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Folcrom. Wow. I had no idea.
Old 21st May 2006 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5

I'm thinking the sonic differences Nathan is hearing are the sonic differences of the pre-amps

Precisely.

Which is why everyone is asking what this or that preamp sounds like with the Folcrom. Basically like strapping that pre on the whole mix, hint... scaled down <i>insert brand here</i> console. It's not just a band aid of "colored preamp" on a clean scaled down 16x2 mixer (i.e. the Folcrom), the preamp is performing an actual electronic process, as I mentioned above.
Old 3rd July 2006 | Show parent
  #32
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mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy
Any chance you have tried Millennia HV3D pres as makeup gain?

how did it sound on a mix?

how about A Designs Pacifica?

thanks!!!


Old 28th October 2006 | Show parent
  #33
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwater ➑️
I have a pretty good idea the Shadow hills and the Pacifica would sound great with the Folcrom. Anyone tried either one yet?
just stumbled on this thread. my new favorite back end for the Folcrom is SH Gama. have Neve 1272s, V72, API 312, Germs, Avalon M22 and Flamingo (which i use w/Folcrom when real clean is called for).

haven't been able to hear a Pacifica. would really like to hear someone's comments on those compared to SH.
Old 28th October 2006 | Show parent
  #34
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six_wax's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Which setting? I'm still drooling over the Equinox...
Old 28th October 2006 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
for the folcrom i really love nickel and discrete. steel is nice but for that sound i prefer real 312s. haven't tried recording through them yet though. will when i get a chance.
Old 5th January 2007
  #36
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Folcrom. Wow. I had no idea.

I just got a Folcrom today and ran it through my GAMA 8 for makeup gain. Only using 10 of the 16 available for summing, but JEEEZIS... the difference is HUGE. All kinds of space in the mix that wasn't there. This is NOT just adding color some naysayers of summing mixers have said. This is called the difference between MUSH and DEFINITION.

Really really really really like it a lot.

Thanks to RMS for great gear that helps me sound better.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #37
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s_sibs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
...um...GAMMA 8...me thinks...
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #38
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six_wax's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just for grins, run the same mix out into just 2 tracks of the Folcrom (i.e. L & R Master), then use the GAMA for makeup gain again. Tell us what differences you hear.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #39
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BradM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Also, please post clips if you are feeling generous.

thanks,
Brad
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #40
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audiomichael's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, even a short clip would be great!

What DAW are you using?
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #41
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Undoubtedly, the GAMA is giving me the punch, the color. Running a mix into 2 channels of the Folcrom isn't even worth the experiment. The Folcrom doesn't sound like anything. What I'm getting is a definition that was missing before. Where everything was a bit smeary, now there is space around it all. Everything has a place.

I was saving for an Equinox. Knowing Peter's work well and wanting a versatile summing solution, it seemed like a good fit for me. But, the more I thought about the investment,....why not be able to use my Pacifica for makeup gain of a totally different color, if the music wants it? I decided to take the plunge because I'm mixing a rock record now and got tired of not feeling the bass and kick. After 3 passes of zeroing the faders and re-placing everything, I got fed up. The music is good and I want to get this one right.

I don't mix a lot of records. I mostly compose for commercials and do a little bit of mastering. Anyway, the artist on this one is a friend of mine that I really admire and respect. He has given me carte blanche to do whatever I want with the mixes. I'd like to at least start from a place of sonic clarity. Too much to ask?

I got what I wanted. With the Folcrom in place, it was little effort to get things punchy and big. I listened to the cd in my car over and over again on the way home, pounding my fist against the wheel, saying, "I can't believe how HUUUGE it is!".

When time permits, I'll be more than happy to B*&%CE TO D#SK a mix through the PT buss and post both for all you naysayers...

For now, you'll have to live with the fact that today I graduated.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #42
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael ➑️
Yes, even a short clip would be great!

What DAW are you using?
PTHD3, AD16x, DA16x.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #43
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
And do not forget the beauty of the Folcrum, a choice of make up amps (preamps) depending on the style you are working on - WHY NOT I say!
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The advantage of the folcrum is that it doesn't do anything. When I first got mine, I did a quick mix ITB. I then ran the mix through the folcrum and into a pair of Mackie mic Pres. I couldn't tell the difference at all. I was kinda bummed. Next I ran the folcrum into a pair o APIs and then the difference was huge. More detail, more width, mor clarity, more warmth, etc etc.

Which made me realize. That mixing completely ITB, it not out of the question. But it's more like mixing on a mackie and requires much more work to get detail and depth. Now I use a combination of Fulcrum with a Flamingo, and a Manley tube mixer.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #45
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s_sibs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Are you using something like the ATTY after the GAMMA 8 so you can drive the gain higher or do you just wind the GAMMA up and do your final leveling elsewhere?
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #46
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Use the other 6 ins on the Fulcrom for hardware reverb returns, use some of the left over Apogee outputs to send to the reverbs.

Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #47
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by six_wax
Just for grins, run the same mix out into just 2 tracks of the Folcrom (i.e. L & R Master), then use the GAMA for makeup gain again. Tell us what differences you hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwater ➑️
Undoubtedly, the GAMA is giving me the punch, the color. Running a mix into 2 channels of the Folcrom isn't even worth the experiment.
Darkwater, I think you're missing the underlying point of this request. It is not to test the Folcrom, but rather to try and determine if the attributes you mention are a combination of the analog summing + GAMA, or solely passing audio through the GAMA.

Perhaps you could try summing internally and just run your stereo mix out through the GAMA. Wouldn't take much time, only the length of the song to try.

IIRC, I believe it was Bob Katz who mentioned that simply running a mix through a preamp has basically the same result as passive analog summing + same preamp used for makeup gain...

I don't have a Folcrom or I would try it myself.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Guru
Welcome to the past.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #49
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➑️
Use the other 6 ins on the Fulcrom for hardware reverb returns, use some of the left over Apogee outputs to send to the reverbs.

Great idea, Jules!!! Thanks! I don't have any hardware verb....today... But, I've been eyeing a PCM****..
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #50
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Welcome to the past.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
LOL! I know. Late bloomer.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #51
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi ➑️
Darkwater, I think you're missing the underlying point of this request. It is not to test the Folcrom, but rather to try and determine if the attributes you mention are a combination of the analog summing + GAMA, or solely passing audio through the GAMA.

Perhaps you could try summing internally and just run your stereo mix out through the GAMA. Wouldn't take much time, only the length of the song to try.
I appreciate what you're saying and I totally understand. What I fail to see is how running through a preamp could REMOVE distortion. When summing ITB, the lack of definition, of space around each instrument, is obvious. It's hard to imagine a preamp would do anything but amplify that aspect, while adding it's own sonic color. But, maybe I'm wrong and I'm happy to try the experiment when I have the time. I'm sure someone else has done this before, though.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #52
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Two Questions...

1. Does there exist, in this forum or any other forum, a down-loadable A/B comparison between an ITB mix and the Fulcrum or Neve 8816 or any of the summing boxes?

2. Way are people afraid to post anything? If it really is, what did you say, a HUGE difference, let's hear it!
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #53
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd ➑️
Way are people afraid to post anything? If it really is, what did you say, a HUGE difference, let's hear it!
I dunno abou you but patching and un patching and re setting the layout of a PT sesssion - burning two mixes and then making MP3's of them then uploading them.. is a lot of work, or at least a little time consuming.

Hats of to the folks that do all that type of stuff here! I could never be bothered myself...
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #54
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SeanG's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd ➑️
Two Questions...

1. Does there exist, in this forum or any other forum, a down-loadable A/B comparison between an ITB mix and the Fulcrum or Neve 8816 or any of the summing boxes?

2. Way are people afraid to post anything? If it really is, what did you say, a HUGE difference, let's hear it!
http://www.vintageking.com/site/files/sumshoot.htm

No Folcrom and no ITB mix... but a lot of other summers directly compared.

They all sound different so you can assume the ITB or Folcrom with make up gain would also. As far as what is better, that’s a matter of opinion.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #55
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Don't get me wrong Jules, I get that it's going to take some time to do, but NO ONE HAS DONE THIS?
In the history of Gearslutz, NO ONE. It just seems odd to me.

Surely, if people believed in it that much someone would have completed a test by now.
These boxes have been around for years, I truly want to hear the difference.

I have been mixing completely in the box for years and my friends who got the summing boxes were not impressed and ended up selling the boxes.
That's why I am curious to hear the HUGE difference.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #56
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you, Sean... I am on my way to the website.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #57
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➑️
I dunno abou you but patching and un patching and re setting the layout of a PT sesssion - burning two mixes and then making MP3's of them then uploading them.. is a lot of work, or at least a little time consuming.
I most circumstances I'd agree with you on this being a PITA, Jules.

But, in this particular case (as the Folcrom mix is patched and done), all it would take is to option + change outputs to analog 1 & 2, and print again...

Right?
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd ➑️
Don't get me wrong Jules, I get that it's going to take some time to do, but NO ONE HAS DONE THIS?
In the history of Gearslutz, NO ONE. It just seems odd to me.
Welcome aboard, but you're a little late to the party, Tony.

It has been done, a few times and with surprising results. Search around for the old threads...

We've been arguing this stuff for half a decade!
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi ➑️
Darkwater, I think you're missing the underlying point of this request. It is not to test the Folcrom, but rather to try and determine if the attributes you mention are a combination of the analog summing + GAMA, or solely passing audio through the GAMA.

Perhaps you could try summing internally and just run your stereo mix out through the GAMA. Wouldn't take much time, only the length of the song to try.

IIRC, I believe it was Bob Katz who mentioned that simply running a mix through a preamp has basically the same result as passive analog summing + same preamp used for makeup gain...

I don't have a Folcrom or I would try it myself.
Exactly....



I have NOT tested this but my theory is (and until I have my Tonelux rig finished it will have to remain a theory only unless you can help Darkwarter) that there is no problem with digital summing.

I am not questioning that you are hearing improvement from the Folcrom, the question is what is causing the improvements are you hearing. As blackcatdigi said, are the improvements coming from "summing" or are they coming from the added pleasing distortion of the preamps and hardware. To rule out that the improvements are coming from external summing try just sending the whole digital summed bus to the Folcrom.
Old 5th January 2007 | Show parent
  #60
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi ➑️
I most circumstances I'd agree with you on this being a PITA, Jules.

But, in this particular case (as the Folcrom mix is patched and done), all it would take is to option + change outputs to analog 1 & 2, and print again...

Right?
life's too short! heh
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