The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Tracking drums - what's the third flavor for my setup? (API, Daking, Sebatron, RME)
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #91
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_fowler ➡️
Anyone compared the Sebatron vmp-4000e with the Sebatron VMPQuadplus ? samples ?

They are both four channel tube pres and I'm wondering how they differ to
each other sonically and in features.
Oh, hadn't seen there's a new one released. From a look at it, it seems it's all about the controls. Sebatron say circuit is almost identical and "in most recording contexts the differences may be barely perceivable."

From the pics it seems you now have more flexible access to the gain staging, but lose a setting on the hi and low EQ each.
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_fowler ➡️
Anyone compared the Sebatron vmp-4000e with the Sebatron VMPQuadplus ? samples ?

They are both four channel tube pres and I'm wondering how they differ to
each other sonically and in features.
From the Sebatron website :

" the majority of the circuit being almost identical. The differences account for a slightly broader frequency response, a few db of extra gain and a lower reaching bottom but in most recording contexts the differences may be barely perceivable"

"The omission of the 'deep' circuitry accounts for the extra db in gain and allows for the inclusion of the pad/gain control to further push the limits and fine tune valve colouration. This adjusts the level in between the two stages of the triode/valve leaving the normal/+12db toggle to adjust the degree of negative feedback around the first stage similar to the 4000e toggle.

This allows for a very wide gain range and means the VMPQuadPlus can handle everything from hot Condensers to lightweight Ribbon signals without the use of external pads or lifters."

Basically almost same sound, but a slightly broader frequency response, an added +10 dB of gain (+70dB max instead of +60dB) and continuous padding instead of fix settings (-30dB, -15dB, and 0dB with the 4000e) and no more deep switch.

No major differences, but some pretty cool additions to an already wonderful/versatile quad valve mic pre.
Old 11th February 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Basically almost same sound, but a slightly broader frequency response, an added +10 dB of gain (+70dB max instead of +60dB) and continuous padding instead of fix settings (-30dB, -15dB, and 0dB with the 4000e) and no more deep switch.

No major differences, but some pretty cool additions to an already wonderful/versatile quad valve mic pre.

Thank you. Sounds like the VMPQuadplus is a little more flexible in the sense that it has a gain switch and variable padding.
I'm keen to hear any drum samples if there are any around.
Old 11th February 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_fowler ➡️
Thank you. Sounds like the VMPQuadplus is a little more flexible in the sense that it has a gain switch and variable padding.
I'm keen to hear any drum samples if there are any around.
I only own the VMP4000e which I love on drums (and vocals...and guitars..and brass etc)

I did not come across drum samples recorded with the Quad plus on the net, but it will sound very close to the samples published on youtube by Dylan Wissing (VMP4000e) two of them are posted at the beginning of this thread.

He included comparisons with API pres, Daking..etc.
Also lots of videos/tests using the different pad settings.
It's all very well done, youtube sound quality, not wav but still very good.

The difference with the Quad Plus is the ability to get more color variation than the 0dB -15, -30 dB settings with the 4000e.
It should sound at least as good!
Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Addict
 
flanagan's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
I'm keen to hear any drum samples if there are any around.

There you go :


Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanagan ➡️
There you go :


Cool, thanx. Sounds very familiar from having the vmp4000e. But yes, the new gain structuring concept seems a little more flexible. However, I prefer having the threeway EQ option of the 4000e.
Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanagan ➡️
There you go :


Would love to hear the wav files..
On take 3 you can hear a lot of tube compression while still retaining a lot of detail through the OHs. Pretty cool!
Old 12th February 2020
  #98
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Dylan Wissing has a great drum video with the sebatron vs RME, API, Daking, it's cool if you can find it
Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Dylan Wissing has a great drum video with the sebatron vs RME, API, Daking, it's cool if you can find it
Well, he actually started this thread posting two of these videos ... so we're going circles
Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer ➡️
Well, he actually started this thread posting two of these videos ... so we're going circles
LOL. thanks for pointing that out. Kind of funny.
Old 12th February 2020 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
To be honest any of these pres would work great for drums.
I do find the Sebatron more versatile, and a great bang for the buck.
The two different sets of line outs end up being super handy for monitoring or live recording.
As another option, the Vintech quad pre is nice but it's twice the price.
API went crazy with their pricing in the last few years, CAPI is really great and much cheaper (DIY)
@ david_fowler I wouldn't hesitate about the Sebatron it's a great piece, very well built. I think you'd be happy wether you go for a 4000e second hand (they seem harder to find) or a new Quad Plus. Hard to beat at that price
Old 15th February 2020 | Show parent
  #102
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks to all . I've decided to go with the sebatron vmpquadplus.
I have a friend who raves about his 400e but I thought Id go one step further and get the quad !
Old 15th February 2020 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_fowler ➡️
Thanks to all . I've decided to go with the sebatron vmpquadplus.
I have a friend who raves about his 400e but I thought Id go one step further and get the quad !

I think you'll be happy with it, it sounds great on so many things, not just drums.
The range of colors you can get from the 4000e is impressive and hopefully even more with this one.
Old 2nd March 2020 | Show parent
  #104
Gear Addict
 
dylanwissing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We suddenly realized that this thread is now 2 1/2 years old, and we've never actually presented the results of our quest! Here's where we've ended up, after much additional research and many more shootouts:



This combination has given us a wide range of mic preamp colors (or non-colors, as determined by the needs of the track). We cover a wide range of sounds over here, and I feel confident that we can get everything we need from these preamps.

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have, and of course I always want to hear what gear works best for drum recording in your room!

Last edited by dylanwissing; 2nd March 2020 at 07:31 PM..
Old 3rd March 2020
  #105
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Elegant simplicity, I love it! "Now, we just focus on recording drums." That's my favorite part.
Old 3rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #106
Gear Addict
 
dylanwissing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
Elegant simplicity, I love it! "Now, we just focus on recording drums." That's my favorite part.
Mine too! It's been fun over the years trying a bunch of stuff out (I can't even remember how many preamps we've gone through at this point). But it's really nice to have a rig that JUST WORKS. Same with mics and drums. It's inevitable that things will change out over the years, but this is a nice place to be.

I mean, unless we bring in an orchestra to track in my 20x20' room. But until then...
Old 3rd March 2020 | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Great stuff, Dylan. Sure it sounds phenomenal!
Old 25th April 2020
  #108
Lives for gear
 
This is awesome. I listened to your original shoot-out when I was shopping for pres. Extremely informative. Like many here, I wasn't thrilled with the API sound. Also like many here, I was really impressed with the Sebatrons, especially for the price! I ended up with 8 channels of Daking, partially because I want to be able to take them in a mobile rack for remote recording, and they take up less rack space, put off less heat, and would generally just be a bit more robust being solid-state vs tube. But man, someday I will have those Sebatrons.

Based on how you have them racked now, are you not worried at all about heat? Do the Sebatrons give off a lot of heat? I see different philosophies around here on whether to leave rack space between hotter units or not.

Thanks again - great videos.
Old 25th April 2020 | Show parent
  #109
Gear Addict
 
dylanwissing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
Based on how you have them racked now, are you not worried at all about heat? Do the Sebatrons give off a lot of heat? I see different philosophies around here on whether to leave rack space between hotter units or not.
Nice! I'm glad both videos were helpful, and I am really happy with the arrangement of preamps we have over here - they all sound great, none of them broke the bank, and they all have their own subtle character that's a lot of fun to play with.

In terms of the Sebatrons and heat, honestly I've never had the slightest issue with them over the years. I've also never noticed them running especially hot. Basically, I've never had any problem with them at all over the years.

As you mentioned, I would probably do what you're doing with the two Daking units if I were taking the preamps out for remote sessions (or get one of RME's new 8-channel preamp units to get it down to one space). But my preamps never leave that spot so it's not an issue on this end.

What kind of things are you recording?

Last edited by dylanwissing; 25th April 2020 at 03:37 AM.. Reason: Fixed typos
Old 25th April 2020 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanwissing ➡️
What kind of things are you recording?
Yeah that's awesome - really glad it's working out for you!

Mostly live show recording (I'm a live sound engineer by trade, for the most part), so lots of indie rock and americana type stuff. But I'm building this rig to function as a home-studio hub that can also walk out the door at a moment's notice for projects and location work. The Dakings have proven to be very versatile. I basically wanted to get some nice preamps that could work on everything and never think about it again. So far so good.

Will want to add another 8 channels at some point for full band tracking - not sure if I can afford more Daking right away as I'd need to run them through ADAT or get another interface - so looking at other 8 channel ADAT units at the moment.

That RME unit is worth a look for sure.
Old 25th April 2020 | Show parent
  #111
Gear Addict
 
dylanwissing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
The Dakings have proven to be very versatile. I basically wanted to get some nice preamps that could work on everything and never think about it again. So far so good.

... That RME unit is worth a look for sure.
Honestly, that's one of the best things about settling on a rig that JUST WORKS - the part of my brain that's obsessing about "maybe my preamp setup could be better!" just shuts up and goes away. I have great preamps from Daking, Sebatron, RME and SSL, that all work together nicely. I can now go about my business of recording music.

Those RME digital preamps are definitely worth a look! I've been using their interfaces for well over a decade, after shootouts with some other comparable stuff, and have always found that the preamps totally hold their own against my other stand-alone analog units. Plus, they are absolutely rock-solid in terms of reliability and software.

Post some mixes that you're getting with the rig, I'd love to hear them!
Old 26th April 2020
  #112
Lives for gear
 
Yeah - not having to think about pres is great.

Hopefully some of the shows I recorded will get released by the artists when I'm done. However, all of that stuff was recorded on an M32 at a club I work at. For what it's worth, I'm really digging those pres as well. Haven't had a chance to do much with the Daking rig yet unfortunately, although I might have one or two tracks of just a solo artist get "released" at some point. Got my second MPIV recently, and, as you know, current events have slowed things down quite a bit. Based on the little solo stuff I recorded pre-pandemic and my own tinkering at home, I'm pretty confident the pres will serve me well on just about anything.

Now having a nice room like yours someday... THAT is truly something to aspire to...
Old 18th May 2020 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanwissing ➡️

Post some mixes that you're getting with the rig, I'd love to hear them!
Okay - finally something I can post. Here's something I tracked with the MPIV. Not drums though, just solo acoustic, vocals with some electric guitar overdubs.

MIX FEEDBACK - Acoustic, Vocals, Electric
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #114
Gear Nut
 
Dennis4's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
On take 3 you can hear a lot of tube compression while still retaining a lot of detail through the OHs. Pretty cool!
That's what I like about that sebatron preamp sound.It's a thick detailed sound.
I'm thinking a set of these pres would save me a lot of time mixing and trying to get my drum sounds to sit right with plugs and bandaides.
Anyone else shove mixes or sub-mixes through their seb?
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #115
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis4 ➡️
That's what I like about that sebatron preamp sound.It's a thick detailed sound.
I'm thinking a set of these pres would save me a lot of time mixing and trying to get my drum sounds to sit right with plugs and bandaides.
Anyone else shove mixes or sub-mixes through their seb?
Always have two channels setup as a stereo parallel for mixing. Some channels get send to it, sometimes all.
Old 5th November 2020 | Show parent
  #116
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
That's what I like about that sebatron preamp sound.It's a thick detailed sound.
I'm thinking a set of these pres would save me a lot of time mixing and trying to get my drum sounds to sit right with plugs and bandaides.
Anyone else shove mixes or sub-mixes through their seb?
I've tried both xlr on back and direct input on front. The best results I get so far are through the direct input on the front.

With the VMPQuadplus gain control you can fine tune the color so that it can be faintly mild and suit the material. I find if I churn in a bit of color on a drum mix for example the difference to the overall mix is huge. It sounds as though the drum mix has a bit of glue holding it together.
If I need to gel or color things a bit more I send bass and drums as a sub mix. The two together work well with a tad of color overall.

Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #117
Gear Nut
 
Dennis4's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Has anyone tried linking two channels together for more distortion ?
I've heard this is easy to do with the seb . Out of one channel and into the other channel through the direct input ?
I was told this would be good for direct bass.
I'm curious to hear what a full mix would sound like with some distortion over the top.
Then blend the distortion in with the dry original ITB.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #118
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis4 ➡️
Has anyone tried linking two channels together for more distortion ?
I've heard this is easy to do with the seb . Out of one channel and into the other channel through the direct input ?
I was told this would be good for direct bass.
I'm curious to hear what a full mix would sound like with some distortion over the top.
Then blend the distortion in with the dry original ITB.
I'm using the Seba on every mix. Two channels are parallels for whatever, one for vocals with the air band. I'm not mixing super hot and if at all, I needed less distortion, not more.
If you go line in and feed it with a whole mix, you should crunch even on -25db setting. Crush on -15, all hell on 0.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #119
Gear Nut
 
Dennis4's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I read somewhere you can connect two channels together for more gain and distortion.
How would you do this ? Out the back and through the input on the front panel ?
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #120
Gear Addict
 
ejbragg's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis4 ➡️
I read somewhere you can connect two channels together for more gain and distortion.
How would you do this ? Out the back and through the input on the front panel ?
Yes. Just try whatever configurations that come to your mind. You’ll never know until you try. Just don’t use 48v phantom on any other channel except to power a condenser mic that needs it to work!
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 364 views: 58296
Avatar for GYang
GYang 24th October 2014
replies: 5775 views: 1858967
Avatar for crestifer
crestifer 1 day ago
replies: 24 views: 9568
Avatar for amiotcqss
amiotcqss 15th November 2013
replies: 11 views: 2496
Avatar for david_fowler
david_fowler 6th October 2020
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump