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Nuendo vs. ProTools LE
Old 24th October 2002
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Nuendo vs. ProTools LE

I was pretty convinced that I was going to go ProTools with the Digi 002 system, but I've been checking out Nuendo as well.

From what I can dig up, it seems folks are digging the sound over PT...and it seems that for Native, the feature set stomps all over the 002. Maybe there just isn't enough feedback on the 002 yet.

Am I reading this right? It seems most of the Nuendo systems are also Windows based. I'm really more of a Mac guy...how is the system on the Mac? I'm interested in audio as well as MIDI funtionality. I'm not much of a MIDI guy...so when I use it, I don't want to putz around with it too much. ProTools seems to have MIDI set up pretty well for an idiot like me....Nuendo?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

-Moze
Old 24th October 2002
  #2
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Once you get the toy controller "Huston" and tear all your hair out with the PC - will it still be cheaper?
Old 24th October 2002
  #3
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've never messed with the MIDI functions of Nuendo... but have been very impressed with the sound and the function of the Nuendo system. The "not being able to crap out the 2 buss" thing works for me in a huge way. Sonically, I have found it to be about the best progam I've ever messed around with.

It works great on Macs... being a PC kind of shop, I'm still waiting for my 'PC' version of the software... but from my limited amount of use with the system on a Mac... it pisses all over Alsihad in a big way... a big way.
Old 24th October 2002
  #4
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jeronimo's Avatar
How's audio editing on Nuendo? A friend told me it's very, very good...
I'm 100% with PT LE right now, and I've tried Logic and DP and I'm not switching right now... but the thing with digidesing beign all "mandatory" w/ it's own hardware pisses me off...
I wish I could put my hands on Nuendo in my machine and see how it goes
Old 24th October 2002
  #5
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm very, very surprised you liked it Fletcher. I have to this day yet to be brought one thing recorded on Nuendo that sounded better that mackie quality. Maybe it's a conversion to Pro tools thing...
Old 24th October 2002
  #6
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jeronimo's Avatar
So Fletcher,
You're saying the 2-buss architecture on Nuendo, sounds better than PT LE?
Old 24th October 2002
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
IMHO I think everybody is confused about the almighty Pro Tools.If you take a good quality converter and record to a hard drive it is on the hard drive with good quality.Now how you move it around is the issue.Pro Tools was originally made when processors in computers were very slow,they sold systems because of there dsp cards taking the load off cpu not because of it's sonic quality.That same dae from back in the day is still being used,they just lay code over and over on it.Now Pro Tools LE is another story it is native,the math is done on the computer not the same old dae.

I have a Pro Tools HD system in front of me at the moment,also I have Nuendo,Logic,DP all installed on the same machine,I can take a number of cards and put them in the machine and pass audio digitally from a Cranesong Spider(my converter of choice) into the native apps and have the same quality audio as if I go aes into the HD system,it does not matter in any way shape or form what app captures the audio it's on the hard drive period.

Now back to the original poster's question PT le vs Nuendo.Pro Tools le is sold only because of the strong hold it's big brother has on the Daw world not for it's features lets face that music.It does not even have dual processor support,I wonder why, how about the fact that it's big brother is still being sold only because of it's dsp cards not it's sonic quality.The people at Digidesign are clever but they can only ride the dsp thing for so long and the party will be over.They have people with small studios suffering with an inept program like Pro Tools le,for one reason and one reason only to say they have Pro Tools, the program does not even come close to any other native program and is not going to due to the fact that if it did it would take sales away from it's big brother.

Now the reason I have Pro Tools HD is because I had to make some money on Digidesign's coat tails for the time I have put in on there systems.I remember when they were a two man crew and would call you up to see if YOU made any developments and you would tell them they would write more code over the dae.Then along came Avid and guess what those original phone lines were cut off and it was the way it is today,take what we give you when we give it to you and this is how much it will cost you.This is no big deal except that original dae summing they wrote is in no way as good as the native summing math of today and I am still paying for dsp,which is at this point became a non issue of sorts.

I am pretty sure Fletcher has no idea math wise why he likes the sound of a native daw it just sounds better to him,part of that is due to the fact that he is not on 10 year old software that when originally designed had little or any concerns with sonic quality these two guys were just trying to keep the dam thing running.

So to sum all this **** up,if I have to draw clients, that have no idea why something sounds good through a door to make money then the Digidesign HD solution makes sense at the moment.But if I have the luxury of using what ever converters,software ect I want to IMO to be honest with myself Digidesign on both the native platform and the HD platform make little or no sense..

dfegad
Old 24th October 2002
  #8
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Compression Man
I am pretty sure Fletcher has no idea math wise why he likes the sound of a native daw it just sounds better to him,
Bingo...
Old 24th October 2002
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
I've never messed with the MIDI functions of Nuendo... but have been very impressed with the sound and the function of the Nuendo system. The "not being able to crap out the 2 buss" thing works for me in a huge way. Sonically, I have found it to be about the best progam I've ever messed around with.

It works great on Macs... being a PC kind of shop, I'm still waiting for my 'PC' version of the software... but from my limited amount of use with the system on a Mac... it pisses all over Alsihad in a big way... a big way.
That seems to be the opinion of most people who have actually listened to both boxes.

I've always had the luxury of using big consoles (SSL 4K, 9K, Neve, etc...) with 2", 3348 or Fairlight. I'm hoping to bring a small glimmer of that into my basement. This is a total "Busman's Holiday" situation. I've got no illusions about my computer giving me that, but I sure as **** don't want to through my money away.

My ProTools experience has always been running it "tape machine" style through an actual desk. Having never mixed within the box, I'm concerned about the 2 buss issues....and it sounds as if Nuendo has a handle on that...

For Nuendo users....what are the things that piss you off about it? There's got to be something...I can name things that piss me off or at the very least annoy me about pretty much any format/piece o' gear...

-Moze
Old 25th October 2002
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Compression Man
IMHO I think everybody is confused about the almighty Pro Tools.If you take a good quality converter and record to a hard drive it is on the hard drive with good quality.
So to sum all this **** up,if I have to draw clients, that have no idea why something sounds good through a door to make money then the Digidesign HD solution makes sense at the moment.But if I have the luxury of using what ever converters,software ect I want to IMO to be honest with myself Digidesign on both the native platform and the HD platform make little or no sense..

dfegad
Interesting how the greatest songs in the history of rock and roll were probably NOT recorded in Protools.... "Dark Side of the Moon", was that recorded on a Digi HD system?? HELL NO!

If you recorded a hit tune with LUCID convertors and Logic (which is entirely possible), and went on MTV or VH1 and blabbed to everyone how great LUCiD and Logic was, the next day there would be a rush to scoop up LUCIC and Logic combos....

Same thing with Digi and PT....although I wonder how many of those hits recorded with PT were due to some engineering genius rather than the gear....

I have to admit, the PT software is pretty intuitive and the learning curve is minimal, couple that with a full blown Digi rig that takes the guess work out of DSP power and its an attractive recording platform.....

my best guess is that the Digi devotees just havent explored any other avenues because they have too much time and money invested in their rigs to switch....the approach then becomes "ProTools is the only way to go and everything else sucks, because I use it, have used it and I would never switch"

its like Dad buying a Chevy every 3 years from 1955 to 1985
Old 25th October 2002
  #11
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Howdy everybody!

Pro Tools is an industry standard for many reasons. It is stable and works well in a professional environment. It has a very large user base (thus the industry standard). IMO the sound quality IS there, from what I've heard and worked with and what other clients and prospective clients have said. PT|HD sounds great. Anyway back to the 002 vs Nuendo topic.

002 is a better solution because:
1) it is compatible with its "big brother" seamlessly
2) It is stable and one vender. This means if there is a problem there is only one phone call to get it fixed. You don't have to wait on "the other" vender to get the drivers ready. No one seems to ever mention this.
3) A great value for the money spent
4) I haven't listened to its converters yet but I'm sure they are decent. But it a user wanted to use it in a "higher end" solution, you could always use another converter and go in digitaly.

There are many other reasons but these are the ones I thought were most relevant at the moment.

HTH

Darren
Old 25th October 2002
  #12
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by captain54


Interesting how the greatest songs in the history of rock and roll were probably NOT recorded in Protools.... "Dark Side of the Moon", was that recorded on a Digi HD system?? HELL NO!
Neither was the entire Elvis repertoire .... duh .... grggt
Old 25th October 2002
  #13
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Chris!

LOL!

Darren
Old 25th October 2002
  #14
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What is up with all the new users chiming in stuff we've already been over a bahgahtrazfahdookielahzillion times?
Old 25th October 2002
  #15
Gear Nut
 
Crushed's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nuendo

I use Nuendo and love it. It does everything I could possibly ask for in a recorder, and even moreso as an editor. I try not to go overborad with the editing functions, but sometimes I get carried away just because I can. The summing buss is brilliant, although I couldn't say why quantitatively.

I can honestly say that there is nothing that I don't like about Nuendo. It's more like things are limited resource-wise, but this is just processing power, and is not Nuendo's fault. I just get tired of taking a huge hit on WAVES reverb. Oh well, it's time to upgrade my MOBO and stuff.
Old 25th October 2002
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts


Neither was the entire Elvis repertoire .... duh .... grggt

Reading and comprehending is a skill.....

If you truly read and understood my post, you would be able to read between the lines that I was simply was making a point that great music can be created without ProTools....

Why you chose to fire back with a dumb ass comment like the one you made is pretty bizarre...

DUH!
Old 25th October 2002
  #17
Han
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by captain54



Reading and comprehending is a skill.....

If you truly read and understood my post, you would be able to read between the lines that I was simply was making a point that great music can be created without ProTools....

Why you chose to fire back with a dumb ass comment like the one you made is pretty bizarre...

DUH!
Hahahahahaha!! You have a pretty big mouth captain. Relax brother, it's obvious you don't know Chris (yet).

Chilling time! ???
Old 25th October 2002
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Pro Tools is an industry standard for many reasons. It is stable and works well in a professional environment. It has a very large user base (thus the industry standard).
Time for a Google search on "network externalities". This is basically the economic notion that people buy into a product because it is what everbody else has bought into, not necessarily due to it's particular merits. Historical examples have been VHS beating Betamax, Microsoft dominating operating systems, and the current trend towards SUV ownership. An interesting thing about SUV's, it's more convenient to have one in traffic among the other beheomeths because you can see traffic past the one in front of you, and it's easier to see when backing out of a parking space between two of the tanks, but you take a hit in gas mileage, and despite perceptions to the contrary, you are substantially less safe driving one. (Read the story to find out that you're more at risk for paralysis from being in one of the buggers, among other surprises.)

Compatability is not the best arguement for selecting an audio system. It is non-audio reasons that have had the most to do with making ProTools the standard, namely that it was there first, it was not ridiculously expensive or woefully inadequate, and they acheived a lock-in at an early point. The native systems that seek to compete make damn sure they have OMF file compatability so their users can swap audio data with this installed user base, because they know how many fewer units they would sell if this were not the case.

Bear
Old 26th October 2002
  #19
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by captain54
...I was simply was making a point that great music can be created without ProTools....
Ofcourse

and the evidence is : ELVIS.
Old 26th October 2002
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Han


Hahahahahaha!! You have a pretty big mouth captain. Relax brother, it's obvious you don't know Chris (yet).

Chilling time! ???
Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last I've been accused of a big yapper....

Basically, I made what I thought was an intelligent post and then someone fires back and takes a shot at me.....not cool

Please, let's consider this matter dropped....
Old 26th October 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sonce Nuendo comes with OMF import and export, going to and from a Pro-Tools system should be quite easy. As long as the Pro-Tools user has digitranslator.
Old 26th October 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
It is stable and one vender. This means if there is a problem there is only one phone call to get it fixed. You don't have to wait on "the other" vender to get the drivers ready. No one seems to ever mention this.
If you are talking Digidesifn.. I would be careful how often you use the terms "You don't have to wait ".. well I guess you dont wait for other vendoers, you just have to wait for digi..
Old 27th October 2002
  #23
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The sound quality of any host-based system should not be an issue, at all.

Every single host-based DAW uses the 32-bit floating point math inherent in the host computer's processor.

Which boils down to this: The user interface is what you will fall in love with, or not fall in love with.

I'm using the Digi001, and I love it.

I've not used Nuendo yet, but I've heard mixes from the Nuendo rig that my singer was produced on before she came to work with me. The sound quality did not exactly scream, "SWITCH TO NUENDO!!!" On the contrary; but that is totally not the point.

The difference lies in the skills of the engineer, and the engineer's working relationship with the user interface. Put differently: If you LOVE your work surface, then you will produce great works on it.

And if you don't, then you won't.

Do what ya like, and use what ya like. But don't blame your failures on the tools. That's kinda lame, dontcha think?

YMMV.
Old 27th October 2002
  #24
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Choose your tools...

Yeah I know what you mean. Many tools will work and probably acomplish a similar result. But it is a whole lot easier to get to work in car than on a skate board. Even though both may be enjoyable.

With Digi you may have to wait for the initial release, but when it is released it is usually right and will do what they say it will and then some. The cool thing is... if something does go wrong you don't have to go between companies that keep passing the buck and spending countless hours on the phone to still not have a solution. With Digi it cuts down that hassle. You know if there is a problem and you did everything they told you to do, then you can hold them accountable to solve it. And they will, if it gets that far. Usually it is a user error. But for a user it really doesn't matter who's fault it is, it just matters how soon he/she can get online again. I love that about digidesign. They are a mature company, and they know their stuff.

... anyway enough about digi blah, blah, blah.

Darren
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