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The Oktava Microphone Thread!
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1141
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
What would you think of this device (inline FET pre-amp/booster with switchable impedances)...
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-inline-preamp
...with a mic like the ML-52 or 53 ribbons, or maybe a Beyerdynamic M160 or M130 (another interesting way to do stereo miking, those to Beyers in mid-side). If I get any ribbon mics I'll get some kind of inline gain booster like a FEThead, Cloudlifter etc but this sE DM2 has an interesting feature with all those impedance settings. The o/p impedance of the gain booster itself I couldn't find but the ad says "lowest in its class". I do like that you can switch the gain to 15 or 30dB and not have only the one setting.
There's also a version of the Cloudlifter with adjustable Z from 150 to 15k ohms and 12 or 24dB gain plus variable HPF, but it costs a lot more. If I get a ribbon mic or two I'd want an inline booster, and the 2 gain settings sound handy, but how useful would the ability to change Z be? Would you use it yourself?
I wouldn't use it myself because I have a good preamp with a fairly high-Z input (a Millennia) and I don't have long cable runs. If I had a 200-foot run in a remote application, I would definitely use it. These are tools to fix a specific problem and if you have that problem you should use it and if you don't have that problem it's just more stuff in your signal path to add noise.

I do not think the ability to change impedance will be useful at all for something like an ML52 or ML53 which really wants to see a high impedance. It might be very useful for moving coil dynamics though.

Note that Oktava did make a version of the ML-52 with active electronics, which would be like having a microphone with a cloudlifter already installed inside it. I have not seen one of those in a while, though.
--scott
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
I wouldn't use it myself because I have a good preamp with a fairly high-Z input (a Millennia) and I don't have long cable runs. If I had a 200-foot run in a remote application, I would definitely use it. These are tools to fix a specific problem and if you have that problem you should use it and if you don't have that problem it's just more stuff in your signal path to add noise.

I do not think the ability to change impedance will be useful at all for something like an ML52 or ML53 which really wants to see a high impedance. It might be very useful for moving coil dynamics though.

Note that Oktava did make a version of the ML-52 with active electronics, which would be like having a microphone with a cloudlifter already installed inside it. I have not seen one of those in a while, though.
--scott
Thanks Scott, your advice always appreciated. I did a little googling and there are some good resources to read for impedance matching, sounds like I'd better give myself a refresher. Obviously I need to use dynamics all the time and I sometimes have to use long cable runs, not often as long as 200 feet but it has happened. Sometimes once you go from mic to sub box to stage box and some serpentine access to the far-away ops position the total run may be even longer than that.

I've seen plenty of articles about the relationships between mic and pre-amp impedance and I'll follow them up, but if I may ask, how would you set such a gadget if you DID need to use long cable runs?
Thanks again, I never did study enough analogue electronics considering what I do for a living, only simple stuff. Now I'm interested in buying more equipment it would be a good time to catch up somewhat.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1143
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
I've seen plenty of articles about the relationships between mic and pre-amp impedance and I'll follow them up, but if I may ask, how would you set such a gadget if you DID need to use long cable runs?
Let's say I have a ribbon mike and a long run out to the truck. I'd put the gadget at the microphone, so the microphone is seeing a high impedance input, there's a very short cable carrying the high impedance signal, and the line to the truck is low impedance so cable effects aren't an issue anymore.

I once had a gig with a 441 at a lectern going into a PA system that I had no control over, which had multiple noise problems. Since I couldn't fix the PA issues and since I didn't want the noise in the feed I was getting from the PA crew, I put a pre-preamplifier like that directly at the microphone. Now the line in the snake is carrying a very low-impedance signal and it's 20 dB higher, so noise is much less of an issue. The 441 doesn't care what impedance it sees... it is okay with a 400 ohm load or a 40k ohm load, so the only benefit was on the output end.

The SM57 wants a very low impedance... it was designed to go into maybe a 600 ohm load into a transformer input like a Shure M67 mixer. It isn't happy going into a Mackie 1202. Not all dynamic mikes are touchy that way but the SM57 is. The cheap and cheerful way of dealing with that is to add a shunt resistor in a barrel connector so the mike sees more a load than it otherwise would. This is the opposite of the issue with a ribbon mike which wants to see as little load as possible.
--scott
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1144
Thanks again Scott, very kind of you. I'd read about the case of the SM57, it's an old design of course and I'd been told about this issue with modern desks and 57's. When I started mixing the standard small live console was a Soundcraft 1S or 200B, it wouldn't surprise me if they better matched a 57.

In my line of work that little pre-preamp with Z-switch might just be a slight advantage. The info about long cable runs and Z is great stuff, thanks so much. I rarely see a recording split but a monitor console split happens often enough, and for important sources, sure, let's buffer it, why not.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1145
There was a big drop in the US sharemarket today, which as usual the Australian market followed, and the AUD has had a sharp drop against both the USD and Euro. So I want to buy my remaining mic imports ASAP as I expect it to only get worse. This would be a good time to buy any more Oktava purchases and there are some I want, but I don't have enough money left, I've spent a lot of my income on equipment this year already. So I will have to do it in stages and if the AUD drops too far it won't be viable. I do have plenty of good mics to do what I need to do but I was hoping to get the ones I would like to have while it's still cheap to get them. I can't only buy them because I would enjoy them for myself, I have to get what would most help me get paying work, but there are a few I would get if I could even before I have work for them, if they are cheap enough.

I want to make a purchase from Thomann first, then Oktava Shop for a pair of 101's. I'd still like a 2500 but I have kept delaying that until I get other stuff I need first. Thomann is still the cheapest place to get an MKL-2500.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1146
@ kludgeaudio Do you know what good windscreens fit the MK-012? I'm thinking about the Rycote BBG, but I'd prefer to try something a bit smaller like a Baseball, Softie/Super Softie, or the Movo windscreens that are basically Super Softie copies.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1147
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh ➡️
@ kludgeaudio Do you know what good windscreens fit the MK-012? I'm thinking about the Rycote BBG, but I'd prefer to try something a bit smaller like a Baseball, Softie/Super Softie, or the Movo windscreens that are basically Super Softie copies.
BBG works fine, get the 25mm one. If you're looking for something slightly smaller, a lot cheaper, and nearly as transparent, try the WindTech US-1. I have really liked that whole series from WindTech a lot.
--scott
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1148
Just had a look at the FR graph that came with my MK-101, I hadn't really paid attention to it before. I have to admit, that's a pretty smooth curve for this type of capsule (ignoring the minor Everest on the left there). 1dB per division
Not so sure I want to sell it now.
Attached Thumbnails
The Oktava Microphone Thread!-oktava-mk-101-fr-graph.jpg  
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1149
Attaching Overheads boom to lighting bar or truss

I was hoping to ask Aggelos as he knows about these products, but he seems to be away now. So does anyone know a good way to attach a boom arm from a mic stand to a lighting bar?

There are Manfrotto products that look like they might work. If I understand it you can get a spigot with adapter to take mic holders, and I could attach the boom to that. But I don't like the idea of the mics and boom hanging off that spigot and adapters, and the boom should have a counter-weight which only adds weight. So I'd prefer to have the vertical tube of a mic stand with the boom on it, on some kind of double clamp. I've seen plenty that clamp 2 lighting bars together but can't see one to do a mic stand tube to a lighting bar.

Has anyone done this? I want to attach the boom above the drummer where I work and leave mic leads on it, so when I come in all I have to do is attach the mount with mics to the boom and plug in. Probably with a mic quick-release. I like the MK-102's in X-Y as my overheads as I've posted but I'm looking for a better installation, it's pretty cramped behind the drummer for a mic stand. Any suggestions? I thought of a desk-style arm but I don't want it sagging. If you know one that is strong enough then by all means. THanks

EDIT - this looks like a possibility, one side clamps to the truss, the other to a boom or stand for a boom, without the tripod base. It says the clamping range is 13 to 55 mm, there are plenty of clamps I'm familiar with for the lighting bar/truss but how to attach the mic support. If it can really go down to 13 mm then it'll take a mic stand

Last edited by BernieW; 1 week ago at 08:20 PM.. Reason: Too long as usual
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1150
Aww for once I ordered mics and there were no Oktavas in the order! I'll make up for it next time. I did mostly complete my live mixing mic kit. Plenty of offers for my MK-101 and if that sells soon then I'll put that towards a matched pair, I'd like to end up with an extra pre-amp so I can use 2 pairs of 102's and another MK-012 stereo pair for church work.

I'd have bought an sE DM2 TNT FET head amp with switchable Z, or 2, but just before I ordered they ran out of stock. I did OK on the exchange rate, it dipped a few cents in my favour for just long enough to get my order paid and then returned to where it was. Still interested in an MKL-2500 but I'll hold on until I'm ready to buy new, I'm going to take the advice of not risking the used market on a mic like that and I didn't quite like the ones I saw advertised.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #1151
If you had a choice of a matched pair of MK-319's or MK-101's, what would you choose? Based purely on sonic performance, let's not consider whether you want to use different capsules on the pre-amps or anything. Say you're at a studio and you're offered a choice for your recording. What would you go with and how did you make your choice, or are they too close to call
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #1152
Gear Guru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
If you had a choice of a matched pair of MK-319's or MK-101's, what would you choose? Based purely on sonic performance, let's not consider whether you want to use different capsules on the pre-amps or anything. Say you're at a studio and you're offered a choice for your recording. What would you go with and how did you make your choice, or are they too close to call
Not being familiar with the 101’s I’d guess that the 319’s will be more colored. Really depends if you like that....
Old 3 days ago
  #1153
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sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
So I got a used MKL-2500 on a whim. Just tried a basic talk test to get a feel for the sound and compared it to my SM7B which I know well. Obviously very different mics. I found the MKL-2500 to be just okay so far, where I detected sibilance as a little harsh and some resonance which I think can be dealt with with a mechanical mod like the 319? Either way, I'll spend some time with it on some real sources. Thinking it could be a cool drum room mic, or vocal mic for the right part. The power supply is the chinese one, I think, so it's possible I will also look into modding it to get the noise floor down. I think I read somewhere there's something to be done about that.

For what I spent, I wasn't expecting to be blown away, but maybe I was hoping to notice a little more of that "larger than life" tube sound. Again, this is very preliminary as a talk test on my voice isn't anything to get excited about. But thought I'd drop first impressions here.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
So I got a used MKL-2500 on a whim. Just tried a basic talk test to get a feel for the sound and compared it to my SM7B which I know well. Obviously very different mics. I found the MKL-2500 to be just okay so far, where I detected sibilance as a little harsh and some resonance which I think can be dealt with with a mechanical mod like the 319? Either way, I'll spend some time with it on some real sources. Thinking it could be a cool drum room mic, or vocal mic for the right part. The power supply is the chinese one, I think, so it's possible I will also look into modding it to get the noise floor down. I think I read somewhere there's something to be done about that.

For what I spent, I wasn't expecting to be blown away, but maybe I was hoping to notice a little more of that "larger than life" tube sound. Again, this is very preliminary as a talk test on my voice isn't anything to get excited about. But thought I'd drop first impressions here.
Thanks, I've been interested in this mic myself for a while. I've heard some nice recordings done with it. I would guess you'd have to experiment a little to find the sweet spots. The fact of having a tube is interesting but for me, being a 33mm capsule is why I really want to give it a shot.
Did you get it from Reverb? One seller had 2 with non-Russian PSU's, on the back there was the name of a UK supplier. I wonder if it's old enough that the tube has reached the point where it might need replacing, you can get spares from a few places inc Oktava Shop online. Cool I'm interested to hear from someone who bought a used one and to see how it pans out for you
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1155
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sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
So, I just decided to try it again, having left it on to "warm up" for an hour or so. The mic definitely came to life a bit more, and sounds a bit fuller, warmer, and more natural now. Definitely much more pleasant than my first test, so that's encouraging. I did sing a little before and now, so have a decent comparison of my terrible voice, and it sounds much better as well (and was more inspiring in the headphones).

So, just wanted to give this update, as I likely just didn't let the tube warm up enough earlier. I was considering turning around and selling it pretty much right away, but now it will definitely stay a while for more testing.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1156
Lives for gear
 
sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
Thanks, I've been interested in this mic myself for a while. I've heard some nice recordings done with it. I would guess you'd have to experiment a little to find the sweet spots. The fact of having a tube is interesting but for me, being a 33mm capsule is why I really want to give it a shot.
Did you get it from Reverb? One seller had 2 with non-Russian PSU's, on the back there was the name of a UK supplier. I wonder if it's old enough that the tube has reached the point where it might need replacing, you can get spares from a few places inc Oktava Shop online. Cool I'm interested to hear from someone who bought a used one and to see how it pans out for you
So yeah, the one I got was from Reverb. The seller said he put a NOS tube in there - haven't opened it up yet to confirm, but he said it helped.

Tell me about the 33mm capsule. I assumed it had the same capsule as the 219 and 319. Is that not the case?

And yes, this one has a chinese PSU, but Russian mic, at least it appears so with the flathead screws and inspection of the capsule.

Isn't there a way to mod the PSU to get the noise floor down? Also interested in the mechanical resonance mods, as I do detect that a bit and could see that getting old fast. Maybe Mr. Dorsey will pop in and send me in the right direction.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
So yeah, the one I got was from Reverb. The seller said he put a NOS tube in there - haven't opened it up yet to confirm, but he said it helped.

Tell me about the 33mm capsule. I assumed it had the same capsule as the 219 and 319. Is that not the case?

And yes, this one has a chinese PSU, but Russian mic, at least it appears so with the flathead screws and inspection of the capsule.

Isn't there a way to mod the PSU to get the noise floor down? Also interested in the mechanical resonance mods, as I do detect that a bit and could see that getting old fast. Maybe Mr. Dorsey will pop in and send me in the right direction.
Sorry I haven't got much info for you, I found out about the 33mm dia. from the Oktava Shop site, at this link:
https://www.oktava-shop.com/Tube-mic...-MKL-2500.html
It's not the same as the 219 or 319, or the MK-101 which is supposed to be the 26mm 219 capsule to fit on the MK-012 pre-amp/mic body. The 2500 with its 33mm diaphragm is the largest diameter I've heard of, there are some other high-end valve mics they make with large diaphragms that may be different but there's not a great deal of info or reviews of these. I mean the MKL-4000 and 5000, some others at the oktava-microphones dot com site which is somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Pretty sure the mic itself will be Russian, there were one or two models of PSU commissioned by distributors of the mic like the UK one, I don't know if that's the same as a Chinese PSU or was it made in the UK too. The ones I saw on Reverb did have the name of a British company on the back.

There is some mod they do to the PSU's but I'm not the guy to tell you about it sorry, there was something about this about a month or so ago back in this thread if you have a search. Someone who knows these things had some info. There are some pretty nice results recorded with 2500's out there, you'll find a post and a link somewhere around the same time in this thread. Also on the O. shop site look down the page and there are some samples of the mic on different sources, I haven't got my good monitoring available right now so to me I can't pick up much of the uniqueness of this mic. I had it in mind for VO work myself but if you say it's on the harsh side I'd have to see how it went for me. I actually liked the 101-8 capsule on my voice so long as the back lobe of the figure-8 was pointing into some deadening material. A few times I came close to buying one recently then I always had some other priority to get first, but I would still like to pick one up and a matched pair of 101's
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
So, I just decided to try it again, having left it on to "warm up" for an hour or so. The mic definitely came to life a bit more, and sounds a bit fuller, warmer, and more natural now. Definitely much more pleasant than my first test, so that's encouraging. I did sing a little before and now, so have a decent comparison of my terrible voice, and it sounds much better as well (and was more inspiring in the headphones).

So, just wanted to give this update, as I likely just didn't let the tube warm up enough earlier. I was considering turning around and selling it pretty much right away, but now it will definitely stay a while for more testing.
Aha, that makes sense. Always was told to give them a good long warm-up first. That's good news, I was hoping to hear you got good results, thanks
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1159
Lives for gear
 
sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️

Pretty sure the mic itself will be Russian, there were one or two models of PSU commissioned by distributors of the mic like the UK one, I don't know if that's the same as a Chinese PSU or was it made in the UK too. The ones I saw on Reverb did have the name of a British company on the back.
Thanks for this. That is cool to know about the capsule.

As far as the PSU, do you mean that the British company (ASM?) logo was on the back of the power supply? Or just the mic? I read somewhere that a whole bunch of original russian oktavas had the ASM logo on the back, as they were the importer or something like that, so it's not a great way to identify whether it's a chinese version or not. I think looking at the capsule is the best way to do that.

I'll dig around this 40-something page thread to try to find the PSU mods to lower noise. If it's easy, I'll give it a shot.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1160
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sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
Aha, that makes sense. Always was told to give them a good long warm-up first. That's good news, I was hoping to hear you got good results, thanks
Yes, more low end, warmer sound, balanced the highs better. I do think the body resonance (if that's what I'm hearing) needs to be dealt with to make it truly sing. Cool mic for the price. Give it a shot and see what you think - you can always turn around and sell it to recoup your expense if it isn't a good fit.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
Thanks for this. That is cool to know about the capsule.

As far as the PSU, do you mean that the British company (ASM?) logo was on the back of the power supply? Or just the mic? I read somewhere that a whole bunch of original russian oktavas had the ASM logo on the back, as they were the importer or something like that, so it's not a great way to identify whether it's a chinese version or not. I think looking at the capsule is the best way to do that.

I'll dig around this 40-something page thread to try to find the PSU mods to lower noise. If it's easy, I'll give it a shot.
There was ASM on the mic itself but on the back of the PSU there was another company name, definitely a British company and I think it even said made in the UK. I can't remember if it was ASM or not but I don't think so. Whatever it was it was clear that it was a British 3rd-party, and it looks different to the Russian PSU. The Russian one has the sockets and switches on the narrow end of the rectangle and the UK one on the broad side, like it's turned 90 degrees. It might be a completely different design for all I know.
An old trick to reduce resonance on the original-model Beta 57's was to just wrap a heavy rubber band or two tightly around that cast grill before they changed to the wire grill, it's ugly but you might be able to try it on yours to see if it damps the resonance, if that's what you're hearing. More than one Oktava has been known for that problem like the ML-52 ribbon mic, the 53 was the same mic in a differnt housing for that reason, and I believe that's also one reason why the 219 got redesigned into the 319 and 519
Yeah I liked the idea of this mic for what it cost, there are several affordable valve LDC's around but they tend to be Chinese and this Oktava seems like a nicer mic. It really seems like value and since I'm buying a selection of different stuff out of my own pocket I need to buy carefully, but this one has stayed on my wanted list
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #1162
Long K&M mic boom

Has anyone tried the K&M 25530 extra-long microphone boom? I'm just wondering if this is the one Aggelos meant when he was talking about them sagging, but he hasn't been around for a while. It's up to 1.5m / 5' long, telescopic with a counter-weight.

I bought a double clamp that will attach to a lighting bar, and the 2nd clamp is going to hold a threaded rod and a mic boom over the drums at a venue where I work regularly. I'll leave it installed and attach my MK-102 overhead pair in an SM-MSR stereo shockmount, using a quick-release and installed cabling. Sometimes there isn't much room to position stands for overheads behind the drummer. I want the extra length so the drums don't have to be in the exact same place each time, and I might want it for other jobs.

If anyone knows a better boom I'd be interested. The clamp can hold anything from about 20mm to 52mm (2" lighting bar or truss), it might even go down to 16mm, not sure, but I could always wrap something around a thinner bar to increase diameter. I'm going to use a short length of bar with the right thread cut onto it, held vertically by the clamp with the boom on that.
EDIT 3 months to get a roll of mic cable, but it finally arrived. I should have just paid the difference and got retail. I'd intended to get it and some connectors in bulk, so while waiting I put the money into another mic and accessories order, which arrives today. Finally got my M88, another DI and a lot of mounting options. No problem with buying overseas but every time these shipping companies drive me to despair. Only DHL is good, they're expensive but I'm happy to pay it to save the grief
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #1163
The amazing MK-102

I know I've mentioned how much I like the MK-102 on overheads in X-Y several times but I have to say, last night I had to just use one in mono and I couldn't believe how well it worked. There was a certain loss of detail without the stereo image of course but if anything the fullness was a little better. Maybe this drummer is just a hard hitter or tunes his toms well, but I had plenty of toms in the overhead, I could have lived without the toms mics and just had kick and one overhead mic. I do also use close mics for a big toms sound, but heavily gated so it's just the 2 main mics most of the time. For me this is unheard-of on a gig of this type and size.

In several applications, repeatedly the MK-102 capsules have been my favourite mic out of all the stuff I've bought in the past year. That includes some studio recordings my friend made with them too. I've heard some nice vocal and acoustic guitar recordings with 102's and I'm sure I will find other uses for them. There aren't many end-address LDC's of this type (I can't actually think of any) and I am so glad I got these while I could.
Old 23 hours ago | Show parent
  #1164
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieW ➡️
If anyone knows a better boom I'd be interested.
Tama. Latch Lake.

Beyond that it starts getting into money.
--scott
Old 20 hours ago | Show parent
  #1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
Tama. Latch Lake.

Beyond that it starts getting into money.
--scott
I'm kinda surprised Tama makes mic stands. They're the drum company owned by the same parent company as Ibanez right?

Totally off topic but Ibanez disappoints me. Maybe they'll bring back the ATK or Road Gear basses with the MM or J/MM pick ups. Other than that I'm not really interested in what they've got now since it seems like a lot of budget P/J basses and semi-hollows.
Old 19 hours ago | Show parent
  #1166
Ibanez probably simply changed management, FROM their glory days through some iterations TO the safe boring drek they have now. The usual story for big companies.

Tama mic stands are good, alwa6have been. I like to think it's because they use the same designers as their drim and cymbal hardware. They have always been heavy, strong, conservatively designed stands and I appreciate the reminder. The only problem is they are a little harder to get sometimes
Old 18 hours ago | Show parent
  #1167
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohreetoh ➡️
I'm kinda surprised Tama makes mic stands. They're the drum company owned by the same parent company as Ibanez right?
Precisely. And drummers like to hit things, so they make stuff that won't get too badly damaged when drummers use them.
--scott
Old 12 hours ago | Show parent
  #1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
Precisely. And drummers like to hit things, so they make stuff that won't get too badly damaged when drummers use them.
--scott
That's actually a really good point.
Old 11 hours ago | Show parent
  #1169
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
Can't beat it.
Chris
Old 11 hours ago
  #1170
Lives for gear
 
sirjuxtable's Avatar
 
Love the Tama stands.
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