rhythmic, melodic part too (piano, VI guitar etc.) I dislike click tracks, share the Rick Beato school of thought on computers and click tracks ruining music, so what I'm working on in terms of workflow is:

Play to the natural feel or groove without drums or metronomes, then in Reaper find the resulting tempo, the down beats and recreate the grid markers to conform to what has actually been played. Now the BPM will vary from measure to measure, which means you could, if you wanted to, add a perfectly quantized, prefab MIDI drum loop and the playback will still vary with your original, non-click track feel.

So you now have a grid to work off of, with the grid markers used for reference points for having "tight timing", but the tightness of the grid isn't based on a set BPM, but on you're own internal, variable BPM. IOW, the click track now follows you rather than you following the click track, if that makes any sense.
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
The question could ask, what is your approach from the start of a recording. What techniques do you use to find the best timing for multiple tracks. Do you run strictly grid based sessions, not at all, Etc. Just in case that wasn't understood by now.
Okay... in that sense, I usually...

1. Open up a PT track and play a click with a rompler cross-stick.
2. Find a chunk of it that feels right.
3. Edit out exactly one beat and paste 5 minutes of it or so.
4. Do a guitar/vocal "roadmap" to the click.
5. Do a tidier guitar or other chordal thing.
6. Do a vocal that's good enough to play to.
7. Get rid of the roadmap track and all of the click except the countoff and long pauses.
8. Proceed from there.

I try to do 1-7 pretty quickly, because at least half the time the tempo turns out to be wrong and I have to start over.
Old 2nd January 2021
  #78
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
When I hear a lot of "amateur" productions, by people that are very skilled at one instrument, but dabble in others (typically, drums), the timing is what kills the track. There might be measures of playing that are a full quarter note beat off in timing, which becomes a train wreck. When you have 4 downbeats landing in different scattered places it's torture on the ears, not really going to win any new fans.
Being an infrequent writer, I don't do a lot of 'one-man band' productions, but I often will add more than one instrument to a client's project. I tend to find that for me, anyway timing "crosses over". I am a drummer, and I find that if I have been doing a lot of drum practicing, and I pick up a guitar for the first time in months, my guitar playing has "improved". Obviously, I may not know any new chords or scales, but what I do know is hitting tighter. Because timing is timing.

If I am playing "over my head" on something, I may be literally unable to play the figure, but if I can play the figure, I am not going to miss the downbeats. The physicality of drums and the unusual techniques of using sticks may make complex figures harder to play, but that is problem of overreach. Play within your chops and why should your drum timing be worse than your guitar timing? For example, I know many Mainly-Guitarists who will take a stab at the drums, then come back and do the kick drum on a separate pass. Unless you 'call yourself' a drummer, where's the shame in that? Isn't that better than flailing about if you are in over your heard with the independence? You are already "cheating" by overdubbing, "cheating" by comping, "cheating" by editing and quantizing.

Quote:
But realistically there are some people out there who may not have the "gift" of rhythmic tightness.
but if that is the case, they are probably lacking the rhythmic tightness on their "main" instrument as well! Live or overdubbing, you have to have to hit together. The only difference is that your one-man-band can't fire "you" if you fail at this. This lack of ultimate coercion can explain the problem but it does not excuse it. Everybody knows what they have to do.

Quote:
It seems to be lacking even in very experienced musicians that I know. I mean people who have been trained at a very high level and so on
What value is training without accomplishment? Do you want a pilot who has a PhD in flying, or one who can land the plane?

For a short while I gave a few kids beginning guitar lessons. I would stress on them: Forget that chord... you already missed it! You have another chord coming up, don't be late with that one too! Unfortunately, so many young people learn an instrument alone. Where they can slow down on the difficult parts and speed up on the easy ones. The only time they play with anyone else is for the duration of their lesson with the teacher. In simpler times, they may have joined a village drum circle or a church choir and been "pulled forward" by the movement of the group of other humans.

Quote:
I wanted to... ask people what are their techniques to nail timing when quickly building a track.
I remember my nephew had a piano video game. There where ducks moving across the screen (on a staff, of course) and you could shoot the duck if you pushed the correct key. But ONLY if you pressed the key at the exact moment the duck crossed the cursor. Too early or too late and you missed. That I thought was an educational game. Hit the note on the beat or don't hit it at all. Which is an option people seem to have forgotten. Back in the tape days, the best studio players knew that it was far easier to drop in a missing note than fix an early or late note.

Quote:
It's difficult to feel "groove" and "pocket" when you're tracking alone in headphones to your own self.
There are more reasons for this than mere timing. For thousands of years, all ensemble music required the cooperation of several different human beings. Only starting in the second half of the 20th Century was it even possible for a single human being to play along with "himself". Possibility does not equal advisability. Were it not for the pandemic, the necessity for it could also be called into question.

What is missing is the contribution of other minds, other ideas, other feelings and interpretations, not simply a lack of technical skill on the "other instruments". One fellow Gearslut taught me the word Egregore:

Quote:
Egregore (also spelled egregor; from French égrégore, from Ancient Greek egrḗgoros 'wakeful') is an occult concept representing a distinct non-physical entity that arises from a collective group of people.
Attached Thumbnails
The biggest problem with "One Man Band" production - Timing is Everything-circle_of_light_humanity_healing-300x224.jpg  
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
The question could ask, what is your approach from the start of a recording. What techniques do you use to find the best timing for multiple tracks. Do you run strictly grid based sessions, not at all, Etc. Just in case that wasn't understood by now.
Really depends on the material. More often than not, my approach is to first create a time signature/tempo change map in the DAW (my stuff tends to involve a lot of time signature and/or tempo changes), then record a scratch guitar track, then record drums and build from there. However, the song in the video I posted earlier goes so many places with the tempo that I decided to start from scratch with the drums and no click. No matter the approach, the integrity of the final project really hinges on the timing and feel of the drums, so it's crucial to either get that right in the performance or do whatever editing you have to in order to get it there. If that's there, in my experience, the remaining instruments tend to fall into place (or maybe that's just because I'm better at guitar and bass than I am at drums).
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
Okay... in that sense, I usually...

1. Open up a PT track and play a click with a rompler cross-stick.
2. Find a chunk of it that feels right.
3. Edit out exactly one beat and paste 5 minutes of it or so.
4. Do a guitar/vocal "roadmap" to the click.
5. Do a tidier guitar or other chordal thing.
6. Do a vocal that's good enough to play to.
7. Get rid of the roadmap track and all of the click except the countoff and long pauses.
8. Proceed from there.

I try to do 1-7 pretty quickly, because at least half the time the tempo turns out to be wrong and I have to start over.
Did you see the Shimmer, Shake, Strike vid I posted? Seriously, I used to do the kind process you’re describing (but with tracked/acoustic percussion). SSS is an absolute godsend for getting good grooves/clicks easily that are synced with whatever your session tempo is so you can adjust the groove all you want. I can’t recommend it highly enough for one-man-banding it.
Old 3rd January 2021
  #81
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Wow, brilliant responses, a lot to digest. Thanks Brent, Joeq, and Quasar. EDIT: and Ragan and Whoopysnorp also.

Someone that I tracked, a singer songwriter, later went on to record at a "pro" studio, and he told me exactly what Brent said, you do a guide guitar/voice, then you can go back and replace the guitar, then the voice, one by one with exact focus on each performance. This was, how many can there be, someone that had a hard time keeping a beat without some obvious reference to listen to. But the strategy seemed to work for him and this engineer. One of the jokes from the session was the engineer wanted to add bass, and "Brad" objected, but the engineer's line was, "You're gonna want that bass." Which kind of cracks me up.

The idea of an organic, performed reference rhythm track is brilliant, I'll work on that next time I build a big song. Whether it ends up being shaker, percussion loops, or a guitar and voice.

I'm gonna watch that Rick Beato video too and see if I agree with him or not. I am a fan of both wildly free tempo, and highly rigid music that steel feels good.

I also like the idea of just playing the hell out of some drums on a regular basis, but I might have to set up some V-Drums or something to really woodshed. Or just more drum circles with the other people that are around here.

Since I can think of so many associates with various issues related to poor time, it must be a more rare accomplishment than I even realized. At least at the, uh, "local band" level we'll call it. I do miss the Egregore when I'm programming drums, usually try to make them punishing to make up for it, some energy. Volume seems to help with vibe when tracking.
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #82
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
Did you see the Shimmer, Shake, Strike vid I posted?
Yes, and I know a couple people who use it all the time. The sampling tech they used to do it is impressive.
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I’ve been doing the one-man-band thing (when recording) on a lot of projects for a long time now and just this year started actually playing real drums, opposed to doing MIDI. Both open air recording and no quantizing feels better to me most of the time. Not glaring mistakes, but the slight “off” timing of human touch feels better. Depends on the project/song. Sometimes I’ll do more takes looking for tightness and nudge more stuff around that feels off, other times, pauses and some rushing feels more “right” and I’ll abandon the grid all together. Though I won’t typically quantize, I’ll definitely edit for feel. I’ll lay the foundation with drums in one long, open ended “arrangement” giving you more than enough “takes” to work with. Then rather than comping in the typical fashion where you sift through multiple takes, I’ll par down the one long take, bringing it together by lining up the hits to each other (rather than the grid). This might take longer to edit, but it preserves the feel. It also eliminates the ability to copy/paste the rest of the arrangement for the most part.
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesewhiteman ➡️
I’ve been doing the one-man-band thing (when recording) on a lot of projects for a long time now and just this year started actually playing real drums, opposed to doing MIDI. Both open air recording and no quantizing feels better to me most of the time. Not glaring mistakes, but the slight “off” timing of human touch feels better. Depends on the project/song. Sometimes I’ll do more takes looking for tightness and nudge more stuff around that feels off, other times, pauses and some rushing feels more “right” and I’ll abandon the grid all together. Though I won’t typically quantize, I’ll definitely edit for feel. I’ll lay the foundation with drums in one long, open ended “arrangement” giving you more than enough “takes” to work with. Then rather than comping in the typical fashion where you sift through multiple takes, I’ll par down the one long take, bringing it together by lining up the hits to each other (rather than the grid). This might take longer to edit, but it preserves the feel. It also eliminates the ability to copy/paste the rest of the arrangement for the most part.
That's interesting so you do one extended take and then build a drum track from pieces of it, is that right?

Is your "song" already written at this point or are you just "writing the drums" and then write more on the top?
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
That's interesting so you do one extended take and then build a drum track from pieces of it, is that right?

Is your "song" already written at this point or are you just "writing the drums" and then write more on the top?
This is what I do typically too. e-drums, just using the Yamaha DTX "LA Session" basic kit, recording audio and MIDI; I'll throw Slate Drums 5 on there after and play around with tones and kits, getting a blend I like. Super easy triggering samples too. I usually chuck the audio, but sometimes I'll run it through sansamp for a crunchy thing tucked under the main mix.

I can't stand any latency so this way I'm doing every thing zero latency in the analog world, feeding a click from the DAW to my mixer.

I also record real hats, because I just never got on with the e-drum hi-hats. This to me made the biggest difference to how authenticate the drums sound. All those hi-hat articulations are there now.

Cool thing about that is the MIDI is so much easier to edit. If the velocity is too hot on a few parts, or not hot enough, like into a chorus or something, I can easily select all notes and hit CTRL-Up in Reaper and bump up the velocity on that part. Helps with machine gunning too: you can tweak velocity so rolls sound more real.

But yeah, I just jam off of an arpeggiator, put in rests, fills, variations, then copy/paste those around until I have a song structure to build off of. While I'm drumming, I'm imagining all the parts coming in, heavy guitars, Rhodes solo, whatever, and just playing "make-believe" with a tight band in my mind, which comes across in the drums, and is there to bring to life later, all the energy and feel intact.
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
That's interesting so you do one extended take and then build a drum track from pieces of it, is that right?

Is your "song" already written at this point or are you just "writing the drums" and then write more on the top?
Pretty much.

Both, and everything between, though rarely if ever fully written. The current project I’m working on for a rapper, most often we’ll have a part written like a chorus and a melodic groove. We start recording with that and write the rest of the song as we go. That is very similar to my process on my solo “rock” stuff, but that’s usually more, or totally, improved with a drummer(who’s not me).
Old 3rd January 2021
  #87
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I always think of prince, (not prince andrew or naseem) the artist prince, wouldn't it be nice to have his gifts for a day, imagine not needing anyone else and laying down some drums then bass, uke and egg shaker and it's all perfectly in time.
Old 3rd January 2021
  #88
Lives for gear
I have been doing the one man thing for a really long time, and empathise and understand what a lot of the posts are getting at.

It’s really very hard to do.

The thing to remember is...one track has to be the boss, timing wise. You really have to have it to hang all the other tracks off.

In the past that sort of meant static tempo. You would sort out what tempo you want, and then play to a click, drum groove etc.

It provided a certain level of realism, and with good arrangement skills could provide an excellent result, depending on genre. Then came beatmapping which was very tedious.

Smart Tempo in Logic changed everything for me.

I now record my vocal and acoustic guitar at the same time, two mics in fig 8.

I then create a tempo map using smart tempo off the acoustic guitar track.

Then I play drums in using a e kit and superior drums (I used a real kit for many years ) bass and other instruments in.

The key for me is the original acoustic and vocal are the timing backbone and heart of the performance and stay from beginning to end.

This makes me focus on the art and soul of the original performance and supplement it (I try to think like a session player when playing the other parts) with the overdubs.

This is incredibly enjoyable and productive for me.

My last album was done this way

Have a free listen to the title track at http://www.peterknightmusician.com

Happy to answer any questions on the workflow.

Cheers Wiz
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz ➡️
I have been doing the one man thing for a really long time, and empathise and understand what a lot of the posts are getting at.
It’s really very hard to do.
I don't think it is hard. It's harder to find a right musicians to play with ... but you can eventualy play in the band where your mind is relaxed and you enjoy the freedom
Old 3rd January 2021 | Show parent
  #90
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz ➡️
I have been doing the one man thing for a really long time, and empathise and understand what a lot of the posts are getting at.

It’s really very hard to do.
-With drums, if you work inside your box of competency, you can probably get things done fairly well. The trick, I guess, is knowing your limits.
-For me, I've been playing guitar and keys for more years than I care to admit, so those don't present an issue.
-Bass is interesting; a personality thing. If a competent guitarist can channel the bassist mentality well enough to hold the pocket and create groove, it can happen. But most guitarists play bass like they play guitar.
-It's nice to be able to add an instrument that requires human air. I recently got a flute, and I'm working my ass off, and paying very close attention to my limits on any given day. That just puts in a new humanistic dimension, and it's almost always missing from solo productions.
-Singing? The core of a song's appeal. It makes people fall in love... or not. The human connection between artist and listener. People open their mouths and they deliver, or they don't. I don't, so I have fun doing this stuff, but I harbor no delusions that my prowess with instruments could ever overcome my vocal performance deficiencies.

But I think that the most difficult aspect to overcome is the fact that it's one person doing everything. It's one stylistic POV; one emotional delivery on every instrument. Emotional homogenization. There's a magic that occurs when a variety of minds communicate that is usually missing from one-person productions. Someone like James Taylor can create a hit with just his voice and an acoustic guitar, but that's his vocal delivery doing the heavy lifting. If you sing like him, emotional homogenization in an instrumental arrangement becomes moot, because nobody is paying attention to that aspect.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4610 views: 607260
Avatar for cabooter
cabooter 15th March 2021
replies: 97 views: 35464
Avatar for mowmow
mowmow 15th September 2010
replies: 360 views: 69072
Avatar for toowrongfoo
toowrongfoo 30th November 2017
replies: 1124 views: 139229
Avatar for jessdavy
jessdavy 7th February 2021
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump