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toggle switch issue
Old 8th March 2014
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
toggle switch issue

having an issue with the toggle switch on my carvin dc100. when I flip to one side, I get no sound. if I stick the tip of the pencil to increase the distance between the two metal pieces, I get sound. I've put some DeoxIT 5 in between and around, hasn't fix the problem.

I'm a bit technically challenged, and welcome input as to what you call those metal pieces.

I see that there's a shorter piece, and the longer piece which touches the toggle switch itself, and there appears to be something affixed on the inside of those pieces, and apparently they need to be apart to function. in case it's not clear, I'm not talking about the gap between the two longer metal pieces, but rather the longer metal piece the toggle switch is switched toward in the pic, and the shorter one that runs parallel, but only comes up to the bottom of the o shaped-ring that house is the toggle switch. thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
toggle switch issue-1393796486423.jpg   toggle switch issue-1393796571545.jpg  
Old 8th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
The active pickup when the toggle is in that position is going through the other pair of blades, on the bottom side of the picture. The toggle pushes apart the blades on the top, breaking the connection on that pickup.

I'm guessing that pushing the pencil in there is moving something else which is completing the connection. Try squeezing the switch body together, or poking around at the connections to the switch and see if you can get it to pass signal that way.

Also, when the toggle is in the middle position, are both pickups on?
Old 8th March 2014 | Show parent
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq ➑️


Also, when the toggle is in the middle position, are both pickups on?
I'll try what you recommended. When in the middle, it's just the one pickup, ie, the same pickup regardless if in the middle or just the one side that works...thanks, I'll try and mess with it tomorrow.
Old 8th March 2014
  #4
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear advocate ➑️
having an issue with the toggle switch on my carvin dc100. when I flip to one side, I get no sound. if I stick the tip of the pencil to increase the distance between the two metal pieces, I get sound. I've put some DeoxIT 5 in between and around, hasn't fix the problem.

I'm a bit technically challenged, and welcome input as to what you call those metal pieces.

I see that there's a shorter piece, and the longer piece which touches the toggle switch itself, and there appears to be something affixed on the inside of those pieces, and apparently they need to be apart to function. in case it's not clear, I'm not talking about the gap between the two longer metal pieces, but rather the longer metal piece the toggle switch is switched toward in the pic, and the shorter one that runs parallel, but only comes up to the bottom of the o shaped-ring that house is the toggle switch. thanks.
With all due respect, you've got it backwards.
Your problem is the the "two metal pieces" are not actually making contact when they should, although they are so close it LOOKS like contact to your unmagnified vision.

Pencil leads are made of graphite. a form of carbon that conducts electricity.

When you shove tjhe pencil lead between the two contacts it COMPLETES the circuit that previously was not being made by your cheesy Chinese switches that are no longer making contact as they should.

Replace the low quality switch with a proper US made Switchcraft switch, as available from Stew-Mac
Old 8th March 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
That's good thinking on the graphite completing the circuit. However, if that's the case (which it almost certainly is) you're closing the side of the circuit that is supposed to be open in that switch position. In other words you're turning on the same pickup that is on in the other two positions.


That means that it's not necessarily the switch that is the problem-you've an open circuit somewhere before the output of the switch. Worst case is an open coil in the pickup.
Old 8th March 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Try these two things to troubleshoot:

1. With the switch in the same position as your pictures, push the pencil between the other pair of blades, at the bottom. Be sure the graphite is contacting both blades. If this turns the pickup on, replace the switch.

2. With the switch in the middle position, turn the volume control of the non-working pickup all the way down. If this mutes the output of the guitar, either the pickup is bad or the pickup isn't connected properly to the volume pot. Turn it back up and switch to non-working pickup only, then jiggle the wire connecting the pickup to the volume pot to see if you can get intermittent output.
Old 9th March 2014
  #7
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I may have figured out the culprit. The original owner had coil split switches installed, as well as a phase switch installed within a few years after he bought it. He basically converted it into the design of the DC150 if I remember correctly.

When I switched to just the non working pickup and jiggled its split coil switch on the outside of the guitar I got sound, and it stays on.

I realized that coil split switch is wonky and doesn't switch cleanly on and off/back and forth, in fact it practically goes around in a circle. That must be where the circuit is broke.

I'm not certain if the coil split switch for that pickup is on or off (I'll guess on is interpreted as in single coil mode).

For now I'll probably just leave it so I can use all pickup variations except for single coil/humbucker mode (depending on what it's stuck in) on the bridge pickup.

If I want to mess with it, should I try and get to it from outside of the body (it looks like the casing is round except for two 1/8 inch flat areas for a wrench on each side of the casing) or would I need to go from the inside cavity?

Here's pics of the inside cavity and outside switches...the smaller black casing at the bottom is the wonky coil switch, the smaller blue casing above it is the functioning neck pickup coil switch, the larger black casing to the side is the phase switch. The two pics are confusing because they were taken from opposite sides so they are reversed.

I appreciate all the help and knowledge sharing.

One other question, I noticed when the bridge and neck pickup are both on, if I turn the neck pickup volume to zero there is no sound, if I turn the neck volume up, but the bridge volume to zero, I still have sound. Is that a typical design for dual pickups, or is that an indication something is wrong or?

I'll check another guitar to see if it's the same, but if there's a reason for that configuration with dual pickups I'd like to understand why.
Attached Thumbnails
toggle switch issue-1394322097241.jpg   toggle switch issue-1394322177133.jpg  
Old 9th March 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
To replace the switch, you would undo the nut on the face of the guitar, then pull the switch out from the back. If you can solder reasonably well this would be a cheap and easy repair. I doubt it would be expensive if you took it to a shop either.

Turning either volume down should mute the guitar when both pickups are on, so there does appear to be another issue. Does the bridge volume mute the guitar completely when just the bridge pickup is selected?
Old 9th March 2014 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq ➑️
Turning either volume down should mute the guitar when both pickups are on, so there does appear to be another issue. Does the bridge volume mute the guitar completely when just the bridge pickup is selected?
That is not necessarily true. There are two different ways to wire a volume control.

In the common way, turning either all the way down does in fact mute the guitar, as the wipers of the volume pots connect directly to the output jack.

However, there is another way, used in wiring arrangements such as the special wiring on a 3 pickup guitar that uses one volume and a switch for the two outer pickups with a separate volume for the center. In this configuration you don't want turning the center off to mute the two on the switch and vice-versa, so the outer lug of the volume pots connect to the jack and the wiper connects to the pickup. this presents a constant resistance to ground to the output consisting of the parallel resistance of the two pots and varies the amount of signal fed to that connection from each pickup separately; when a control is turned down there is still a resistance between output and ground.

The drawback is that pedals that are sensitive to source impedance are presented with a constant input load.

Of course this wiring scheme can also be used on two pickup guitars if you don't want interaction or want to be able to vary the pickup blend.
Old 9th March 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
But in this case you can see that the pickup in question is wired to the outer lug, and so that volume control should mute the guitar when both pickups are selected.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq ➑️
But in this case you can see that the pickup in question is wired to the outer lug, and so that volume control should mute the guitar when both pickups are selected.
You're right, assuming that the pickups are wired to the correct controls. Given that the wiring is obviously altered I wouldn't assume anything though. If the pickups are wired to the correct controls in the usual manner then one pot could be open.

The single coil/humbucker switch should simply short out the second coil in the pickup in single coil mode. It shouldn't be able to kill the pickup completely.

EDIT: It does not look like a coil switch to me. Maybe a phase switch.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➑️
You're right, assuming that the pickups are wired to the correct controls. Given that the wiring is obviously altered I wouldn't assume anything though. If the pickups are wired to the correct controls in the usual manner then one pot could be open.

The single coil/humbucker switch should simply short out the second coil in the pickup in single coil mode. It shouldn't be able to kill the pickup completely.

EDIT: It does not look like a coil switch to me. Maybe a phase switch.
The OP's description of which switch was which was a little confusing, as the bridge pickup coil tap switch isn't on the bottom. It is, however, the smaller of the two black switches, the one on the right. The coil tap isn't wired the normal way either; rather than shorting out a coil, the common of the switch is connected to the volume control, one of the switch's poles is connected to the junction of the two pickup coils, the other pole to the output of the north coil. So if you lose the switch, you lose the pickup altogether.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq ➑️
The OP's description of which switch was which was a little confusing, as the bridge pickup coil tap switch isn't on the bottom. It is, however, the smaller of the two black switches, the one on the right. The coil tap isn't wired the normal way either; rather than shorting out a coil, the common of the switch is connected to the volume control, one of the switch's poles is connected to the junction of the two pickup coils, the other pole to the output of the north coil. So if you lose the switch, you lose the pickup altogether.
Sorry about the confusion of describing the pic.

Back to my question of how dual humbuckers are wired, my epi les Paul works the same way, if I turn the neck pickup all the way down, I don't get any sound when I'm using both pickups, but if I turn the bridge pickup all the way down I still get volume from the neck pickup.

Thanks, I learned a lot with both of your input. I don't trust myself to solder the coil tap switch but I've got a friend I do trust to do it.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear advocate ➑️
Sorry about the confusion of describing the pic.

Back to my question of how dual humbuckers are wired, my epi les Paul works the same way, if I turn the neck pickup all the way down, I don't get any sound when I'm using both pickups, but if I turn the bridge pickup all the way down I still get volume from the neck pickup.

Thanks, I learned a lot with both of your input. I don't trust myself to solder the coil tap switch but I've got a friend I do trust to do it.
Is it stock? What model is it? I'll have to check that out on my Epi Les Pauls - since I usually play wide open I've never checked... (shame on me, I guess...)
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