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Telefunken CU29, WARM WA47, and Vanguard V13 samples on male vocal.
Old 18th April 2019
  #91
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Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Firstly I really enjoyed your voice and I think all the mics bring out different qualities. I agree though I think the Copperhead is the winner. I thought that would be brighter like the Vanguard so it surprised me. I have one (CU29) I let my son use for his demos and I got it half price. I think it's a great mic. I have a theory that we're used to hearing young voices on bright mics (sony, manley etc. copperhead) but you've just ruined that theory. Out of the cheap Tfunks I thing the 251 is the best though, that is a great mic. Thanks for sharing and proving once again it's talent that really matters!
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han ➡️
I believe Vanguard replied to me on another thread saying the V13 and V4 have a similar capsule, but not identical.
I read somewhere that’s they use the same capsule?
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #93
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dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins ➡️
Thanks Chris and dickiefunk for the bday wishes! @ dickiefunk ...
Regarding the mics, the V13 definitely comes with the best package. Although, when the Telefunken mic update comes out, it will probably be an even better package.
I can verify that the CU29 mount has problems staying in place, and this is a chronic problem, because I've had three of these mics. I've contacted Telefunken about this. They've offered to exchange it for a Rycote mount, which is great. But first I have to ship the original shock mount to them, and I just haven't had a window where I can be without it. I use this thing almost every day. They said they can't ship me the new mount first because they've had scenerios where people haven't shipped the other one back.
As for build quality between the three, I'd give the Telefunken top nod. Everything about it feels sturdy. It weighs quite a bit more than the Vanguard, which I believe is due to the body being made of a heavier material (it is... I've opened both of them up) and a heavier transformer. Inside, it's probably the cleanest layout I've seen in a mic.
The materials on the Vanguard are much lighter than the other two, but the quality control is good. It's a good looking mic. And the shockmount is easily the most robust of the three. It has a rather small transformer, which I actually got to saturate pretty easily while singing loudly at closer proximity. The 10db pad took care of this (if you want a cleaner sound). The mic stayed clean without the pad when I was 12" away... Which is the proximity I almost always use, anyway. As I understand it from talking to Derek at Vanguard, the smaller transformer and easy saturation was part of the intended design of the mic, and that's why the pad is there.
The Warm has no issues with sound. But, I've had four of their mics now (two 87s, two 47s) and each one has had some kind of cosmetic flaw. This is not as big a deal to me as it once was. To produce a mic like this at this price point, with the materials they use... We'll, it seems like QC on the cosmetics is where they cut costs.
They're all three amazing mics.
Yes the new versions of the Telefunken mics look great! I wonder how the new versions will compare to the current version after the headbasket and circuit upgrades? I also like the fact that they will now come with upgraded shockmount and and hard case. The CU39 looks like a great mic but double the price of the Vanguard V13!
I’ve noticed quite a few studios doing shootouts with the V13 against much higher priced classics and they all favour the V13?
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Yes, I am impressed with the TF 51 (I think this was the model Paul meant) along with the Copperhead. It'd be a tough call on my voice, to pick between them. T-Funk was smart to update their RFT series.
Chris
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #95
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Yes, I am impressed with the TF 51 (I think this was the model Paul meant) along with the Copperhead. It'd be a tough call on my voice, to pick between them. T-Funk was smart to update their RFT series.
Chris

Yes I meant their cheap AR51. I bought 2. They sound so good.
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
I read somewhere that’s they use the same capsule?
From the thread “Vanguard V4 just released”
You’re post is just below Vanguard’s response to my question asking if the capsule was the same

I’ve gotta learn how to quote from other threads. Here’s a screen shot
Attached Thumbnails
Telefunken CU29, WARM WA47, and Vanguard V13 samples on male vocal.-625aa776-9597-41ae-8657-eebd0f340fcd.jpg  
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #97
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
Firstly I really enjoyed your voice and I think all the mics bring out different qualities. I agree though I think the Copperhead is the winner. I thought that would be brighter like the Vanguard so it surprised me. I have one (CU29) I let my son use for his demos and I got it half price. I think it's a great mic. I have a theory that we're used to hearing young voices on bright mics (sony, manley etc. copperhead) but you've just ruined that theory. Out of the cheap Tfunks I thing the 251 is the best though, that is a great mic. Thanks for sharing and proving once again it's talent that really matters!
Thanks, Paul!
I've never used the AR51. That, or the new TF51 will have to be on my shortlist. It's my understanding that the Copperhead (which is supposed to have the most tamed top end of the three t-funk mics) uses the same capsule as the AK47, so I'd expect that the 51 is even brighter sounding?
Thanks again for your kind words!
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #98
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
Yes the new versions of the Telefunken mics look great! I wonder how the new versions will compare to the current version after the headbasket and circuit upgrades? I also like the fact that they will now come with upgraded shockmount and and hard case. The CU39 looks like a great mic but double the price of the Vanguard V13!
I’ve noticed quite a few studios doing shootouts with the V13 against much higher priced classics and they all favour the V13?
I spoke with someone at Telefunken, and was told the circuit and capsule will remain identical. The only things that are changing are the headbasket (which will change from 3 layer mesh to 2 layers) and the tube. I asked him how much this new headbasket design will change the sound, and he said, "not much."
Also, I confirmed that owners of R-F-T series will be able to have their headbasket and tube changed for a fee, if they like.
The new package looks like the biggest upgrade, honestly.
Old 18th April 2019
  #99
Telefunken Elektroakustik
 
Telefunken Lab's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Greetings all,

Not to derail this thread, but if you'd like to know more about our recently released Alchemy Series and it's upgrades from RFT, I posted a lengthy description by model in this thread: New Telefunken “TF” series mics?

I would say the headgrille change is noteworthy, and most obvious on the TF51. It accentuates the openness and clarity in a certain way that the earlier version did not have. It's a bit tricky to explain and some people probably won't notice, but I am very proud of what our R&D was able to accomplish with this redesign.

Anyways, carry on.

Regards,
James
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #100
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telefunken Lab ➡️
Greetings all,

Not to derail this thread, but if you'd like to know more about our recently released Alchemy Series and it's upgrades from RFT, I posted a lengthy description by model in this thread: New Telefunken “TF” series mics?

I would say the headgrille change is noteworthy, and most obvious on the TF51. It accentuates the openness and clarity in a certain way that the earlier version did not have. It's a bit tricky to explain and some people probably won't notice, but I am very proud of what our R&D was able to accomplish with this redesign.

Anyways, carry on.

Regards,
James
So I was wrong about the tube, as it's the same.
Very interested how much difference you notice on voice with the new headgrille - on the Copperhead, specifically...
Old 18th April 2019 | Show parent
  #101
Telefunken Elektroakustik
 
Telefunken Lab's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins ➡️
So I was wrong about the tube, as it's the same.
Very interested how much difference you notice on voice with the new headgrille - on the Copperhead, specifically...
On voice, I would say the TF29/39 (new headgrille) has more clarity in the midrange.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins ➡️
Thanks, Paul!
I've never used the AR51. That, or the new TF51 will have to be on my shortlist. It's my understanding that the Copperhead (which is supposed to have the most tamed top end of the three t-funk mics) uses the same capsule as the AK47, so I'd expect that the 51 is even brighter sounding?
Thanks again for your kind words!
It's a different kind of bright. It's balanced and clear as a bell. It won a shootout out with a fussy singer against all my top mics: Horch, Bock, Chandler, C24, Sony C800G, Nu 47 etc. I had to agree with him, it did sound really good on his voice.

The Copperhead sometimes has a nasty top end for me with proximity and stuff. It can sound expensive and it can sound cheap. It's a funny mic, not much depth of field. When it works it works.

That new range sounds like a great reason to snap up bargains from the old range as these things go for half price or a little more.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #103
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Funny Cat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
It's a different kind of bright. It's balanced and clear as a bell. It won a shootout out with a fussy singer against all my top mics: Horch, Bock, Chandler, C24, Sony C800G, Nu 47 etc. I had to agree with him, it did sound really good on his voice.

The Copperhead sometimes has a nasty top end for me with proximity and stuff. It can sound expensive and it can sound cheap. It's a funny mic, not much depth of field. When it works it works.

That new range sounds like a great reason to snap up bargains from the old range as these things go for half price or a little more.

I'm curious Paul, are you playing with distance-from-singer-to-mic when you are doing vocals? For a while I was doing strictly up on the grill miking with vocals, everyone asking for that in your face, whispering in your ear sound but I think I'm getting a little bored with that. Are you finding your mics reacting differently when pulling them back off the vocal a bit? Some are obviously better than others with this in your stable I'm assuming...
Old 19th April 2019
  #104
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
The only mic I've ever gotten good results on with close miking (at least IMO) is an AEA N22. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I always feel like the tradeoff with proximity and lack of openness is not something that appeals to me.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #105
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 2be7eae ➡️
The only mic I've ever gotten good results on with close miking (at least IMO) is an AEA N22. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I always feel like the tradeoff with proximity and lack of openness is not something that appeals to me.
I love that mic.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #106
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
I love that mic.
In all honesty, I think it's the easiest mic I've ever worked with.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat ➡️
I'm curious Paul, are you playing with distance-from-singer-to-mic when you are doing vocals? For a while I was doing strictly up on the grill miking with vocals, everyone asking for that in your face, whispering in your ear sound but I think I'm getting a little bored with that. Are you finding your mics reacting differently when pulling them back off the vocal a bit? Some are obviously better than others with this in your stable I'm assuming...
It depends on the vocal part. Intimacy requires close proximity for me and I find louder less personal vocals need a foot or so rather than spread fingers. Like maybe the verse is up close in solo and the the chorus is triple tracked each part and stood back.

To answer your question yes. For some reason frequencies travel and respond differently on different mics. Today I had a Bock 407 shoot out with a Horch and up close the 407 was very authentic and 50's sounding where the Horch was just as deep but brighter. 2 foot back with a louder approach and they sounded the same.I could switch them without a worry. I'm sure someone could tell me why but for me I just realised I wouldn't buy the 407 and that the Horch was still my 47 champ.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #108
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Like "Mikey" in the classic Life Cereal commercial... If a certain microphone doesn't bring out/accentuate more sibilance in my voice, that's one smooth microphone up top!

Anyway, I was glad when trying the TF 51, it was "just fine" in that department.
Sounded really "balanced" to me-if that makes sense.

If I were in the market for a quality 251-ish microphone, would be sorely tempted to scoop one up. Honestly, I wouldn't feel as confident with the WA-251, but quite a few end users like that one (doesn't seem as full sounding as TF51/AR51).

I like the WA-47 better than the WA-251, that's my relative favorite of their whole line.

+1 on the AEA N22, that's the one Wes himself picked out for my specific voice, over the R92 & KU5A.
That'll probably be the one a Buddy and myself will "Split on" buying, to reside at mainly his Project Studio,
for occasional vocal use. (he usually uses his U87ai).
Chris

P.S. A worthy competitor IMHO to the TF51/AR51, that's also smooth/bright/but not harsh, is the new Soundelux U195.
Plus I think the FAT switch is way cool for some vintage style Mojo. $1250 new, or around $800 used.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #109
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Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Good call, another Bock special.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #110
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
Do you have any experience with the Shure KSM32 or Audio Technica AT4040 mics?
I forgot to answer this. I've never used the KSM mics, but have lots of experience with 40 series ATs.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #111
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 2be7eae ➡️
I forgot to answer this. I've never used the KSM mics, but have lots of experience with 40 series ATs.
How do you find the mics in your shootout compare to the AT4040?

Also, just wondering if you would be will to share the RAW files of your daughters clips? No worries if not
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #112
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk ➡️
How do you find the mics in your shootout compare to the AT4040?

Also, just wondering if you would be will to share the RAW files of your daughters clips? No worries if not
I've used every mic in the 40 series, and still have a 4050. I feel like the Copperhead is the most like the 4050, because it has that upper mid forward character that brings a vocal to the front of the mix. All three of the tube mics are larger sounding than the 4050, and the transients are softened more.
I really like AT mics a lot. Always have.
I have to pass on putting out the raw files of my daughter.
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins ➡️
I've used every mic in the 40 series, and still have a 4050. I feel like the Copperhead is the most like the 4050, because it has that upper mid forward character that brings a vocal to the front of the mix. All three of the tube mics are larger sounding than the 4050, and the transients are softened more.
I really like AT mics a lot. Always have.
I have to pass on putting out the raw files of my daughter.
No problem. Thanks for the info
Old 19th April 2019 | Show parent
  #114
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Has anyone had experience with the iSK 2B Beauty and any of the mics in this thread?
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #115
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
As a V13 owner myself, I can say it's one badass mic. It excels on so many different types of voices. The variable patterns change the tone in a great way. If you need it a little brighter- just a couple clicks towards omni. I just put a Harmonix 12A7/6072A tube in it, and it's really improved the sound of the mic compared to the stock tube. I didn't think it could get better. The harmonix really saturates the midrange and smoothes the top and is just so beefy sounding on vocals. If you have $700-$800 to spend on a vocal mic, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't buy this mic. It's also killer on drum overheads and rooms!
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #116
Gear Nut
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 2be7eae ➡️
While I agree that the V13 is the cleanest in the upper frequencies, I disagree that the other two mics sound "grainy". I feel like the V13 is, among these mics, the one that's more of a blank canvas. The other two have more character. In the case of the Telefunken CU29, it's a much bigger sounding mic than the V13 on vocals, and the WA47 has a more rounded top while remaining very clean. I hate these adjectives, but that's the only way I know to describe them.
Okay, grainy in the highs is a little bit hard, in german language we have this great word "reibig", and its hard to translate but it describes it better.

I try, the higher mids and highs of the Vanguard are by far the smoothest sounding without any touch of graininess or harshness or aggressiveness.

I think as well, that the recording of your daughter is better than the recording of your voice and the guitar (mixed all in the middle, and your voice and the guitar has mainly the same frequencies...).

But i'm sure you did a lot other tests.
The Copperhead for me, is a little bit too boomy sounding and a little aggressive, fine on voices that are indifferent or muddy sounding.


On the other side it depends on the signal/voice and whatever.

But i can say, i use the Vanguard V13 a lot on different singers and signals, mostly on acoustic guitar.
For me a really fine microphone.

And don't forget to use other characteristics like two steps to figure eight, sounding excellent on vocals and acoustic guitar.
Old 20th April 2019 | Show parent
  #117
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Actually, I was very impressed with all three microphones. Also Shannon and his daughter both have exceptional voices too. Among the best tone quality of anyone, who've put up audio clips at GS.

A big difference from 30+ years ago, would be they would already have major label interest!

I wish my voice was as far along at 17, as his daughter's! (I was a very late bloomer)
Chris
Old 20th April 2019
  #118
Deleted 2be7eae 🎙️
Guest
Chris, you are far too kind

After having some time with these mics together for the past week and a half, I just can't state emphatically enough what a great bargain the V13 is. I mean, seriously, it's only $750. I don't share the sentiment of some that it's a better mic than the others, but it's undoubtedly the best package of all three, and it's the most affordable, and the quality of the sound is for sure just as good!
Mic manufacturers should be on notice that this kind of quality is attainable now at this price point. Many of us consumers are getting to the point where we just don't care about name brand recognition. I know I don't... At all. What I look for is something that's well built, something that looks inspiring, and most importantly... Something that performs well! I also want to know that I can pick up the phone and call the manufacturer and speak with a real person who truly believes in their product and will back it up with customer support.
I've personally spoken with the guys at AEA, Vanguard and Telefunken, and have nothing but praise for the interactions I've had.
Unfortunately, right now I can only keep one of these 3 mics, so it's going to be the Copperhead... In part, because I already owned it and would have to sell it at a loss to keep the Vanguard. But I also like it the best on the majority of songs. I will be saving up for a V13 in the near future, though
Old 20th April 2019
  #119
Lives for gear
 
andersmv's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As much as I love Vanguard and the V13, I think you made the right choice. The copperhead just sounded better for you, and you needed a mic specifically for you. Carry on!
Old 23rd April 2019 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
tymish's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 2be7eae ➡️
The only mic I've ever gotten good results on with close miking (at least IMO) is an AEA N22. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I always feel like the tradeoff with proximity and lack of openness is not something that appeals to me.
Anyone tried out the new AEA KU5A? Sure looks like a winner. Like a ribbon mic with SM7 usability. I've heard some youtube tracks and sounds good though maybe a bit shy in the lows but that could easily be the mix.
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