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Advanced Audio CM800T (AA's take on Sony C800G)
Old 28th December 2020
  #241
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Eigenwert's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I never seemed to be able to get the expected results from this microphone. Until I read that a c800g sounds best in omni. Tried it in omni and yesssss, this is exactly what I was looking for

I‘m quite surprised that it needs to be used in omni for „that“ sound.
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #242
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert ➡️
I never seemed to be able to get the expected results from this microphone. Until I read that a c800g sounds best in omni. Tried it in omni and yesssss, this is exactly what I was looking for

I‘m quite surprised that it needs to be used in omni for „that“ sound.
It smooths out the proximity effect build up.

This is the same case for the new U67 reissue.

My guess its a problem on a lot of the inspired/clone microphone designs around the K67 capsule. The proximity effect its just not as useful.
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #243
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
It smooths out the proximity effect build up.

This is the same case for the new U67 reissue.

My guess its a problem on a lot of the inspired/clone microphone designs around the K67 capsule. The proximity effect its just not as useful.
The original c800g is supposed to sound best in omni as well so it‘s not a thing of the clones I think.
Old 28th December 2020
  #244
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Omnipotent.
Chris
Old 30th December 2020 | Show parent
  #245
Here for the gear
I’m also using it in Omni mode. Sounds good!

Have had a Sony C800G before and they are in the same family but wouldn’t say it’s 1:1.

It’s missing a little little bit of that luxury high end and having more low end. And I would say it lacks that recognizable presence and “intimacy” that the Sony has. That it’s lacking that could actually be something good depending on what you’re looking for. I think it’s a more “forgiving” mic.

I’m interested in that capsule mod. Have a lot of you done that? A Luke audio capsule? Is that really going to change much closer to the Sony?
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #246
Gear Maniac
I record in cardio because I'm doing rap vocals, I'll try out the omni
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #247
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie ➡️
that's good for you and that price is really tempting.
But for 975euro I almost can buy a c100 and don't need a power suply. So with no extra power costs it will pay off at the end. I also like small things. I don't wanna wait, too.
The power supply gives you remote pattern control. Cool feature.
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #248
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➡️
The power supply gives you remote pattern control. Cool feature.
I ordered my c100 today from zen pro audio. I don't need that little extra of remote control. A power suply also can be noisy even with the orginal c800g.
Maybe in the future I'll give the aa cm800t a chance but for now I go with the c100.
Old 7th February 2021 | Show parent
  #249
Here for the gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
bought one n all i can say it's probably the best sounding mic i've owned so far. not exactly concerned if it's "identical" to the Sony since it's already sounding within that league regardless. Kudos to AA! i'm just glad that we have more modern mic options available today.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #250
Here for the gear
 
PlaneJames's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
capsule swap

I agree with the capsule swap, I bought a cm800t due to the hype. And after using it for some weeks I felt I was missing something. So after some research and pure LUCK lol I swapped the capsule. The cm800t ships with the ak89 capsule which is a 32mm k67 type capsule. I read that Dave also tried to use the 35mm ak67 capsule (which is aa's take on an original k67 capsule) and said that it was "too polite" so he used the smaller but brighter ak89. In my experience even with the smaller ak89 capsule, the mic still feels like it's missing some presence/intimacy, and it also has too much build up in the low end/low mids. and I'm pretty sure the Sony c800g uses a 34mm k67 type capsule which is a direct copy of the neumann. And after reading that, I kind of figured that AA used what they had available instead of sourcing a better capsule for the build, so I did a capsule swap with a 34mm Rk87 from a micparts.com s87 build that I wasn't using. And the mic definitely sounds much brighter, not harsh at all, just way more present in the highs. The low end also seems more natural too and not congested. For me that was the biggest problem with this mic, having to notch frequencies because the vocals have too much body. I will say that there are 'truer' 3rd party k67 type capsules available than the mic-parts one, which uses a 3 micron diaphragm vs the 6 micron used in the original neumann k67, and I may look into doing another swap in the future just for my own curiosity but for right now I am very satisfied.

In Dave's own words.

"The AK67 capsule that we use in our CM87 and CM67se is incredible rugged and reliable with the least amount of rise in the midrange but a 5db rise up at 12khz

We tried to build a C800g type microphone with the AK67 capsule but its just to damn polite.

I am playing around with a CM800T with our AK89 capsule which is very similar to a traditional K67/K89 capsule and you need to use de-emphasis with it.

If I only use half the de-emphasis of the U87 then it starts to sound close to what I "think" a C800g sounds like from samples I have heard.

The C800G uses a K67/87 type capsule but it has like a 2-3db rise in the 2-4KHz range and then about a 5db rise at 10khz.

However, I have never heard one in the shop or seen one in any of the studios I have visited.

They don't even have one at RAK in London which has a pretty enviable microphone collection.

I don't think they have one at Atlantico in Portugal where they have an unbelievable collection of C12's and ELA M251's. No one I know in Vancouver has one either."
Old 3 weeks ago
  #251
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It wasn't really a case of hype and I don't believe they never an original heard one when they were building it. I was told it was carefully designed. Mine sounded surprisingly close to the 2 C800G's I had and for an 800 bucks mic it was a no brainer if that's the clarity you needed for Hip Hop or R&B.

There are lots of bright mics flooding the market now but at the time it was a winner. I still think they provide decent mics at a very decent price with a great service.

The results spoke for themselves as people voted for it and bought it in droves. Now there's a mild backlash here and there but the shootouts were genuine. Mic was a big success.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #252
Here for the gear
 
PlaneJames's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Personally SPEAKING, I bought it without listening to it first, after reading good reviews so it was hype for me. Out of the box the mic sounds pretty damn good, albeit not quite a c800g, but for $800 I dont see a better choice than AA and I've purchased my share of mics to disappointment, this is not the case,and I will def. buy from AA again. As I don't doubt that the actual components used to build the mic were top notch. But in my opinion, they missed the mark on the capsule choice. I don't think it was a matter of design, rather than them using the capsules they had available to them, but that's neither here or there. And I'm not saying that the ak89 capsule is bad at all, it's actually really smooth. I installed it on on an old v67g with a caps mod and it sounds really good, however the v67g is now surprisingly dark due to the de-emphasis that a modded v67g offers. And those were Dave's own words, from a different forum (real gear online. com), I tried to to link it but gearslutz wont allow links from other forums. But if you want to read it on that site here's the thread, just paste it after the url. /thread/6591/wa-414?page=5

I will paste the full post though.

"Hi, Eric our rejection rates have declined since we started and we have less trouble with the AK12 that we had originally. We also believe we have resolved the cleaning issue with the AK47 as we haven't had any significant failures from the last shipment of capsules.

Back 6-7 years ago were experiencing some problems at one point with nearly a 25% failure rate of the AK12 capsules under test conditions. They would start to sputter make noise and sometime shut completely off, when the humidity got too high from close vocals.

The problem seemed to be with the plastic material that insulates the two brass back-plates from shorting to each other and allows you to edge feed the diaphragms.

This plastic material appeared to be too soft and seemed predisposed to "warping".

The next run of AK12 capsule came with a much harder and denser plastic material and our failure rate dropped to <10% overnight.


The AK47 like the original K47 capsule has a single back-plate with a random hole pattern on each side of the back-plate.

Small metal dusk particles were being left behind in the damping holes.

Shanghai Electronics has never made a K47 type capsule until about 7 years ago when I sent them a Neumann K47 to "clone". You can't get a U47 type sound without using a capsule with a K47 type back-plate and 6 micron skinned capsules.

With the individual back-plates of the AK12 and the AK67 capsule its easier to clean and remove dust particles left from the capsule milling process.

When you polarize up diaphragms any remaining metal particle are often pulled up against the diaphragm creating Miniature "pin pricks" in the mylar.

When you power the microphone down these microscopic dust particle fall back into the holes.

However, the capsule does not sound quite right with metal dust particle pulled up against the diaphragm. The more metal particle left behind the worse the capsule will sound.


To resolve this issue all the AK47 back-plates are held over an old speaker with a huge magnet and the speaker is excited with a tone that acts like an "ultra sonic cleaner" and the dust particles are shaken loose and are pulled toward the speakers magnet.

Then these K47 back-plates go to the capsule room for skinning. This was one of the issues we resolved on our last trip to Shanghai to visit the Factory.

So, every microphone with the original AK47 we had to power up for 5 minutes in FIG 8 and then look at the capsules diaphragm under the magnifying light.

This generally only shows up in FIG 8 when you have 60v on the back-plate and 120v on the rear diaphragm.


Our bench power supply is always left in Fig 8 as the first thing we do after inspecting the capsule is to listen to the front and back. If the front and back diaphragms do not sound similar the capsule is rejected.


One thing we don't seem to get which I see in a lot of old Neumann K47 and K67/87 capsule is the gold sputtering been worn away by explosive close damp vocal breath.

We build up the CM47ve and CM49 microphone in house from CM47 bodies. So, we can inspect the AK47 capsules and measure their capacitance before they are fitted.



So, roughly without counting up failed capsules, the last couple of years break down roughly as follows.

Latest AK12 capsules......<10%

Latest AK47 capsules...... <10%

AK67 capsule..... <5%


The AK67 capsule that we use in our CM87 and CM67se is incredible rugged and reliable with the least amount of rise in the midrange but a 5db rise up at 12khz

We tried to build a C800g type microphone with the AK67 capsule but its just to damn polite.

I am playing around with a CM800T with our AK89 capsule which is very similar to a traditional K67/K89 capsule and you need to use de-emphasis with it.

If I only use half the de-emphasis of the U87 then it starts to sound close to what I "think" a C800g sounds like from samples I have heard.

The C800G uses a K67/87 type capsule but it has like a 2-3db rise in the 2-4KHz range and then about a 5db rise at 10khz.

However, I have never heard one in the shop or seen one in any of the studios I have visited.

They don't even have one at RAK in London which has a pretty enviable microphone collection.

I don't think they have one at Atlantico in Portugal where they have an unbelievable collection of C12's and ELA M251's. No one I know in Vancouver has one either.


Once an AA microphone leaves here we get less than a 2% failure rate out in the client's studio. Its hard to know how much UPS has to contribute to this.

I had one CM87 come back last week with a "suspect" capsule that we replaced but I can't remember any others coming back in nearly 2 years.


We probably sell about 100-CM87 microphones a year and we use the same capsule in our CM67se.

We had a new CM48T come back that didn't sound right but we had used a slightly different capsule post and I discovered the screw was to long and not quite tightening all the way. So the capsule has swung nearly 45 degrees in the headgrill during shipping.

A shorter threaded screw resolved that problem.


One client in New Orleans saw his CM67se being thrown by UPS and it sailed 10' to 15' over his fence onto his porch with a thud.

He called me up and asked if he microphone should rattle. NO!!!!!

It made it thousands of mile to New Orlean in one piece and this was thwarted just 15' for the client's doorstep by UPS.

Those screws will not stand the force of the microphone flying 10-15' through the air and suddenly coming to a full stop on a concrete porch.

The screws that hold the capsule in place are < 2mm as that is all the meat there is on the back-plate to cut a thread.


Don't get me started with UPS!!!!!

UPS lost all our show material for the Nashville Summer Namm last year for about a week. It kept tracking to Louiseville and it was suppose to go to our Hotel in Nashville. We sent it 10 days ahead of the show and paid for 3 day delivery.


The MT8016 preamp that Malcolm Toft and I designed arrived at the Hotel from the UK. Advanced Audio was looking pretty bare on day one of the show and my wife and I were looking pretty dejected as Scotty and Mike were out tracking down our gear.

Chuck Ainlay came by and lifted our spirits by telling us our CM67se was used for vocals on both Hilary and Charles from Lady Antebellum album 747 which had two #1 Country hits.

I also got to meet another hero bass player, Chuck Rainey and watch him play just 50' from our booth and this lifted my spirits a bit more.

We managed to put something together at the booth as Bryce from Warm Audio lent us some cables and Michael Frasenelli who had just bought a CM67se from us amazingly went home and got his CM67se plus brought us two stands, two sets of headphones and some patch cables for the headphone mixer that I had brought in my luggage.

So, we had the MT8016, the CM67se and a CM48T plus a CM1084 that I had brought on day one of the show.

Scotty "the trouper" that he is, tracked our show stuff down to the UPS Warehouse in Nashville that looked like the end scene from Raiders of the Lost Arc.

Once he got permission to enter the warehouse he was able to find out stuff within a 20 minute jog around the warehouse.

Scotty got all the beer he could dring that night at the bar.


Yeah, I am always looking for a Dyna tube amp that "AS IS" with just a good output and power transformer. I got a Ampeg B25 for $100 "AS IS" not working.

The B25 is a just a bass head exactly like the B15N circuit.

I completely restored it with new tubes new filter caps and coupling capacitors. Its the perfect studio bass amp with a 4x10 cabinet with Celestion bass speakers.

Cheers, Dave"
Old 3 weeks ago
  #253
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It seems, what Dave meant was that he didn't use the Sony in his day as it didn't exist. Be assured thorough research was done though in the development of the CM800T.

Maybe there have been some issues due to the heavy demand on the company. I wouldn't use this as an excuse to write them off though, they do great budget mics used by many pros and are very receptive to communication.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #254
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlaneJames ➡️
Personally SPEAKING, I bought it without listening to it first, after reading good reviews so it was hype for me. Out of the box the mic sounds pretty damn good, albeit not quite a c800g, but for $800 I dont see a better choice than AA and I've purchased my share of mics to disappointment, this is not the case,and I will def. buy from AA again. As I don't doubt that the actual components used to build the mic were top notch. But in my opinion, they missed the mark on the capsule choice. I don't think it was a matter of design, rather than them using the capsules they had available to them, but that's neither here or there. And I'm not saying that the ak89 capsule is bad at all, it's actually really smooth. I installed it on on an old v67g with a caps mod and it sounds really good, however the v67g is now surprisingly dark due to the de-emphasis that a modded v67g offers. And those were Dave's own words, from a different forum (real gear online. com), I tried to to link it but gearslutz wont allow links from other forums. But if you want to read it on that site here's the thread, just paste it after the url. /thread/6591/wa-414?page=5

I will paste the full post though.

"Hi, Eric our rejection rates have declined since we started and we have less trouble with the AK12 that we had originally. We also believe we have resolved the cleaning issue with the AK47 as we haven't had any significant failures from the last shipment of capsules.

Back 6-7 years ago were experiencing some problems at one point with nearly a 25% failure rate of the AK12 capsules under test conditions. They would start to sputter make noise and sometime shut completely off, when the humidity got too high from close vocals.

The problem seemed to be with the plastic material that insulates the two brass back-plates from shorting to each other and allows you to edge feed the diaphragms.

This plastic material appeared to be too soft and seemed predisposed to "warping".

The next run of AK12 capsule came with a much harder and denser plastic material and our failure rate dropped to <10% overnight.


The AK47 like the original K47 capsule has a single back-plate with a random hole pattern on each side of the back-plate.

Small metal dusk particles were being left behind in the damping holes.

Shanghai Electronics has never made a K47 type capsule until about 7 years ago when I sent them a Neumann K47 to "clone". You can't get a U47 type sound without using a capsule with a K47 type back-plate and 6 micron skinned capsules.

With the individual back-plates of the AK12 and the AK67 capsule its easier to clean and remove dust particles left from the capsule milling process.

When you polarize up diaphragms any remaining metal particle are often pulled up against the diaphragm creating Miniature "pin pricks" in the mylar.

When you power the microphone down these microscopic dust particle fall back into the holes.

However, the capsule does not sound quite right with metal dust particle pulled up against the diaphragm. The more metal particle left behind the worse the capsule will sound.


To resolve this issue all the AK47 back-plates are held over an old speaker with a huge magnet and the speaker is excited with a tone that acts like an "ultra sonic cleaner" and the dust particles are shaken loose and are pulled toward the speakers magnet.

Then these K47 back-plates go to the capsule room for skinning. This was one of the issues we resolved on our last trip to Shanghai to visit the Factory.

So, every microphone with the original AK47 we had to power up for 5 minutes in FIG 8 and then look at the capsules diaphragm under the magnifying light.

This generally only shows up in FIG 8 when you have 60v on the back-plate and 120v on the rear diaphragm.


Our bench power supply is always left in Fig 8 as the first thing we do after inspecting the capsule is to listen to the front and back. If the front and back diaphragms do not sound similar the capsule is rejected.


One thing we don't seem to get which I see in a lot of old Neumann K47 and K67/87 capsule is the gold sputtering been worn away by explosive close damp vocal breath.

We build up the CM47ve and CM49 microphone in house from CM47 bodies. So, we can inspect the AK47 capsules and measure their capacitance before they are fitted.



So, roughly without counting up failed capsules, the last couple of years break down roughly as follows.

Latest AK12 capsules......<10%

Latest AK47 capsules...... <10%

AK67 capsule..... <5%


The AK67 capsule that we use in our CM87 and CM67se is incredible rugged and reliable with the least amount of rise in the midrange but a 5db rise up at 12khz

We tried to build a C800g type microphone with the AK67 capsule but its just to damn polite.

I am playing around with a CM800T with our AK89 capsule which is very similar to a traditional K67/K89 capsule and you need to use de-emphasis with it.

If I only use half the de-emphasis of the U87 then it starts to sound close to what I "think" a C800g sounds like from samples I have heard.

The C800G uses a K67/87 type capsule but it has like a 2-3db rise in the 2-4KHz range and then about a 5db rise at 10khz.

However, I have never heard one in the shop or seen one in any of the studios I have visited.

They don't even have one at RAK in London which has a pretty enviable microphone collection.

I don't think they have one at Atlantico in Portugal where they have an unbelievable collection of C12's and ELA M251's. No one I know in Vancouver has one either.


Once an AA microphone leaves here we get less than a 2% failure rate out in the client's studio. Its hard to know how much UPS has to contribute to this.

I had one CM87 come back last week with a "suspect" capsule that we replaced but I can't remember any others coming back in nearly 2 years.


We probably sell about 100-CM87 microphones a year and we use the same capsule in our CM67se.

We had a new CM48T come back that didn't sound right but we had used a slightly different capsule post and I discovered the screw was to long and not quite tightening all the way. So the capsule has swung nearly 45 degrees in the headgrill during shipping.

A shorter threaded screw resolved that problem.


One client in New Orleans saw his CM67se being thrown by UPS and it sailed 10' to 15' over his fence onto his porch with a thud.

He called me up and asked if he microphone should rattle. NO!!!!!

It made it thousands of mile to New Orlean in one piece and this was thwarted just 15' for the client's doorstep by UPS.

Those screws will not stand the force of the microphone flying 10-15' through the air and suddenly coming to a full stop on a concrete porch.

The screws that hold the capsule in place are < 2mm as that is all the meat there is on the back-plate to cut a thread.


Don't get me started with UPS!!!!!

UPS lost all our show material for the Nashville Summer Namm last year for about a week. It kept tracking to Louiseville and it was suppose to go to our Hotel in Nashville. We sent it 10 days ahead of the show and paid for 3 day delivery.


The MT8016 preamp that Malcolm Toft and I designed arrived at the Hotel from the UK. Advanced Audio was looking pretty bare on day one of the show and my wife and I were looking pretty dejected as Scotty and Mike were out tracking down our gear.

Chuck Ainlay came by and lifted our spirits by telling us our CM67se was used for vocals on both Hilary and Charles from Lady Antebellum album 747 which had two #1 Country hits.

I also got to meet another hero bass player, Chuck Rainey and watch him play just 50' from our booth and this lifted my spirits a bit more.

We managed to put something together at the booth as Bryce from Warm Audio lent us some cables and Michael Frasenelli who had just bought a CM67se from us amazingly went home and got his CM67se plus brought us two stands, two sets of headphones and some patch cables for the headphone mixer that I had brought in my luggage.

So, we had the MT8016, the CM67se and a CM48T plus a CM1084 that I had brought on day one of the show.

Scotty "the trouper" that he is, tracked our show stuff down to the UPS Warehouse in Nashville that looked like the end scene from Raiders of the Lost Arc.

Once he got permission to enter the warehouse he was able to find out stuff within a 20 minute jog around the warehouse.

Scotty got all the beer he could dring that night at the bar.


Yeah, I am always looking for a Dyna tube amp that "AS IS" with just a good output and power transformer. I got a Ampeg B25 for $100 "AS IS" not working.

The B25 is a just a bass head exactly like the B15N circuit.

I completely restored it with new tubes new filter caps and coupling capacitors. Its the perfect studio bass amp with a 4x10 cabinet with Celestion bass speakers.

Cheers, Dave"
I had the cm800t and it was decent, i have the ga8000g and it smokes the cm800t, i also have the eden and it actually smoke that mic also

the ga has a nice price tag though but if you could afford it, its sounds better to my ears than the cm800t
Old 9 hours ago | Show parent
  #256
Here for the gear
 
Here are my old before and after samples of the capsule swap on my CM800T.

I recorded a stock Apex 460 as well for comparison.

All three samples were recorded in omni mode into an Apogee Duet with its built in preamp. No eq or compression, just a bit of gain... same amount on all three.

The Apex is bright and sibilant with a higher self noise.
The AA has a touch more upper mid and less air, not sibilant
The LA-6G brings in that missing air without sibilance and sounds more forward

I can't stress the importance of having a pristine vocal room. These samples were not from my studio but were recorded at home where my room is semi treated and its apparent. To get the $15000 mic sound from an $800 mic, the room is more important than the outboard gear.
Attached Files

460.wav (4.99 MB, 84 views)

aa .wav (4.83 MB, 74 views)

la.wav (4.48 MB, 80 views)

Old 8 hours ago
  #257
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
where my room is semi treated and its apparent. To get the $15000 mic sound from an $800 mic, the room is more important than the outboard gear.
Amen to that.

Cheers
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