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New Warm Audio C414 Clone
Old 22nd August 2017
  #331
Gear Head
 
josephson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just a couple of comments from the peanut gallery here. So far, we have not seen any high-volume (read: inexpensive) makers of the Siemens/AKG/CK12 type capsule. It's hard to make, and even harder to make consistently. There are many "brass ring" capsules without a center-attach point that look similar from the outside -- people assume they are similar internally, but they aren't. Finally, there were at least five distinct variants of the original before AKG gave up on it, and countless variations of the production techniques needed to make it in volume.
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #332
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yup.
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #333
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It's a CEK12 capsule. Different hole pattern, still all brass and achieves the same frequency response.

Warm Audio calls it "CK12 style" in their marketing. I don't know that that's unfair.

This mic is not gonna be for the purist. The purists can build or have built their own clones with true replica CK12 capsules. Hell, just scroll back a few pages/posts and you'll find some options, since competitors seem to like to populate Warm Audio threads for some reason.

If you're not trying to go the exact replica route but just want the sonics, this mic could be a good option. I haven't heard it so don't have much opinion on it yet but the components are high quality and Warm has a good track record in my book.
Old 22nd August 2017 | Show parent
  #334
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yup.
Old 24th August 2017 | Show parent
  #335
Lives for gear
 
Gie-Sound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragan ➡️
If you mean your EB is softer than the TLII or XLII, it definitely should be. Those are somewhat brittle sounding iterations. The poster you were quoting was comparing to the b-ULS, which is the darkest, meatiest 414 variant. Your EB should definitely be airier than a b-ULS, though that airy top (if it's like the ones I've heard) is lovely and flattering and not brittle or bitey.
Yes; that's what I ment
Old 24th August 2017 | Show parent
  #336
Lives for gear
 
Gie-Sound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT ➡️
There are over 10 models of the AKG C414, with all sorts of voicing changes, with transformers and without. It survived the switch over to digital medium, and AKG made changes to lower the noise floor.

After testing the WA-14, I can say it is a good sounding mic. I don't know what a original brass capsule C414 sounds like (I'm looking for one for when I get a Warm back), but on lower-registered female BV voice it sounded superb. A soft topend is a great description - see above. It doesn't stick out but smoothly integrates into the whole sound. Her warm up gave a nice, breathy redention of "Somewhere over the rainbow" as I was fooling with setting on the RND channel strip. kinda Marylinn Monroe sings happy BD. And the bass seems to go on forever, which I found ... interesting, considering how all the talk was about the EB's top end. The bass was thick and warm, and still soft, natural, like the highend was. Prehaps not as granular as some more upscale condensers, but what is there is very nice. A guitarist said it reminded him of a 57 on the surface, but one that you could "hear into" after recording him. More grandular than a dynamic, and not as rounded off as a ribbon.

For $500 it is a killer vintage sound (ah, vintage - that ought to bring out the crowds). I need to do more listening, but my initial impressions is that it is a mic I want to work with some more.
I have the same experience with my WA-14
I bought it primarily as an acoustic guitar mic, but since it won a couple of shootouts on vocals I have also used it there. So for me; money well spend. Very happy to add this mic to my locker.
Old 29th August 2017 | Show parent
  #337
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I put the warm up against 2 newer 414s today, the XLS
And the XL II. I feel it smoked them both in every way.
The AKGs seemed muddy and harsh by comparison, the warm was much more mix ready to my ears.
Old 31st August 2017 | Show parent
  #338
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImJohn ➡️
Hi Chad!

Will a WA-14 sound any good through a modified PreSonus M80?
oh man, that's a blast from the past... wow, just saw that. haha now that's synergy, combining stuff I've worked on from 2 former companies together. I still remember your M80 comparison website.

Just as a public notice, I moved back to my hometown of Baton Rouge to begin restoring my house that was severely damaged in last year's floods, earlier this year. No longer with Warm or PreSonus; but both companies are still going strong. I'll be getting into some things on my own once the home reconstruction project is complete.

-Chad Kelly
Old 31st August 2017
  #339
JAT
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Chad, hope the latest hurricane doesn't set you back. Great to hear from you.
Old 31st August 2017 | Show parent
  #340
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT ➡️
Chad, hope the latest hurricane doesn't set you back. Great to hear from you.
thank you, I am definitely keeping an eye on the gulf. :( It's a sobering fact that what Houston is going through right now could have just as easily come straight here had the winds been just a little more easterly. It's equally tragic regardless of where it hits but just the fact that myself and my family members and friends are all STILL rebuilding their homes from last year, and that this might happen again already, is just an awful feeling.
Old 19th September 2017
  #341
Here for the gear
 
I purchased one recently, having used C414s years ago. I remembered it as a great mic. I put the WA14 through an ISA one, and it sounds fantastic. My friend has a studio with all the bells and whistles... API console bunches of 500 series stuff, tons of outboard gear and 2 U67s @ 16,000 a piece and multiple 10s of thousand in mics alone.
I don't have such deep pockets, I am super impressed with the sound quality and build. I was (momentarily) put off with the shock mount, being made of plastic and all, but it is actually well designed and executed. Not trying to sell this to the purists but have to say, this is an awesome little tool.
Old 28th September 2017
  #342
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I love Warm Audio (have a tb12, probably a wa76 next) but I’d love to see them dive into an original design after all this profit generated from clones. They clearly know what they’re doing. Perhaps a versatile channel strip or something. Since project studios are a solid majority of their market..you’d think a 2 or 3u channel strip with a comp and eq that could compete with offerings more expensive would be a good seller. I don’t think they have to exclusively rely on clones anymore do they? They’ve built a pretty good rep...would love to see what they could do with an original product.
Old 24th November 2017
  #343
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Anyone compared the Warm Audio WA-14 to the AKG C414 XLII as drums overheads? I want to upgrade my overheads mics, and I narrowed to these two options.
Old 24th November 2017
  #344
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
most people complaining about clones this and that, buy emulations software of vintage gear. smh. I have no stock invested in none of these original companies, joe blow wants to make a clone and sell it to me dirt cheap i'll buy and move on with my life. I buy generic shells and cheese, does it taste exactly like velveta? no..do i care they copied velveta double no. once i invest in stock in these companies i'll care. as of now i need tools as cheap as possible with great quality, so i can make money and feed my family. chuch
Old 24th November 2017 | Show parent
  #345
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon ➡️
I buy generic shells and cheese, does it taste exactly like velveta? no..do i care they copied velveta double no. ... as of now i need tools as cheap as possible with great quality, so i can make money and feed my family. chuch
generic macaroni will probably provide your family with enough nutrition to sustain them, whereas if you spent too much money on the fancy stuff - it might taste better but they might not get enough calories to live on.

But some of us are running a studio more on a "restaurant" model. Where taste does matter. People do not come to a restaurant to keep themselves from starving. Otherwise why not stay home and eat store-brand pasta? They come to a restaurant for a meal that tastes delicious. Shoprite Mac and Cheese served to my customers will put me out of business.... and then my family WILL starve.


Quote:
does it taste exactly like velveta? no..do i care they copied velveta
you do realize that Velveeta, the product you are holding up as the paragon of "taste" is itself a "clone"! Velveeta is a clone of something called "cheese".

I am told it's delicious.
Old 24th November 2017
  #346
JAT
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
There is a WA-14 review in the latest Tape Op.
Old 25th November 2017 | Show parent
  #347
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
generic macaroni will probably provide your family with enough nutrition to sustain them, whereas if you spent too much money on the fancy stuff - it might taste better but they might not get enough calories to live on.

But some of us are running a studio more on a "restaurant" model. Where taste does matter. People do not come to a restaurant to keep themselves from starving. Otherwise why not stay home and eat store-brand pasta? They come to a restaurant for a meal that tastes delicious. Shoprite Mac and Cheese served to my customers will put me out of business.... and then my family WILL starve.




you do realize that Velveeta, the product you are holding up as the paragon of "taste" is itself a "clone"! Velveeta is a clone of something called "cheese".

I am told it's delicious.
true enough however, ,most people go to velveeta and home made mac and cheese but most clients will be hard pressed to know the difference between a expensive mic and good quality clone. my whole point isnt on quality but the moral aspect of cloning itself. i dont own stock in these companies so i give a ****. however, if the quality is not up to par i simply don't buy it. The more people make good clones the better for me. i love options and i love saving money.
Old 25th November 2017 | Show parent
  #348
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon ➡️
true enough however, ,most people go to velveeta and home made mac and cheese but most clients will be hard pressed to know the difference between a expensive mic and good quality clone.
depends on the clients.

I think most clients can tell the difference between a really good recording and an exquisite recording, even if they may not be able to say why or attribute it to a particular piece of gear.

And of course there are probably people who, if you switched out their Velveeta with a really good Vermont Cheddar, would complain that it tastes 'funny'.


Quote:
my whole point isnt on quality but the moral aspect of cloning itself.
I have no problem with the 'morality' of making and selling these things. No problem buying one if it suits my needs. Though some aspects of the marketing of them gives me pause.
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #349
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz ➡️
I love my brass 414eb and wish I could afford another.. . Sounds very different from the pair of modern 414's I have.

I'd love to get one of these WA mics to shoot out next to my old mic. I doubt they'd be identical, but if it's even close then it's a steal for the price.
Please do that shootout. Part of the issue here is that precious few people own an original brass 414 EB and while I can understand the argument of 'The Warm sounds better than a current 414' IMO it's only fair to compare apple to apples.

Since you say 'I love my brass 414EB' I would guess that your expectations are high. I would assume that 'The Warm is at least as good as a modern 414 but less expensive' would not satisfy you. So again, please make that shootout happen.
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #350
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➡️
Please do that shootout. Part of the issue here is that precious few people own an original brass 414 EB and while I can understand the argument of 'The Warm sounds better than a current 414' IMO it's only fair to compare apple to apples.

Since you say 'I love my brass 414EB' I would guess that your expectations are high. I would assume that 'The Warm is at least as good as a modern 414 but less expensive' would not satisfy you. So again, please make that shootout happen.
I DID do the shootout, and I thought I'd already posted my feelings but you just reminded me that the post didn't upload for some reason (dodgy WiFi) and I was too lazy to retype the whole dang thing!

Basically, your presumption is correct -- I thought it was a "good mic for the money" and very comparable to the other modern 414's that I own. But it was really not close enough to the brass 414EB to make it a potential partner in a stereo pair. It's hard to quantify exactly what was different, but EQ analysis showed a more extended bottom on my 414EB (I suspect there's a built in HP filter on the Warm Audio mic), and the top end just sounded 'different'. My brass 414 has a top end that is present, but very gentle and never harsh or peaky, which is one of the reasons it seems to win alot of shootouts on acoustic guitars, percussion, and piano. The WA414 sounded more like the modern 414's -- I wouldn't call it 'bright', but it was a little 'harder' sounding up top and just not the same.

If I was in the market for another mid-level condenser, the WA414 would be a prime candidate. Great value and a dependable, quality sound. But when A/B'd against the classic brass 414eb, it's still pretty easy to hear the differences.

And this partly explains why I ended up with a pair of Advanced Audio '87's. They sounded gorgeous on my piano, and they had a mojo all their own that wasn't replicated by anything else in my mic locker. Price was damn persuasive too. :-)
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #351
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz ➡️
I DID do the shootout, and I thought I'd already posted my feelings but you just reminded me that the post didn't upload for some reason (dodgy WiFi) and I was too lazy to retype the whole dang thing!

Basically, your presumption is correct -- I thought it was a "good mic for the money" and very comparable to the other modern 414's that I own. But it was really not close enough to the brass 414EB to make it a potential partner in a stereo pair. It's hard to quantify exactly what was different, but EQ analysis showed a more extended bottom on my 414EB (I suspect there's a built in HP filter on the Warm Audio mic), and the top end just sounded 'different'. My brass 414 has a top end that is present, but very gentle and never harsh or peaky, which is one of the reasons it seems to win alot of shootouts on acoustic guitars, percussion, and piano. The WA414 sounded more like the modern 414's -- I wouldn't call it 'bright', but it was a little 'harder' sounding up top and just not the same.

If I was in the market for another mid-level condenser, the WA414 would be a prime candidate. Great value and a dependable, quality sound. But when A/B'd against the classic brass 414eb, it's still pretty easy to hear the differences.

And this partly explains why I ended up with a pair of Advanced Audio '87's. They sounded gorgeous on my piano, and they had a mojo all their own that wasn't replicated by anything else in my mic locker. Price was damn persuasive too. :-)
Thanks! This is really helpful.
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #352
Gear Head
 
koontzness's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafMon ➡️
Anyone compared the Warm Audio WA-14 to the AKG C414 XLII as drums overheads? I want to upgrade my overheads mics, and I narrowed to these two options.
I'd look towards the XLS vs. the XLII if drum OH's are your main application...the XLII can be a bit brittle on cymbals, in particular. I was in your conundrum maybe a year ago (XLS vs. XLII) and went with the XLS pair.

Best of luck and have tons of fun with whatever you get, Mate!
Old 13th December 2017
  #353
Lives for gear
 
standup's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just put a WA14 on drum overhead duty this week in my basement home studio. I had been using a BLUE Dragonfly Deluxe (theoretically the same capsule as the Kiwi) for a couple of years. In my room, with lots of fiberglass and rockwool treatment, the WA14 is smoother and is going to stay on drum overheads. The Dragonfly accentuated the high hat in an ugly way, a little too crispy, and the WA14 does not do that (in my room).

So the Dragonfly will move to vocal and acoustic guitar duties now. The WA14 sounds good in this application.

Does it sound like a 414 EB? Dunno. I was in studios that had EB's 20+ years ago and have no idea if this is the same sound or not.
Old 30th March 2018 | Show parent
  #354
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
Why would you? A master engraver ain't gonna counterfeit singles and fives.
i wouldn't rush to judgement. i just purchased 2 "SM57s"—total counterfeits. i should take some pics of the disassembled one for everyone. i notified the ebay seller, was totally refunded, and told not to bother returning them. In that ad for 2 mics, as well as another pair they had up for auction, it wasn't a "Buy it now" it was all bids, and mentioned they were purchased at an estate sale.

After discovering their fakeitude, i took them at their word, as if they had been ripped off and, in fact, they did request 2 links i discovered that demonstrated why these were phony, and informed them they should pull the other 2 which were about to conclude their auction within an hour, and they did.

i would like to think the seller was caught unawares of these facts, though it is a shame if they got ripped off...hope they didn't pay a lot...i am wondering if they can be salvaged for some type of use, or just ****e can them? BTW, they're not constructed with the PYLE SM57 clone, PDMIC78...i purchased a couple of those some time ago, and re-soldered to make them balanced...for use as live drum mics, not recording, and they do that fine. These fakes would take a bit of work to make into a useful mic.

So yeah...they do counterfeit nickels. Dunno why, though the guts show there is little cost involved. Perhaps they figure that if they look close enough, few may ever notice....The grille head not spinning was clue #1 . i suppose they have little cost in them, and it turns a decent profit, especially in numbers. They also would be simpler to fake than many high end condensers or ribbons...i dunno, but google it and check it out. i was shocked myself.

Be Careful out there,

—trout
Old 28th January 2019
  #355
Here for the gear
 
The 414eb was used by Freddy Mercury on Queen's A Night at the Opera [btw]. I remember (from years ago) singing into one in Austin Tex. and all these years later, recall how great they sounded. I have assembled a nice little project studio, I also considered what I would need rather than pipe dreams, so I got some nicer things like a Focusrite Clarett 8 preX and a Clarett OctoPre, my other Pre selections a an ISA one, a UA 710 Twinfinity, a WA 73-eq. Yamaha HS8s monitors. I use PT12 and have a small collection of mics Shure 58s, 57s, A Beta-52and a Beta 87A. I Also have a few different Blue mics, BabyBottle, Bluebird, Spark, two side dress JZ dynamics [that sound great btw] a Blue Reactor and some small diaphragm humming birds. One Cascade FatHead [ribbon] and a couple Warms the WA47jr and the one that I really was impressed with the WA-14 I obviously didn't have the $3200+ for the C414-EB but for my small setup, things are sounding good. It is a little bright and crystal clear and a lot of body I highly recommend it, a lot of bang for the buck and not a compromise either. I recorded a few small projects and happen to play with a retired engineer (Joe Ferla) that has 650+ records to his credit and 6 or so Grammys from his 40+years doing it in NYC. He listened to what I was doing and said it sound great so... If you have deep pockets go ahead and spend away, I am sure you will be pleased. If you are like me where life may have kicked your ass a few different ways, you can rise above and have a very excellent setup for less, I used to sit in front of a console that was Christopher Cross' [a 32x8 ch Soundcraft into and Ampex one inch with all the Yamaha Rev 7s and SPX 90s and eventides. Would I prefer that? Yes, But now I do it inside the box, I will eventually get a little Avid Arist Mix for more hands on. but for now all is good and I Really like that WA-14.....
Old 11th May 2019 | Show parent
  #356
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Would be interested to hear more opinions about this mic...
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