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Have you edited metal drums before? editing double kick with room mics
Old 1st December 2016
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Have you edited metal drums before? editing double kick with room mics

This is a long post! If you don't wanna read it, DON'T ANSWER IT. I didn't half ass my question to receive a half-assed answer!


I'm recording a blackmetal band, and the musicianship is not so strong. They could not record to a click, so I had the guitarist play along with the drummer with the amp in both of their headphones.

To edit the drums, I've been using tap tempo every few bars or so (sometimes way longer) and then moving hits to the grid.

Their drummer has some fast double bass and blast-beat passages, in which the kicks vary from the snare in terms of timing. The snare is more on than the kicks.

NOW... Normally, what I understand some of you do, is to edit the kick separately if you have isolated the kick drum with a "kick tunnel", which I did. Some of you totally delete the kick, and draw in midi notes and trigger samples recorded from the session (Yes, I did record samples from these sessions). Completely replace it.


My issue is this: I'm in love with my goddamn room mics. They sound really, really good. I have a few. One is a blumlien facing the end of the kick tunnel, about 6-7 feet back. It gives snare definition, and a fat kick sound that sounds great.

I edit by hand (moving clips around, no EA whatsoever), and no matter what I do, my room mics suffer during editing for this kind of fast material. I think it's because I can't get the waveforms to line up in a pleasing way on the close mics in question, the overheads, and my rooms.

In other words, I end up with a performance that's WAY, way tighter. That's somewhat satisfactory. But my room mics are completely ruined during those fast parts, in which I think they sound really great.

SO, I'm at a loss. I'm really bummed that I can't have my cake and eat it, too. At least during those fast sections.

Is there anything I can do? I know if I completely draw in midi notes, that it will conflict with my rooms. I know that if I edit my kicks separately, because of how much kick is in the room mics, I'll also have this problem where my rooms don't match my close mics.

I know it's blackmetal, and if the drummer sucks no one's gonna really hear it or blame the engineer, but I think having a tight performance helps a lot, too. So I really feel like I'm in a corner now. What do you think I should do? Should I delete my room mics, or is there another way around all of this?
Old 1st December 2016
  #2
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🎧 15 years
Could you create a mixdown of just the edited close mic tracks, play that back through a PA speaker and re-record the room mics?
Old 1st December 2016
  #3
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1 Review written
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I would first group all the drum tracks and then edit so that the rooms retain their original relationship to the close mics. once the timing is fixed you can covert to midi or trigger samples as needed.

I'd also at least try elastic audio as it can be less of a compromise for this kind of thing. I also would basically edit for feel, worrying more about 1 and 3 sounding authoritative than having every in-between note perfectly on the beat. That said, a clunker is a clunker.
Old 1st December 2016
  #4
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🎧 10 years
Slide your room mic tracks back in time to align with the transient of the close mics. When you're done editing, delay them by the same amount you pulled them back.

Even still, it's hard to edit both kicks and snares in fast metal music without creating artifacts. That's why so many people just trigger the kick and highpass the overheads and rooms. You can usually get away without many artifacts by editing just the snare.
Old 1st December 2016
  #5
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🎧 10 years
Ditch the room mics, send all the drum tracks to a convolution room reverb buss and try to simulate the size of the room you were in. Bonus if you can take an IR of the room you were in with the room mics you used.
Old 1st December 2016
  #6
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
For metal I always sample the kick, snare, toms.
Five hard hits and five building from soft to hard.
I record the samples using close,room,and ovhd mics
and edit them as a group. I'll fix the original performance
than replace it using either copy paste or trigger.
Old 1st December 2016 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzcrisis ➑️
Slide your room mic tracks back in time to align with the transient of the close mics. When you're done editing, delay them by the same amount you pulled them back.

Even still, it's hard to edit both kicks and snares in fast metal music without creating artifacts. That's why so many people just trigger the kick and highpass the overheads and rooms. You can usually get away without many artifacts by editing just the snare.
... I'm confused, why would I delay my room track even more than it already is? The transients from the close mic show up later in these mics, as they would in any room mics, compared to close mics... They're already not getting cut right on the transient, if that's what you mean.
Old 1st December 2016 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peller ➑️
Could you create a mixdown of just the edited close mic tracks, play that back through a PA speaker and re-record the room mics?
That would be great, but I can't afford the studio time to do so by myself, and the band doesn't have the budget for such.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is, never let a metal band track without a click. Not unless they're incredibly good musicians. These guys are not. It's why I'm spending my time on edits. Even though I'd much rather be mixing right now.

While looking at my room mics, and wondering why I can't seem to move forward or backwards enough to find a place where the signal crosses zero between splices (for those unaware, this is how you get an edit done cleanly so no pops/clicks happen), I realized that this is due to the asymmetrical nature of the room mics (blumlein pair, bound to happen). I've only recorded rock with room mics, and the drummers have been pretty good so far. This is the first time I've had to record faster music with room mics.

Such a bummer! These tracks sounded so damn good! Now I gotta go mess em up. I refuse to use only samples, and editing kick separately from the rooms is going to basically ruin the room track and render it useless. Can't win! Oh well.

While I'm cussing and editing, does anyone else have any ideas?
Old 1st December 2016
  #9
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🎧 15 years
Well, if you absolutely need to apply edits only to the individual mics, I can't see any way of doing that without messing up the sound of mics that capture the whole kit. Is there enough repetition in the drum part that you can rebuild the entire part using only short sections that are in time and don't require that sort of editing?
Old 1st December 2016
  #10
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ARIEL's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I do a lot of of that over here. The best solution is to cut out all the lows and mids up to around 300 HZ so you dont hear the meat of the kit in your rooms just the cymbals. Or at least you almost dont hear it. Sample the room with your close mics for each part of the kit. and then not only replace the close mic but have it also trigger the room mic sample sound of the kik or snare/toms etc. This how you get your room sound back.
Old 1st December 2016 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peller ➑️
Well, if you absolutely need to apply edits only to the individual mics, I can't see any way of doing that without messing up the sound of mics that capture the whole kit. Is there enough repetition in the drum part that you can rebuild the entire part using only short sections that are in time and don't require that sort of editing?
I'm grouping my drum tracks and editing, sorry if thats caused any confusion. I edit manually without Elastic Audio. But maybe I'll need it.


I think I may have discovered one solution.. For the first few minutes 160bpm seemed to be what the drummer was aiming for, but on the grid, hes consistently later and later, making copy/pasting a little difficult. Probably needs to be a slower bpm as a whole. I think thats how these artifacts are coming up in such numbers and in weird ways. I gotta go to my day job in a few hrs, so I'm gonna start fresh tomorrow and see what happens.

I've edited drums plenty of times before, and I've pretty much never had to resort to elastic audio or had an artifact that a crossfade couldnt fix. With tons of room mics, too. But.. it was recorded to a click and a pre-recorded scratch track.
Old 1st December 2016
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I don't understand why you can't just slip edit everything as usual. It shouldn't kill the rooms, as far as I'm aware since it maintains the timing relationship for each individual hit.
Old 1st December 2016
  #13
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ok, so I edit a lot of metal drums, and I also really love room mics.

The main issue is that when you cut up your kick/snare so it sounds metronomic, as most modern metal styles require, you get this gaps in your room and overheads that make the ambience and cymbals sound really weird.

There's never really any perfectly good solution to this problem, but there are a few things you can try. Which one that you use depends on the playing, the specific genre of metal, the part of the sound, size of the room etc...

  • Comp takes, don't edit them - I'm sure you don't have this option now, but it's the best option next time.

    Try to record as many takes of each section as you possibly can. If I can afford it I will record 40-50 takes of a single part or until the drummer throws a tantrum. You may be surprised that often a really terrible drummer will screw up and get it right. Just comp that in and you're done.

    As a sidenote, I find that when working with metal musicians they often appreciate being really pushed on parts. You have to be careful to frame it positively. Things like "I think you can do that part a lot better, I heard you nail it during warmup" make a big difference. Saying something like, "That wasn't too hot, we need to do it again" will absolutely ruin the session.

  • Make big edits first. - Some drummers will play a consistent tempo but get shifted off early/late a bit.

    • Simply cut at a 'mistake' and move it in to place with everything to the right of it with it still attached.
    • Now listen.
    • Go to the next mistake of similar severity and repeat. Do the entire track only focusing on big mistakes. Listen and see how it sounds.
    • If necessary, reiterate with the next tier of mistake severity.
    • Stop when the track sounds acceptable. With some drummers you can get away with only making a handful of edits to fix hundreds of poor hits!

    If you get in to a myopic 'hit-to-the-grid' editing flow, you can often miss the fact that by shifting just a phrase over, you've basically corrected everything enough to be useable.

  • Do not group the Room/OH when editing - I know this sounds counterintuitive, but this is the option I choose most often when things have really gone downhill.

    Most drummers play poorly, but consistently poorly. There's some mechanic that causes them to be always late on specific phrases, early after other specific phrases, or whatever. You may not hear it at first but I assure you that you'll notice it after trying this.

    If the edits aren't too massive, after kick/snare editing without touching the room/OH you'll notice that the track will sound a bit weird, but it similar phrases always sound similarly weird. In the context of the mix this is usually acceptable. Sometimes when it's centered largely around transitional phrases (fills) it's even an appropriate sound that gives more movement to the track.

  • Corollary to the above: Put a rather extreme high-pass on the unedited tracks as well. It really helps with the clarity of the low-end.

  • Do individual track editing with cuts or audio warping. (bend, stretch, elastic audio, whatever your DAW calls it)

    Specifically, I very often will copy the hit markers from the kick track to the Room/OH and quantize the Room/OH only with the audio warping feature of the DAW. Then do normal slicing edits on your Kick and Snare.

    Note: Most DAWs audio warping features sound significantly better the more you can get away with low-passing them before you apply the warping. Listen to your Room/OH and see how much you can stand low-pass them (usually way more on the room), then apply that processing. Now warp them. High-end is the enemy.

  • Use audio warping (whatever your DAW calls it) on any parts with washy cymbals. Use slicing everywhere else.

  • Abuse your DAWs 'Fill Gaps' functionality.

    Specifically learn to use it in short selections. A big mistake people do is using the 'Fill Gaps' on the whole track, which usually doesn't sound right. Use it on small phrase-based selections of the track.

    It really depends on which DAW you use how this functional can be abused, but I strongly suggest intimately learning how your DAW's 'Fill Gaps' function works. It's indispensable.

  • If the part is somewhat on time, edit the other tracks to the drums.

    Often 'tightness' is a better goal than metronomic accuracy. Generally guitar tracks in chuggy/djenty genres are much easier to edit to drums than vice versa. In death-metal stuff it doesn't work too well, but it's worth mentioning.

    Make sure you're familiar with your DAW's ability to snap to nearby beat markers.

  • Make your own Room track

    This won't help with your OH's sounding awful still, but you can definitely use a reverb and EQ to make up your own "Post-edit room track". Use small room presets, high-shelf down a few DB on the track, usually a big bell cut on ~1k, a bit of saturation.

    Honestly, I rarely do this.

Those are my tips assuming that you don't want to use overbearing sample replacement or just re-record the whole damn thing with a better drummer.

Good luck.

Last edited by Robert Randolph; 1st December 2016 at 08:05 PM..
Old 1st December 2016
  #14
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Diogo C's Avatar
Great post Robert, sums it up pretty well.
Old 1st December 2016
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Did you track samples of the kit at the beginning or end of the drum tracking session? If not, lesson learned . No but seriously, if you did that, you could just replace the crap performance with a proper one with your actual sounds.

Also a second thought: just delete the room mics. Even if they sound great, a better sounding performance is more important than a pair of self-indulgent mic signals. Use a good room reverb and bus the shells to it, and EQ that to keep it clean but create a sense of room for the drum bus.

When I edit metal drums, I slip edit the entire group. I like to maintain phase coherence on all of my mic signals. I spend a lot of time setting the mics up to have proper phase relationships, I don't want to throw that out and lose all my power in the overheads and rooms by editing them separately. My overheads are a large part of my snare sound.

Also when recording poorly skilled drummers, I know that I can only push them so far and that their ability level won't let them go any further, so I don't push it past that point. I just stay positive and encouraging, and if I have to later, I'll use raw samples of the recorded drums and similar cymbals, and just MIDI map and humanize it. It's a sad sad thing to do but at the end of the day, my name is on the production and it is going to sound tight or I'm not interested in doing it. I can't give a client a song with wack drums. Drum sounds pay the bills in metal.

Last edited by dosilegecko; 1st December 2016 at 08:41 PM.. Reason: Other thoughts
Old 1st December 2016 | Show parent
  #16
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosilegecko ➑️
Also when recording poorly skilled drummers, I know that I can only push them so far and that their ability level won't let them go any further, so I don't push it past that point. I just stay positive and encouraging, and if I have to later, I'll use raw samples of the recorded drums and similar cymbals, and just MIDI map and humanize it.
I disagree with this partially because I think there's an extra layer.

From my previous post...

Quote:
You may be surprised that often a really terrible drummer will screw up and get it right.
Yes, poor musicians won't magically become better when you push them to their limit. No musicians will really. Everyone has their limit of performance and once you reach that you can't go much further.

What we call 'poor musicians' is really just a description of musicians that play inconsistently, either inconsistent with themselves or inconsistent from expectations of the style. I think that by pushing these players 'past their limit' we can take advantage of the inconsistency.

When you really start to over-push a bad musician, it's very unlikely that they will play the part totally right. The real magic though is that they rarely will consistently do it wrong. You can take advantage of that by using that inconsistency to comp together a much more natural sounding performance than you could get by painstakingly editing them. There's a bit of an art to this in how you speak to the person, how you approach which parts of the track to do, what time to do it etc... but it is definitely a system you can build on your own.

The better the musician, the less this works. Great musicians will usually start flubbing the exact same parts when they're over their limit and you have to stop. Then again, if you push a great musician then they've probably already given you a few perfect takes anyway.
Old 1st December 2016
  #17
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorchedwave ➑️
This is a long post! If you don't wanna read it, DON'T ANSWER IT. I didn't half ass my question to receive a half-assed answer!


I'm recording a blackmetal band, and the musicianship is not so strong. They could not record to a click, so I had the guitarist play along with the drummer with the amp in both of their headphones.

To edit the drums, I've been using tap tempo every few bars or so (sometimes way longer) and then moving hits to the grid.

Their drummer has some fast double bass and blast-beat passages, in which the kicks vary from the snare in terms of timing. The snare is more on than the kicks.

NOW... Normally, what I understand some of you do, is to edit the kick separately if you have isolated the kick drum with a "kick tunnel", which I did. Some of you totally delete the kick, and draw in midi notes and trigger samples recorded from the session (Yes, I did record samples from these sessions). Completely replace it.


My issue is this: I'm in love with my goddamn room mics. They sound really, really good. I have a few. One is a blumlien facing the end of the kick tunnel, about 6-7 feet back. It gives snare definition, and a fat kick sound that sounds great.

I edit by hand (moving clips around, no EA whatsoever), and no matter what I do, my room mics suffer during editing for this kind of fast material. I think it's because I can't get the waveforms to line up in a pleasing way on the close mics in question, the overheads, and my rooms.

In other words, I end up with a performance that's WAY, way tighter. That's somewhat satisfactory. But my room mics are completely ruined during those fast parts, in which I think they sound really great.

SO, I'm at a loss. I'm really bummed that I can't have my cake and eat it, too. At least during those fast sections.

Is there anything I can do? I know if I completely draw in midi notes, that it will conflict with my rooms. I know that if I edit my kicks separately, because of how much kick is in the room mics, I'll also have this problem where my rooms don't match my close mics.

I know it's blackmetal, and if the drummer sucks no one's gonna really hear it or blame the engineer, but I think having a tight performance helps a lot, too. So I really feel like I'm in a corner now. What do you think I should do? Should I delete my room mics, or is there another way around all of this?
Of course there is a way, I record a metal band very simular, but at least that drummer has good chops. But I've recorded the metal kids around here (under 18) and end up with a simular situation.

what I did was mix my drums without room on a bus then put my room in another bus and used a compressor in the room bus and side chained (keyed) a compressor with the drum mix. Try it you might like this "ducking the room with the drum mix" technique.
Old 2nd December 2016
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
In protools, tempo map the entire song. This will give you a grid based on their performance and you can tighten everything from there. Works really well. Look up "protools tempo map" on YouTube.
Old 2nd December 2016
  #19
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🎧 15 years
I don't correct tempo or any other musical errors because it doesn't reveal to them that they need to practice and get better before attempting to record with me. I give the kids a couple of free sessions like this. Yes it waste some of my time and $$, but they come back and I end up with something better to mix. I'm probably one of the few that will do this.
Old 2nd December 2016 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 10 years
Good points! I agree man, it's just difficult to spend hours and hours when time is so valuable. It's why I actually don't enjoy tracking and mostly take mixing gigs. At the end of the day I have to put out a product that withstands the expectations of the genre of the artist. I just don't enjoy spending tons and tons of time trying to squeeze blood from a rock when I have a clear path forward with a known time commitment, instead of a possible bottomless pit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph ➑️
I disagree with this partially because I think there's an extra layer.

From my previous post...



Yes, poor musicians won't magically become better when you push them to their limit. No musicians will really. Everyone has their limit of performance and once you reach that you can't go much further.

What we call 'poor musicians' is really just a description of musicians that play inconsistently, either inconsistent with themselves or inconsistent from expectations of the style. I think that by pushing these players 'past their limit' we can take advantage of the inconsistency.

When you really start to over-push a bad musician, it's very unlikely that they will play the part totally right. The real magic though is that they rarely will consistently do it wrong. You can take advantage of that by using that inconsistency to comp together a much more natural sounding performance than you could get by painstakingly editing them. There's a bit of an art to this in how you speak to the person, how you approach which parts of the track to do, what time to do it etc... but it is definitely a system you can build on your own.

The better the musician, the less this works. Great musicians will usually start flubbing the exact same parts when they're over their limit and you have to stop. Then again, if you push a great musician then they've probably already given you a few perfect takes anyway.
Old 2nd December 2016
  #21
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Robert wins the award for not being a dick, and reading the whole post, and the dude deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for actually having a solution!!

I'll try this out. Thanks so much for your time and insight.

I think the #1 thing I need to do before tracking next time is be adamant about a click. Seriously. The bands I work with dont have the budget to pay me for these edits, and I despise doing it. Editing is fine, but this... editing drums that are always shifting without a click, this is bonkers.

Keep in mind that I work a day job (we cant all be jaded engineers w/ 25 years of studio experience) and the band has a very tight budget for recording and mixing. They've got 11 songs, too.

Anyhow, thanks! Maybe once I'm more practiced with these techniques, I'll be able to take on projects like these.
Old 2nd December 2016 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 5 years
Robert

Amazing procedure and response. Just taught me some great technique.

razorack
Old 11th December 2016
  #23
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ARIEL's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Most of the problems I find when tracking metal drums is the Kick issue, trying to play parts they cant. So I usually get them to play no kicks are a very simple version and I then pencil in the rest.
Old 11th December 2016 | Show parent
  #24
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARIEL ➑️
Most of the problems I find when tracking metal drums is the Kick issue, trying to play parts they cant. So I usually get them to play no kicks are a very simple version and I then pencil in the rest.
Yeah, thats a big one. I dunno. I think it depends on the genre. I was freaking the hell out about this for a moment until I realized that there's only so much I can do at this stage. I COULD sit down for 8 hrs a song and try to get everything perfect, (which the band isnt gonna pay me for and would be challenging for me, someone who isnt a seasoned audio engineer with a decade plus behind them) but is it worth it for blackmetal? Something thats supposed to be raw, nasty, and has a history of sloppy playing?

... sort of. So I'll get things as close as I can without artifacts and probably trigger the kick parts, and automate a high pass on my rooms for these parts. Sort of lame, but.. might be a solid fix
Old 12th December 2016 | Show parent
  #25
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drtechno ➑️
I don't correct tempo or any other musical errors because it doesn't reveal to them that they need to practice and get better before attempting to record with me. I give the kids a couple of free sessions like this. Yes it waste some of my time and $$, but they come back and I end up with something better to mix. I'm probably one of the few that will do this.
I suppose it depends if your goal is to educate or make a good recording. Most guys trying to make a living can't donate time like this!
Old 12th December 2016
  #26
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🎧 15 years
I don't know the guys situation. Its the only example I have. Some people say I shouldn't bother either. But its free time I get to burn with them and its not the time that is dedicated to paying the bills.
Old 13th December 2016 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
I suppose it depends if your goal is to educate or make a good recording. Most guys trying to make a living can't donate time like this!
Totally. I used to fume at some people I know who wouldn't spend time to edit at all, until I realized that they basically dont have the time to fix a totally horrible performance. Small issues and comps, sure, but fixing a part someone wrote, never rehearsed, and totally botched, without completely reprogramming all drums and even resorting to cymbal samples... Yeah. Probably very little time for that. And way less motivation, considering genre-specific boundaries one should be aware of (older underground black/death metal hardly ever relies on samples).

I could never make a living doing this while I'm still learning... and I'm sort of glad. I know I'm gonna make mistakes like these. I'm seriously not ready to do this for a living. After this project, I'm going to take a long time to practice editing and mixing. I can get better sounds than a lot of people at my level of experience, but its honestly not enough for me. Like I know I can get better and should keep recording, but maybe not for $ right now. I need my mixing and editing skills to catch up with my mic placement/drum tuning/amp fiddling skills.

I don't really have any mentors aside from the wonderful people who I was able to intern with for a while (basically opened the door for me to learn on my own, but were too busy to really "teach" me much) and those of you at gearslutz who are gracious enough to follow up without intense judgement. And also, tp those with intense judgement. Sometimes a kick in the pants is helpful!
Old 13th December 2016
  #28
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evilgrill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Too many bands exist and most of them suck. I get the feeling that many young musicians take no pride in playing good. Appearance seems to be more important than creating good music. When I was young you could'nt get anywhere playing metal and not having decent chops. Making bad bands sound better through editing is really sad. Black Metal is a very creative and open style, but some bands adopt a self serving attitude that sucking at what you do is cool and "true". Let those who suck, suck.
Old 14th December 2016
  #29
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chrischoir's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorchedwave ➑️
This is a long post! If you don't wanna read it, DON'T ANSWER IT. I didn't half ass my question to receive a half-assed answer!


I'm recording a blackmetal band, and the musicianship is not so strong. They could not record to a click, so I had the guitarist play along with the drummer with the amp in both of their headphones.

To edit the drums, I've been using tap tempo every few bars or so (sometimes way longer) and then moving hits to the grid.

Their drummer has some fast double bass and blast-beat passages, in which the kicks vary from the snare in terms of timing. The snare is more on than the kicks.

NOW... Normally, what I understand some of you do, is to edit the kick separately if you have isolated the kick drum with a "kick tunnel", which I did. Some of you totally delete the kick, and draw in midi notes and trigger samples recorded from the session (Yes, I did record samples from these sessions). Completely replace it.


My issue is this: I'm in love with my goddamn room mics. They sound really, really good. I have a few. One is a blumlien facing the end of the kick tunnel, about 6-7 feet back. It gives snare definition, and a fat kick sound that sounds great.

I edit by hand (moving clips around, no EA whatsoever), and no matter what I do, my room mics suffer during editing for this kind of fast material. I think it's because I can't get the waveforms to line up in a pleasing way on the close mics in question, the overheads, and my rooms.

In other words, I end up with a performance that's WAY, way tighter. That's somewhat satisfactory. But my room mics are completely ruined during those fast parts, in which I think they sound really great.

SO, I'm at a loss. I'm really bummed that I can't have my cake and eat it, too. At least during those fast sections.

Is there anything I can do? I know if I completely draw in midi notes, that it will conflict with my rooms. I know that if I edit my kicks separately, because of how much kick is in the room mics, I'll also have this problem where my rooms don't match my close mics.

I know it's blackmetal, and if the drummer sucks no one's gonna really hear it or blame the engineer, but I think having a tight performance helps a lot, too. So I really feel like I'm in a corner now. What do you think I should do? Should I delete my room mics, or is there another way around all of this?
I hope I understand your issue, disregard if I am mistaken

I think you just need to edit all the tracks at the same time vertically, and then snap the individual hits to a grid. After you move the hits to the grid, time stretch the edits accordingly to eliminate gaps. Beat detective or whatever will do this automatically. Then you can heal/join the splices.

After quantize, in the intro part you are referring to, you can simply splice that section and move only your room mic tracks slightly to the left so there is not as much ambience only in that section. Then the OH will sound tighter in that section. In the other parts of the song you can keep the room mics at their normal position to retain their ambience. I do this all the time for the same reason (I think) you are describing.

I have on occasion nudged the room mics to the left and aligned them with the close hits to really tighten up the kit while retaining the oomph the room mics provide. It works great.
Old 14th December 2016 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilgrill ➑️
Let those who suck, suck.
Nah, I'd rather do the work and make the record sound good to the furthest extent that time/my skills allow.
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