Quantcast
Tube Mic / Tube Pre sounds better after warming up for extended period of time 24hrs - Page 4 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Tube Mic / Tube Pre sounds better after warming up for extended period of time 24hrs
Old 6th January 2017
  #91
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
For those of you who bias your own tube amplifiers or design or work on tube equipment where you are monitoring voltages etc., you know that it can take quite a while before things settle down, perhaps up to an hour, especially on newer tubes which can take days. On a theoretical level, there are optimal intended operating levels that contribute to proper functioning of the circuit. These differences are measurable but mightn't make a huge difference in sound even though they do indeed exist.

There is also the question of what monitoring is involved when attempting to discern these differences, not to mention the level of interest, experience, and ultimately discernment of the listener.

There will always be minutia that is beyond the ability or interest of the average person to discern, whether it be what makes an aficionado prefer a pre war Martin guitar to it's sibling from the 70s, or a $30 bottle of wine to a $10 bottle. Many won't care. And there's nothing saying they should. It doesn't mean that there is no difference, nor that the difference "shouldn't" matter to someone else. If you notice the difference, and that difference matters to you, end of story. There will always be those who will make the point that there are hundreds of great records that were made without premium cables or whatever. They are absolutely right. It is not necessary to attend to any particular minutia to make a great record. But that is irrelevant to whether there is a difference or whether it should matter to you. Artists do what they do the way they do it because it matters to them. It is this depth of attention, through whatever media, that brings the depth of the artist's caring attention into manifestation, however perceivable to a given person.

That still leaves the question of whether a given issue makes any actual difference or not. My point is that answering that question is not a simple as some would have it.

For me, there are two reasons to answer it. One is for your own purposes. The other is for the purposes of whoever might be trying to learn something form you, such as here on Gearslutz. For the former, do what ever turns you on. For the latter, I aspire to a greater objectivity.

Last edited by Piedpiper; 7th January 2017 at 04:47 PM..
1
Share
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf ➡️
I notice something strange about this thread.

People with some expert background, say it is entirely possible. People who just have an opinion, say "no way".
Interesting that you know how much "expert experience" everyone has. Not to be confrontational, but there are people here using AKA's, and safe to assume that you never met the vast majority of people posting in this thread. Dubious assumption, at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf ➡️
Then we get the wire argument thrown in. Physics say that there is no possible way for different adequately sized wire to change the sound. Physics say that properly designed equipment warmed up to steady state temp's, which can take awhile, is likely going to sound better than it does before being warmed up.

Audio people are weird. Do they actually hear those super subtle nuances that no one else does, or is it just their imagination? And, if no one else can hear them, are they actually important?
Odd how audio people hear everything, yet so many deny the effect of time, psychology, human physical fluctuations and constantly changing conditions of all kinds, not just the one condition they are currently focused on, i.e. a wire size or a mic left on. Another dubious assumption that fails to consider the entire picture.

The best audio engineers I've known in 40 years of doing this at all levels are those who filter aesthetics through hard science. It's the one and only way to move forward in knowledge and applied skill... not only in audio, but in everything we do that involved technicals.
1
Share
Old 6th January 2017
  #93
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lotta sniping back and forth... Seems like this thread has reached total OT velocity... Original questionn asked and answered? Check! Lock it? Please!!

Last edited by bgood; 7th January 2017 at 09:52 AM.. Reason: Sp
2
Share
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
...answering that question is not a simple as some would have it.
Yes, that pretty much puts it all in a sentence.
1
Share
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Besides ruing out placebo - or proving the benefits of extreme warm-up, I would think another reason for a careful test would be to examine the possibility that the OP's microphone is truly broken. Perhaps there is something wrong with the tube or some circuit that prevents it from warming up.

What if the mic actually sounds BAD when only warmed up for a normal period and only sounds NORMAL when being warmed up for several days? The perceived change in 'quality' might be relative. Not having other mics of the same type to compare, or experience with many similar mics, this 'return to normal' operating condition might be perceived as an 'increase in quality'.

While IMO, it is highly unlikely that a mic could go from good to great by adding 24 hours of warm up time, I could see going from crap to good if there was something broken about it to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️

Odd how audio people hear everything, yet so many deny the effect of time, psychology, human physical fluctuations and constantly changing conditions of all kinds, not just the one condition they are currently focused on, i.e. a wire size or a mic left on. Another dubious assumption that fails to consider the entire picture.
I am not a betting man, but this is where I would put my money if I were inclined to wager on the outcome of a rigorous test.
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #96
Here for the gear
Manley Ref C tube mic without warmup

Here's what the Manley Ref C sounds like when it's not warmed up. I maybe had the mic on for 2 minutes before recording this video. After owning this mic for years, I can say that you're not going to hear an audible difference between the cold Manley vs the warm Manley. Can only speak for this mic, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=craROF_NOz0
1
Share
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
 
26 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf ➡️
I notice something strange about this thread.

People with some expert background, say it is entirely possible. People who just have an opinion, say "no way".

Then we get the wire argument thrown in. Physics say that there is no possible way for different adequately sized wire to change the sound. Physics say that properly designed equipment warmed up to steady state temp's, which can take awhile, is likely going to sound better than it does before being warmed up.

Audio people are weird. Do they actually hear those super subtle nuances that no one else does, or is it just their imagination? And, if no one else can hear them, are they actually important?
Personally, I love this post. Very subtle, a bit mysterious, yet substantive.
Very similar to the effects of a good long warm up. IMHO. YMMV.

Last edited by edva; 6th January 2017 at 11:50 PM.. Reason: +
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #98
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandpollard1 ➡️
Here's what the Manley Ref C sounds like when it's not warmed up. I maybe had the mic on for 2 minutes before recording this video. After owning this mic for years, I can say that you're not going to hear an audible difference between the cold Manley vs the warm Manley. Can only speak for this mic, though.
Yeah, be safe to say that 2 minutes vs 20 minutes is going to make a significant difference, in sound. More to the point, in stability. A tube mic is going to dynamically change during the warm up period, and then become stable after everything is up to temp.

Comfortable looking record room you have there
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #99
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf ➡️
I notice something strange about this thread.

People with some expert background, say it is entirely possible. People who just have an opinion, say "no way".

Then we get the wire argument thrown in. Physics say that there is no possible way for different adequately sized wire to change the sound. Physics say that properly designed equipment warmed up to steady state temp's, which can take awhile, is likely going to sound better than it does before being warmed up.

Audio people are weird. Do they actually hear those super subtle nuances that no one else does, or is it just their imagination? And, if no one else can hear them, are they actually important?
Err...who are you calling "expert" and who isn't with "just an opinion"?

I've already mentioned one extremely knowledgeable mic tech/designer who says it's not necessary. Do you get more expert than that?

I've also said I'm willing to be convinced - but the OP only wants us to a) trust that he knows what he's hearing or b) do some sort of half-arsed flawed test and expect that to prove something.

I'm willing to listen, but OP isn't willing to risk finding out his perception is just that - a perception, not reality.
3
Share
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #100
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Yeah, be safe to say that 2 minutes vs 20 minutes is going to make a significant difference, in sound. More to the point, in stability. A tube mic is going to dynamically change during the warm up period, and then become stable after everything is up to temp.

Comfortable looking record room you have there


Thanks a ton. I did an a/b test on the mic last year and literally couldn't hear any difference between initial startup vs an hour of being warm. I think this calls for an audio sample comparison at some point. Let me know if there is something specific I should be listening for.
1
Share
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Saying there's a big improvement with tube gear being on for many hours could be similar to leaving a tube guitar amp on and expecting it to sound more awesome as the hours went by.

Change is possible on a granular/micro level, but maybe not for the better, just different.

After running a tube chain 6 to 8 hours most days (Soma, Michelangelo, SMC_2B, Vari-Mu) and sometimes leaving stuff on over night, I haven't experienced what the op is describing beyond a micro level that's not really quantifiable.

For myth busting, recording different performances probably won't give you much to go on.
Having the same repeatable control would help. gl

Last edited by Waltz Mastering; 7th January 2017 at 07:02 AM.. Reason: typo
2
Share
Old 7th January 2017
  #102
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Anyone interested, need to leave your tube mic on 6-8 hours and then check it out. The metal needs to be phsyically hot to the touch.

I always get happy when the gear is all warmed up. Doesn't really sound different, at least in an overt detectable way. But I do sort of 'sense' that maybe when 6 hours hot the transients sort of "smoosh" on drum hits. But then my whole chain is hot as well... it's also such a 1/10 of 1% kind of thing, that I can't really say it's not imagination... sort of like at a great live concert and you 'just know' that the band is in some kind of trance near the end of the set and the music is just getting better and better.. then next day you watch other people's phone footage its like.. oh ok maybe I was getting ahead of myself.

Given the choice, I'd choose all warmed up gear. But it's not so important it's worth waiting for, or even paying extra electicity for.

And certainly it could change the sound, theoretically, physically, scientifically, as components drift in values with temp.
2
Share
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood ➡️
Lotta sniping back and forth... Seems like this thread has reached total OT velocity... Original questionn asked and answered? Check! Lock it? Please!!
no this is a valid thread and question. it hasnt reached a conclusion just a lot of speculation
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #104
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
For those of you who bias your own tube amplifiers or design or work on tube equipment where you are monitoring voltages etc., you know that it can take quite a while before things settle down, perhaps up to an hour, especially on newer tubes which can take days. On a theoretical level, there are optimal intended operating levels that contribute to proper functioning of the circuit. These differences are measurable but mightn't make a huge difference in sound even though they do indeed exist.

There is also the question of what monitoring is involved when attempting to discern these differences, not to mention the level of interest, experience, and ultimately discernment of the listener.

There will always be minutia that is beyond the ability or interest of the average person to discern, whether it be what makes an aficionado prefer a per war Martin guitar to it's sibling from the 70s, or a $30 bottle of wine to a $10 bottle. Many won't care. And there's nothing saying they should. It doesn't mean that there is no difference, nor that the difference "shouldn't" matter to someone else. If you notice the difference, and that difference matters to you, end of story. There will always be those who will make the point that there are hundreds of great records that were made without premium cables or whatever. They are absolutely right. It is not necessary to attend to any particular minutia to make a great record. But that is irrelevant to whether there is a difference or whether it should matter to you. Artists do what they do the way they do it because it matters to them. It is this depth of attention, through whatever media, that brings the depth of the artist's caring attention into manifestation, however perceivable to a given person.

That still leaves the question of whether a given issue makes any actual difference or not. My point is that answering that question is not a simple as some would have it.

For me, there are two reasons to answer it. One is for your own purposes. The other is for the purposes of whoever might be trying to learn something form you, such as here on Gearslutz. For the former, do what ever turns you on. For the latter, I aspire to a greater objectivity.
thanks for the reply

to everyone asking I already said i will be posting my findings next week, or if i find nothing i will edit the origional post and say that there is no difference and it was placebo. I am not trolling nor am I trying to boast or brag. People took this thread to a place it didn't need to go. so much speculation without any testing. So what if they say you are supposed to leave your gear on for 20 min before it sounds normal. they test computer monitors to be "perfect" in a lab but when you get them at home you still need to calibrate them.

I heard a difference in my own gear. I heard it without trying to hear anything. On multiple occasions. I know what I heard. I dont care if you won 10 grammys your not going to talk me out of that. Until I know whats going on with my own personal gear, for myself, i don't care what anybody says to discredit my ability to listen. I am just asking about it on gearslutz for reference. I thought there may be an answer.

It is good to hear that some have actually agreed, and supposedly measured a difference when leaving tube gear on for an extended period. So there may be something to it that the rest of us have not looked into. Also, This is 100 year old house I am in right now so my issue may have nothing to do with the gear. Who knows. the wiring is really old. it still has a fuze box. I was recording different people on some occasions, there are variables. Still, I can honestly say I am hearing a difference in the tone from accidentally leaving the mic on. I record different people all the time, I still know what my mic sounds like. Plus it's not just with a tube mic, I got the same effect from leaving on my Blue Robbie tube Preamp too. That was the 1st time it happened.

If i can duplicate the difference in tone i heard, and its clearly audible to me and everyone else in my controlled test, that would be great. If its placebo or there is only a really small difference, I will accept that. But let me find out before you all start jumping to conclusions without doing anything yourself. They used to think the world was flat remember? I am willing to question anything. Even if its dumb or causes a commotion. I see no shame in that. It's a learning experience. If i hear a difference there might be something to it and apparently im not the only one. Stop being so closed minded everybody
1
Share
Old 7th January 2017 | Show parent
  #105
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandpollard1 ➡️
Thanks a ton. I did an a/b test on the mic last year and literally couldn't hear any difference between initial startup vs an hour of being warm. I think this calls for an audio sample comparison at some point. Let me know if there is something specific I should be listening for.
I think the big key is that the mic stops changing after about 20 minutes. Each unit will display different characteristics as it warms, going through changes specific to that particular mic and tube. Also, components will actually change size as they warm, affecting performance. After about 20 minutes to an hour tops, everything is stable at operating temp.

You might notice lower noise and less, or different distortion characteristics.

This, from Octavamod's Michael Joly...
Yes, tube mics do need some burn-in and warm up. When a mic is shipped the tube gets shaken up and this causes a degree of spitting and sputtering for the first couple of days until the tube heater burns off the impurities in the electron flow and that stream of charged particles gets purged of impurities. After the initial burn-in period of several days a tube mic that has been stationary and not shaken, will warm up and behave well after an hour.

This might suggest that if the mic is brand new, just shipped in, a day of burn in could indeed affect performance of the OP's mic noticeably.

Or, possibly the mic is getting shaken quite a bit somehow between uses. Maybe transported between a studio and home? According to Joly, this would require a day of break-in for every use as the "tube heater burns off the impurities in the electron flow..."
3
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #106
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
no this is a valid thread and question. it hasnt reached a conclusion just a lot of speculation
Well... That's not quite true. Everybody but you pretty much has come to the same conclusion.

The speculating here begins and ends with your original post. Of course, you could stick a fork in it by posting some audio examples as has been suggested repeatedly.

Put up or, you know the rest,,,
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #107
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
thanks for the reply

to everyone asking I already said i will be posting my findings next week, or if i find nothing i will edit the origional post and say that there is no difference and it was placebo. I am not trolling nor am I trying to boast or brag. People took this thread to a place it didn't need to go. so much speculation without any testing. So what if they say you are supposed to leave your gear on for 20 min before it sounds normal. they test computer monitors to be "perfect" in a lab but when you get them at home you still need to calibrate them.

I heard a difference in my own gear. I heard it without trying to hear anything. On multiple occasions. I know what I heard. I dont care if you won 10 grammys your not going to talk me out of that. Until I know whats going on with my own personal gear, for myself, i don't care what anybody says to discredit my ability to listen. I am just asking about it on gearslutz for reference. I thought there may be an answer.

It is good to hear that some have actually agreed, and supposedly measured a difference when leaving tube gear on for an extended period. So there may be something to it that the rest of us have not looked into. Also, This is 100 year old house I am in right now so my issue may have nothing to do with the gear. Who knows. the wiring is really old. it still has a fuze box. I was recording different people on some occasions, there are variables. Still, I can honestly say I am hearing a difference in the tone from accidentally leaving the mic on. I record different people all the time, I still know what my mic sounds like. Plus it's not just with a tube mic, I got the same effect from leaving on my Blue Robbie tube Preamp too. That was the 1st time it happened.

If i can duplicate the difference in tone i heard, and its clearly audible to me and everyone else in my controlled test, that would be great. If its placebo or there is only a really small difference, I will accept that. But let me find out before you all start jumping to conclusions without doing anything yourself. They used to think the world was flat remember? I am willing to question anything. Even if its dumb or causes a commotion. I see no shame in that. It's a learning experience. If i hear a difference there might be something to it and apparently im not the only one. Stop being so closed minded everybody
why don't you go ahead an post the files...
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood ➡️
why don't you go ahead an post the files...
I will post the files when i have some free time. My life doesnt revolve around proving my abilities on gearslutz. Does that really even matter! I want to do it right, so i need a free day but i havent had that. Next week
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
I think the big key is that the mic stops changing after about 20 minutes. Each unit will display different characteristics as it warms, going through changes specific to that particular mic and tube. Also, components will actually change size as they warm, affecting performance. After about 20 minutes to an hour tops, everything is stable at operating temp.

You might notice lower noise and less, or different distortion characteristics.

This, from Octavamod's Michael Joly...
Yes, tube mics do need some burn-in and warm up. When a mic is shipped the tube gets shaken up and this causes a degree of spitting and sputtering for the first couple of days until the tube heater burns off the impurities in the electron flow and that stream of charged particles gets purged of impurities. After the initial burn-in period of several days a tube mic that has been stationary and not shaken, will warm up and behave well after an hour.

This might suggest that if the mic is brand new, just shipped in, a day of burn in could indeed affect performance of the OP's mic noticeably.

Or, possibly the mic is getting shaken quite a bit somehow between uses. Maybe transported between a studio and home? According to Joly, this would require a day of break-in for every use as the "tube heater burns off the impurities in the electron flow..."
Yes the mic was practically brand new. Only powered on once before i had it. But ive owned it almost a year now and have been using it regularly
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood ➡️
Well... That's not quite true. Everybody but you pretty much has come to the same conclusion.

The speculating here begins and ends with your original post. Of course, you could stick a fork in it by posting some audio examples as has been suggested repeatedly.

Put up or, you know the rest,,,
No. Your not reading the thread. About 4-5 people have explained similar findings. The rest are just speculating
Old 8th January 2017
  #111
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Anyone here is welcome to do a test of their own.
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
I will post the files when i have some free time. My life doesnt revolve around proving my abilities on gearslutz. Does that really even matter! I want to do it right, so i need a free day but i havent had that. Next week
I'm not asking you to prove anything at all, least of all your abilities.

Just a couple of simple snippets... One with a standard 20-30 warm up the other with the overnight burn or whatever it was.
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
dights's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
About 4-5 people have explained similar findings. The rest are just speculating
Just speculating, eh? I love it when people discount the advice from others who may have decades of professional experience, it only makes their point seem all the more valid

If you're really that convinced then do a proper planned test using a fixed sound source for yourself. There's no need to post it.

If you find conclusive evidence that your mic sounds different having been on for over a day, then take it to be serviced... because it shouldn't.

Simple.
1
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #114
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You "think" you hear a difference; you refuse to do a reasonable test.

You say we're being "closed minded" but you both refuse to provide a fair test, and discount not only years of experience but the words of the guys who build the stuff.

You then grasp on to the words of the couple of guys who say you MIGHT have a point, and completely disregard the many voices saying you've got to don ore than assume you know your gear.

Really - I've worked in the same room for 4 years, more than full time hours, with the same gear (expanding collection of course!).

I'm constantly double checking myself and making sure things are consistent. I couldn't make the claims you are with any certainty. IMO you possibly need to rely less on your infallibility and more on what you can actually test/prove - IF you want to make sweeping assertions like this, or actually understand what is ir isn't true.

If you don't really care - it doesn't matter, just make music, waste time, whatever - it's all good. But don't expect other to just believe you. It's not close minded, it's healthy sceptisism of a claim that isn't supported by manufacturers of the stuff you're using, pro engineers working on the records that are released, or even your own tests - because you refuse to do a fair one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
thanks for the reply

to everyone asking I already said i will be posting my findings next week, or if i find nothing i will edit the origional post and say that there is no difference and it was placebo. I am not trolling nor am I trying to boast or brag. People took this thread to a place it didn't need to go. so much speculation without any testing. So what if they say you are supposed to leave your gear on for 20 min before it sounds normal. they test computer monitors to be "perfect" in a lab but when you get them at home you still need to calibrate them.

I heard a difference in my own gear. I heard it without trying to hear anything. On multiple occasions. I know what I heard. I dont care if you won 10 grammys your not going to talk me out of that. Until I know whats going on with my own personal gear, for myself, i don't care what anybody says to discredit my ability to listen. I am just asking about it on gearslutz for reference. I thought there may be an answer.

It is good to hear that some have actually agreed, and supposedly measured a difference when leaving tube gear on for an extended period. So there may be something to it that the rest of us have not looked into. Also, This is 100 year old house I am in right now so my issue may have nothing to do with the gear. Who knows. the wiring is really old. it still has a fuze box. I was recording different people on some occasions, there are variables. Still, I can honestly say I am hearing a difference in the tone from accidentally leaving the mic on. I record different people all the time, I still know what my mic sounds like. Plus it's not just with a tube mic, I got the same effect from leaving on my Blue Robbie tube Preamp too. That was the 1st time it happened.

If i can duplicate the difference in tone i heard, and its clearly audible to me and everyone else in my controlled test, that would be great. If its placebo or there is only a really small difference, I will accept that. But let me find out before you all start jumping to conclusions without doing anything yourself. They used to think the world was flat remember? I am willing to question anything. Even if its dumb or causes a commotion. I see no shame in that. It's a learning experience. If i hear a difference there might be something to it and apparently im not the only one. Stop being so closed minded everybody
2
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #115
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
My life doesnt revolve around proving my abilities
an interesting turn of phrase. Some people would look at the test as being a test of the microphone's behavior.

Quote:
i noticed it because I record here all the time and am accustomed to the way vocals sound in here.
Statements like that make it so that it is about your 'abilities'. Your ability to be an objective machine and isolate multiple variables with just your mind. Don't feel bad if you don't achieve this, as it is not really possible for any human. As others have said, you don't have to post the files if you get a negative result, but you should still make the test for your own reference. One of the greatest 'abilities' is to understand the limits of your abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking ➡️
Anyone here is welcome to do a test of their own.
But you are the one having the out-of-the-ordinary experience. Is anyone else here experiencing a similar dramatic increase in 'quality' - 'warmer' and 'more detailed', 'texture and definition' from leaving their mic on overnight? What is there for them to 'test'?
1
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #116
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have only noticed a difference like that with my tube guitar amps.
They sound better after 30 minutes when everything is hot than they sound in the first 5 minutes. After that they don't change even if they are on all night.
I have not noticed that with tube mics or starved plate gear but if you hear it, that's all that matters.
Its impossible to post a clip with the mic cold then hot 24 hours later because whoever's doing the singing will sound different a day later and that would make a much greater difference.
1
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #117
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern ➡️
I have only noticed a difference like that with my tube guitar amps.
They sound better after 30 minutes when everything is hot than they sound in the first 5 minutes. After that they don't change even if they are on all night.
I have not noticed that with tube mics or starved plate gear but if you hear it, that's all that matters.
Its impossible to post a clip with the mic cold then hot 24 hours later because whoever's doing the singing will sound different a day later and that would make a much greater difference.
Record a pre-recorded source played on a speaker into the mic, cold, after 30 minutes, then 24 hours later. Compare. Done.
3
Share
Old 8th January 2017 | Show parent
  #118
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk ➡️
Record a pre-recorded source played on a speaker into the mic, cold, after 30 minutes, then 24 hours later. Compare. Done.
Yeah I guess you could do that but I don't know if you could detect the fine nuances he's describing if it was coming out of a speaker.
For the record, I don't think that there really is a difference between one hour and 24 hours on a tube mic but sometimes when you believe, you perform better therefore it is.
Old 9th January 2017 | Show parent
  #119
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern ➡️
Yeah I guess you could do that but I don't know if you could detect the fine nuances he's describing if it was coming out of a speaker.
For the record, I don't think that there really is a difference between one hour and 24 hours on a tube mic but sometimes when you believe, you perform better therefore it is.
It's not a "fine nuance" he's hearing, it's a clear and discernible difference! So clear that he didn't need to verify it, he just hears it, performance aside.

If you're using a good monitor speaker for playback, that's meant to reproduce all the details of the human voice, why would that be any less detailed or be less likely to show the nuances? It's just a control source - at any rate, it's literally the only way to do any sort of fair test - the only other way I guess would be to do a decent number of passes, with multiple singers, at both times, jumble them up and see if there's any corrolation perhaps?
1
Share
Old 9th January 2017 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dights ➡️
Just speculating, eh? I love it when people discount the advice from others who may have decades of professional experience, it only makes their point seem all the more valid

If you're really that convinced then do a proper planned test using a fixed sound source for yourself. There's no need to post it.

If you find conclusive evidence that your mic sounds different having been on for over a day, then take it to be serviced... because it shouldn't.

Simple.
if im hearing it im hearing it. period. I don't care what anybody says.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
You "think" you hear a difference; you refuse to do a reasonable test.

You say we're being "closed minded" but you both refuse to provide a fair test, and discount not only years of experience but the words of the guys who build the stuff.

You then grasp on to the words of the couple of guys who say you MIGHT have a point, and completely disregard the many voices saying you've got to don ore than assume you know your gear.

Really - I've worked in the same room for 4 years, more than full time hours, with the same gear (expanding collection of course!).

I'm constantly double checking myself and making sure things are consistent. I couldn't make the claims you are with any certainty. IMO you possibly need to rely less on your infallibility and more on what you can actually test/prove - IF you want to make sweeping assertions like this, or actually understand what is ir isn't true.

If you don't really care - it doesn't matter, just make music, waste time, whatever - it's all good. But don't expect other to just believe you. It's not close minded, it's healthy sceptisism of a claim that isn't supported by manufacturers of the stuff you're using, pro engineers working on the records that are released, or even your own tests - because you refuse to do a fair one.
I never refused to do a test. I said i would be testing next week. wait like everyone else. I know what I heard, I just dont know WHY i heard it. Thats the only thing I want to find out. Is it the tube? Is it something else. I don't know. But my hunch is the tube.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
an interesting turn of phrase. Some people would look at the test as being a test of the microphone's behavior.



Statements like that make it so that it is about your 'abilities'. Your ability to be an objective machine and isolate multiple variables with just your mind. Don't feel bad if you don't achieve this, as it is not really possible for any human. As others have said, you don't have to post the files if you get a negative result, but you should still make the test for your own reference. One of the greatest 'abilities' is to understand the limits of your abilities.



But you are the one having the out-of-the-ordinary experience. Is anyone else here experiencing a similar dramatic increase in 'quality' - 'warmer' and 'more detailed', 'texture and definition' from leaving their mic on overnight? What is there for them to 'test'?
I never refused to do a test. I said i would be testing next week. wait like everyone else. I know what I heard, I just dont know WHY i heard it. Thats the only thing I want to find out. Is it the tube? Is it something else. I don't know. But my hunch is the tube.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern ➡️
I have only noticed a difference like that with my tube guitar amps.
They sound better after 30 minutes when everything is hot than they sound in the first 5 minutes. After that they don't change even if they are on all night.
I have not noticed that with tube mics or starved plate gear but if you hear it, that's all that matters.
Its impossible to post a clip with the mic cold then hot 24 hours later because whoever's doing the singing will sound different a day later and that would make a much greater difference.
maybe maybe not. I can hear a difference in the way the gear sounds even if the vocals are different. Just like if you changed from a sm7b to a u47 you would hear a difference regardless of what you record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk ➡️
Record a pre-recorded source played on a speaker into the mic, cold, after 30 minutes, then 24 hours later. Compare. Done.
I may do that, but re recording a prerecorded source is really hard to tell the difference. I tried listening to the "clipalator" on zenpro audio, its very hard to tell the difference because they do that. I prefer a brand new recording every time that way you hear the gear from the start
Closed

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 98 views: 46158
Avatar for nst7
nst7 14th February 2014
replies: 140 views: 62676
Avatar for OceanMan
OceanMan 6th March 2019
replies: 2704 views: 407887
Avatar for Diogo C
Diogo C 30th October 2015
replies: 18 views: 2397
Avatar for AndyKingCo
AndyKingCo 30th November 2020
Topic:

Forum Jump
Forum Jump