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mesa boogie mark V
Old 30th May 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC ➡️
I never understood that either. They have more than enough preamp saturation. I don't think I ever had to push the gain on my Triaxis past 5.0. I miss that thing and sold it for peanuts.
I'm with you, every time I've heard someone talk about having problems dialing in a Mesa someone always chimes in with "you need an OD box to really make it shine" or something like that. I've worked with plenty of Mesa's and not just Rectumfriers and I've never had a problem with not having enough gain. They do take a while to dial in but once you get your sound they get the job done.
Old 31st May 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy79 ➡️
I'm with you, every time I've heard someone talk about having problems dialing in a Mesa someone always chimes in with "you need an OD box to really make it shine" or something like that. I've worked with plenty of Mesa's and not just Rectumfriers and I've never had a problem with not having enough gain. They do take a while to dial in but once you get your sound they get the job done.
it has never worked for me much either, but when you got endorsees like john petrucci who are known for using a bit o tubescreamer it makes the young'ns cream at the shorts and have to do it as well, but as usual it gets taken a bit to far.

i have actually used a gain pedal in front of a boogie w it on a clean channel just to get a different type of gain out of it. w the right pedal it can work very well.
Old 5th June 2009
  #33
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
each of the 3 channels is selectable between 10W, 45W, and 90W. and each can be set individually.
I'd love to know how they manage that.
Old 6th June 2009 | Show parent
  #34
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross ➡️
I'd love to know how they manage that.
not sure what you mean exactly, but there is a toggle switch on the front in each channel section that is selectable.
Old 7th June 2009 | Show parent
  #35
DRC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
it has never worked for me much either, but when you got endorsees like john petrucci who are known for using a bit o tubescreamer it makes the young'ns cream at the shorts and have to do it as well, but as usual it gets taken a bit to far.

i have actually used a gain pedal in front of a boogie w it on a clean channel just to get a different type of gain out of it. w the right pedal it can work very well.
I have never read anywhere that he has (or seen) a tube screamer in front of a TRIAXIS in Petrucci's rig. I know that Hammet uses or did use one in front of his Boogie Mk II C+, but I don't think JP ever did or needed too. That RED 1 Channel has more gain than anyone could ever possibly need before the whole thing turns into a mess. I know there are a lot of Youtube links to JP's gear. Let us know where you found this.
Old 7th June 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
the combo is around 2400 and the head is around 2100
I have mine on the way! The head is $2000 and the combo is $2100.
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #37
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC ➡️
I have never read anywhere that he has (or seen) a tube screamer in front of a TRIAXIS in Petrucci's rig. I know that Hammet uses or did use one in front of his Boogie Mk II C+, but I don't think JP ever did or needed too. That RED 1 Channel has more gain than anyone could ever possibly need before the whole thing turns into a mess. I know there are a lot of Youtube links to JP's gear. Let us know where you found this.
he hasnt used the triaxis in quite a few years now. went from there to the mark iV to the road king and lonestar, back to the mark IV and lonestar and now also using a mark V, not sure if replacing the IV with it or what. he has been known for using a tubescreamer for quite a while though.

pic 1

pic 2

pic 3

article

these are just some quick links
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell ➡️
I have mine on the way! The head is $2000 and the combo is $2100.
guess i was a bit off thought that was what i was told. i just had my buddy order it, did not worry about it to much. but he got an email of shipping confirmation this past week and should have it in the beginning of this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Have him do a review for us and maybe post a few clips......that could be cool!




Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron florentine ➡️
Have him do a review for us and maybe post a few clips......that could be cool!




Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio
sorry, by buddy i meant a friend of mine that owns a music store and is a boogie dealer, had him order it for me. his initial order was 1 combo and 2 heads. the combo has sold, and waiting for the heads, 1 is mine and 1 is sold to someone in houston. but i have a project i am waiting for it to do some reamping. will post some clips.
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
not sure what you mean exactly, but there is a toggle switch on the front in each channel section that is selectable.

Right, but what's going on in the power amp section when you step on the channel-select footswitch that allows it to go from a true 10 watts rms to 90 watts rms? Usually that involves disabling some tubes (at the very least), no? I'm trying to figure out how MESA/Boogie gets around risking high voltages arcing over relay contacts, or else non-instantaneous power output changes.
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #42
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
They explain on their website, basically yes it drops a couple of tubes.

Mesa Boogie Mark Five Guitar Amplifier

About half way down there's a section "POWER MULTI_WATT(tm)" that sort of gives a laymans explanation of it.
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #43
DRC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
he hasnt used the triaxis in quite a few years now. went from there to the mark iV to the road king and lonestar, back to the mark IV and lonestar and now also using a mark V, not sure if replacing the IV with it or what. he has been known for using a tubescreamer for quite a while though.

I wonder if he was using the Mark IV's on Metropolis Part II? I didn't like the album from front to back but his rhythm tone on "overture" was really good.
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC ➡️
I wonder if he was using the Mark IV's on Metropolis Part II? I didn't like the album from front to back but his rhythm tone on "overture" was really good.
scenes from a memory is by far still my favorite album! overture and home and quite the standouts on it. saw them about 4 times on that tour including a one off show in phoenix before the tour actually started. a killer show, mess ups and all. talked to petrucci a bit a while back and he remembered the show well

that album to my knowledge is all mark IV on the heavy rhythm and was recorded with the original builds of the first ernie ball guitars. i honestly dont know what was used for the clean guitars though
Old 8th June 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross ➡️
Right, but what's going on in the power amp section when you step on the channel-select footswitch that allows it to go from a true 10 watts rms to 90 watts rms? Usually that involves disabling some tubes (at the very least), no? I'm trying to figure out how MESA/Boogie gets around risking high voltages arcing over relay contacts, or else non-instantaneous power output changes.
here is the text that the link was posted a bit back

they have been doing this for a while now and the roadkings had a similar layout only you could select the actual tubes you wanted individually for each channel on the output side 4-6l6's and 2-el34's and how many of them used together.

POWER: MULTI-WATT™

The bottom 3 position mini toggle in each Channel (lower left corner) is the MULTI-WATT™ Power feature that determines the amount (wattage) and type (configuration) of power each preamp Channel will be coupled with to create a classic sound. Any amplifier’s sound is 50% preamp and 50% power, so this switch is responsible for a large part of a given Channel’s personality and feel. The choices repeat for all 3 Channels and they are 90 W, 45, and 10 W. Using the switch is simple… just select the power you want for each Channel, keeping in mind that the greatest headroom, focus and authority will always be found in the 90 watt position. That’s how to use it, but for those who want the full story, here it is.

Since 1981 Simul-Class™ Power has been the heart and soul of the MARK Series amplifiers, imparting its sweet, musical character onto any sound in the vast library of the now classic MARK legacy. Cleans that shimmer with transparent layers of sweet delicate highs, while the bottom end breathes a warm fundamental under a bed of rich low mid ambience. Never harsh - always fat, the Simul lead tone is the quintessential single-note solo sound that is best described with a human trait…vocal.

This patented way of wiring an output section with two (or more) pair of output tubes combines two different styles of wiring configurations to arrive at a blend that showcases the best attributes of both.

In Simul-Class™, one pair of output tubes is wired in the more efficient, cooler running CLASS A/B PENTODE configuration, which produces the greater portion of power and headroom while running cooler. This was the popular way of wiring amplifiers from about the early ‘60’s forward - chosen for its efficient use of tubes, greater power and reliability (recently a quest for the sweetest low-watt circuits triggered a resurgence of amps wired in CLASS A). The only sonic penalty for its greater power (Class A/B Pentode wiring) is that it can have a tendency to bring forward the harsher odd-order harmonic content. The Simul solution; add a pair of tubes running in the less efficient, but infinitely sweeter CLASS A TRIODE configuration. This style of wiring produces far less power out of a pair of tubes while creating more heat, but it emphasizes the even- order sweeter harmonics and transitions to clip with a soft, rich purring quality like no other.

The MARK 5 presents you with two ways to utilize this power. 90 WATTS combines the two wiring styles to deliver the maximum power and headroom. It is substantially sweeter and warmer, and is little more scooped than a standard 100 Watt amp, yet with plenty of punch and authority. 45 WATTS shuts down the middle pair of output tubes wired in CLASS AB and allows you to operate the output section in just the CLASS A mode for a perfect lower wattage range that clips sweeter and earlier, and yet is still plenty powerful enough to play out in medium sized venues.

Combining these two opposite styles of wiring in one amplifier gives you the best of vintage and modern amplifier styles. Headroom and power are there when you need it… but there is always a naturally pleasing and musically curvaceous quality to the sound that is magic to your ears and to your hands. Simul feels great and is inspiring to play!

And finally, the MULTI-WATT™ feature allows you to switch down to 10 watts of pure CLASS A TRIODE wired in a Single-Ended configuration. This is the ultimate low wattage output section that captures the essence of the best vintage circuits. Here, the 2nd Harmonic (an octave above the note played) is allowed to pass freely through the circuit, putting a magical halo around the notes that shines and rings with beyond-vintage soul.

These three power choices give you ultimate flexibility as to the styles and venues the MARK 5 can adapt to instantly and in fact, it’s like having three separate amps in one case - each having the perfect amount of power for a different application. And when you combine the power of the separate PREAMP Channels, the combinations of EQ and the POWER options, you have the most comprehensive collection of tube amplifiers ever brought together in one chassis. That’s a bold statement; but after you spend some time exploring the combinations we’re sure you’ll feel the same.
Old 10th June 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
well got 'er sittin here beside me plugged into a mesa roadster 2x12 side by side with my road king swappin between the cabinet.

initial thoughts....

VERY nice layout and most usable boogie imo opionion made to date. every channel and voicing is completely usable, though oddly the extreme setting on chnl 3 is my least fav so far.

channel 1 is killer, the tweed setting is amazing, had my strat in it rockin out some blues and sounded very nice, can get shimmery to dirty very and actually responds to touch very well unlike a lot of boogies.

channel 2 is the oddball. mark i does not belong on this channel. the first 2 voicings edge and crunch sound very midrangey, bit of saturated tones, then the mark voicing is scooped, WAY lower in volume. and can get flat out heavy. i also say this that the mark i voicing sounds GREAT, just does not match the other 2 voicings.

channel 3 kicks a$% , the mark IIc+ sounds very...alive i guess you could say. have a lot of range with this channel. the mark IV is exactly as expected. keep hearing it is less gain than the actual IV but has not been much an issue to a lot of people. i like it a lot!!! the extreme was just a bit much it seemed. could not find a tone i liked out of it. sure it will take some time and experimenting, it is a boogie.

side by side with a rectifier was interesting. the mark is WAY tighter and more focused than the rec. did not have no wheres near the amount of low end of the rec either, but the rec is always has more than enough to spare. the mark has quite a bit less saturation than the rec as well. still feels WAAY heavy if need be. the rec feels more powerful overall but the mark is just more pleasurable to listen to and easier on the ears.

very happy so far. obviously need to give it a bit more time to dig in it more.

will try to get some stuff posted fairly soon. will be using a royer 121, sm57, api pre's>vintech x73i eq's> api a2d converters. so a fairly nice chain
Old 26th June 2009 | Show parent
  #47
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darkwater's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm hot on this amp right now....

Old 26th June 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Old 26th June 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell ➡️
I have mine on the way! The head is $2000 and the combo is $2100.
This absolutely sucks for us europeans. The best price you can get for it over here is around €3,175 (for the combo). Yeah you're reading right. That currently translates to US$4,471. More than double the price just because of shipping and some taxes? For that amount of money, I could book a flight, look for a dealer selling me two of them and arranging whatever "special deal" (in terms of shipping and taxes), sell one of the amps and be done for 500 Euros expense at best. No wonder people are really doing everything to cheat with taxes and customs.
Seriously, european music shops are all run by criminals, simply because there's absolutely *no* way shipping, taxes, customs and what not could even remotely make up for such a horrible price difference on a single amp.

Fwiw, I own a MkIV and quite love it, but both the green and red channels leave something to be desired for my personal needs (I love the yellow channel). A MkV could be the defenite answer, but I will never pay that much money for it, and right now I don't have enough time to arrange a flight to the USA, some dealer search and what not. In addition, I don't think a MkV would accept 220V, so I might have to get the PSU replaced, too.

Cheers
Sascha
Old 26th June 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➡️
cool lil vid, looks like you guys had a blast

the channel 1 is nothing like other marks for sure, it is AMAZING! though the tweed voicing has an attraction to it, have been finding it just a bit TO much, to clean for tracking with a lot. the clean voicing is quite sweet though. channel 1 also SHINES on 10 w. starts to break up and can actually overdrive like no other boogie i have heard. sounds great.

you never mentioned the mark 1 voicing on channel 2. it is CRAZY. really i think it should be on a different channel. sounds nothing like the other 2 voicings on that channel. can have a creamy lead channel or a pretty ballsy distortion channel w it. the other 2 voicing on that channel lead to more of a almost 80's hair metal distortion (marshally) but w/o the awful midrange.

the combo was nice when i was playing it, but the head smokes it for sure. the combo felt a bit tubby with the open back, palm muted notes could get a bit tubby. i am running my head through closed back combo's and really tightens it up.

been tracking and reamping like a madman through it lately and really enjoying it. still a bit of geting used to after years of rectifier use and abuse! sad thing is, my road king kinda sounds like ass to me now.........

my biggest issues i had when tracking is the clean channel, especially the tweed voicing gets a bit hissy. actually completely ruined tracking with it for me at first. my dr z was so much quiter!!

i ended up putting a tube package together from eurotubes and got them in and been using it for about a week now. SO much quieter and a bit more gain and tighter. which for me i wanted on channel 3. it is got a descent amount of gain, but does not have that over the top grind if you want it. i am now a bit closer there is a serious notable difference in channel 1 as well. a bit chimier and the clean voicing took on a whole new sound and is beautiful. but imo opinion boogie tubes are the weakest link and have never owned one w/o replacing them asap. i also grabbed a couple kt77 tubes wich are a slight variation of the el34 to pop in there. want to get a couple weeks hearing the 6l6's before trying them.

still not lovin the extreme voicing on channel 3. the mark iv voicing seems to be just right!
Old 30th June 2009 | Show parent
  #51
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
Gave one a try today, I gotta say the cleans are killer, it virtually out fenders a Fender, absolutely stunning as a clean amp... the only trouble was that I was finding it hard to get that creamy drive from it through any channel, it has the characteristics of clean even at it's most overdriven, which makes for a very articulate sound, but much closer to a Fender than a Marshall in overall tone, it doesn't have that compressed sustain and smoothed out transients. For me that means that I'm not so keen on the driven sounds as they feel a bit cold.

Right now I must say that it would be my clean amp of choice even possibly over a fender, but for gain/drive I think I'd have to go with the a Marshall for it's oh so forgiving fuzzy super saturated feel.
Old 30th June 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
not sure how much of a boogie guy you are, you may know them insided and out but not sure? they are tweaker amps for sure and takes some time to get it dialed in. the mark I is WAY creamy. really nice. also the eq settings are MAJOR players in the tone of this amp. the preset on each channel dialed 1/2 to all the way up is a great place to start and really seems to work on all 3 channels surprisingly well as they all have their own preset. with no eq at all from the preset or the graphic the channels sound kina blahhh the other 2 voicings on channel 2 get quite a way into marshall territory just tighter mids than a marshall.

channel 3 is for the metal lovers though! i have also noticed with tracking it has a lot more saturation than it seems. i keep turning the gain down when multitracking because it gets to be to much, and i am a metal guy

it is definatley more defined and articate if you will than some other boogies and especially in comparison to the rectifiers. but enjoying it more and more for tracking. mixing better than recs for sure! but will also say i am not a marshall lover so could just be a difference in prefered tones?????

also for me, the combo was not flattering, kinda woofy in the lows and for heavier stuff. getting it to a closed back cab made a HUGE difference.

when some time permits i would like to get some clips posted.
Old 30th June 2009 | Show parent
  #53
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
Hah, no I own a mesa, but I certainly don't know it inside out for sure! To me it's a temperamental mystery that always seems tantalizingly close to being solvable but never quite is.

I suppose the biggest thing is that I'm used to a more standard configuration with the low/mid/high rather than Mesa's cascading additive system that has a far greater effect on the final tone or amount of gain than in other amps, where it just sort of reduces the bands, and which I can never really figure out comfortably or remember which way it goes. It just doesn't seem to respond quite how they describe in the manual for me. Actually I find that most of the time the (non graphic) eq isn't all that responsive with a large change at the very start of the sweep between 0 and 1 and then very little from then on, but perhaps my ears are just atrophied from too many rock concerts :D

The sound was very awesome though even though I couldn't get that tight heavy distortion that I was after personally, it felt very organic and would kick ass for anything from country and surf through to blues and classic rock. It's a totally desirable amp no two ways about it, but I'm not sure I could justify it for myself only for those wonderful cleans and crunches... then again maybe I could also buy a nice compression pedal and bung that in front for those tones, not sure how it would react though to pedals.
Old 30th June 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie ➡️
then again maybe I could also buy a nice compression pedal and bung that in front for those tones, not sure how it would react though to pedals.
I doubt that'd work. In case you're after Marshall-ish tones, the "sort of compression" they're famous for isn't happening in the preamping stage but in the tube power amp section once you drive it hard. To get you there, you either need something such as a load box (Marshall SE-100 or some Palmer stuff), or, in case you want to keep the power amp more or less neutral (which would be recommended in case you're using, say, some digital FX unit in the loop), a smooth compressor sitting in the loop straight after the send. Ideally, this would probably be an Empirical Labs Distressor, but then, that one certainly is only for those of us with the big wallets.

- Sascha
Old 1st July 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
Hmm, that's a shame, I had expected the amps pres to be much more overdriven/gainy and less crunchy, with a much tighter tone, but the bass seemed a bit... flubby? Can that be fixed (this was using the head on a halfstack), when I tried it the graphic EQ seemed to be tamer than I remember Marks being in the past, but that could totally be perception, and I couldn't quite manage to dial that out. I was testing it at super low volumes, though I wouldn't expect that to so drastically affect the amount of gain unless it really depends on pushing the power section to get up there, but maybe that was the reason.
Old 1st July 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie ➡️
[...] though I wouldn't expect that to so drastically affect the amount of gain unless it really depends on pushing the power section to get up there, but maybe that was the reason.
Seriously, pushing the PA section is what it's all about IMO. At least it's what's making up for the differences between "good" and "great" tone.
During the last 1-2 years a few friends and me have been doing more or less intensive tests to kinda prove this (and hm, it wasn't even necessary as it's quite common knowledge). Almost any amp is starting to sound a whole LOT better as soon as you drive the PA stage a bit harder - even regardless of whether you insert a digital FX unit in its loop or not. Sometimes (especially on amps such as Marshalls or Voxes) the differences are like night and day. My early 90s Fender "The Twin" (the one with the red pots) sounds like **** at lower volumes. But it starts to sound quite great once the overall volume is raised (too bad it's too loud for any club stages in that case already). With my MkIV it's a little different as it allows to set the output section to half power, triode operation and what not. But again, those very settings make up for a world of a difference. If you really need those "organic" sounding overdrives, do yourself a favour and purchase some loadbox (the mentioned Marshall SE-100 apparently still being king, but the Palmers aren't too bad, either). You wouldn't even have to bring it to "real" overdrive territory as it seems (so you could still use some digital FX unit in the loop), just a somewhat hotter driven PA section seems to be what it's all about.

- Sascha
Old 2nd July 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck ➡️
This absolutely sucks for us europeans. The best price you can get for it over here is around €3,175 (for the combo). Yeah you're reading right. That currently translates to US$4,471. More than double the price just because of shipping and some taxes? For that amount of money, I could book a flight, look for a dealer selling me two of them and arranging whatever "special deal" (in terms of shipping and taxes), sell one of the amps and be done for 500 Euros expense at best. No wonder people are really doing everything to cheat with taxes and customs.
Seriously, european music shops are all run by criminals, simply because there's absolutely *no* way shipping, taxes, customs and what not could even remotely make up for such a horrible price difference on a single amp.

Fwiw, I own a MkIV and quite love it, but both the green and red channels leave something to be desired for my personal needs (I love the yellow channel). A MkV could be the defenite answer, but I will never pay that much money for it, and right now I don't have enough time to arrange a flight to the USA, some dealer search and what not. In addition, I don't think a MkV would accept 220V, so I might have to get the PSU replaced, too.

Cheers
Sascha
look at the bright side, you get to wait in line to see a doctor. I kinda want to demo the MK V a few days before I take the plunge. I will need a good return policy.
Old 2nd July 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
mdme_sadie's Avatar
I'm going to go back and give it another try tomorrow, now armed with a little more knowledge about the amp and it's controls. Assuming I have a better session with it the main thing I'll want to find out is whether it's (alleged) versatility goes as far as covering all the sounds I get out of my Express 5:25, if so I might do the exchange as that channel 1 was truly lovely.
Old 2nd July 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Maniac
 
sethmeister's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom ➡️
i ended up putting a tube package together from eurotubes and got them in and been using it for about a week now. SO much quieter and a bit more gain and tighter. which for me i wanted on channel 3. it is got a descent amount of gain, but does not have that over the top grind if you want it. i am now a bit closer there is a serious notable difference in channel 1 as well. a bit chimier and the clean voicing took on a whole new sound and is beautiful. but imo opinion boogie tubes are the weakest link and have never owned one w/o replacing them asap. i also grabbed a couple kt77 tubes wich are a slight variation of the el34 to pop in there. want to get a couple weeks hearing the 6l6's before trying them.

still not lovin the extreme voicing on channel 3. the mark iv voicing seems to be just right!

Hey, man, what tubes specifically are in that package? I've been thinking about doing some tube swapping in my Mk IV and your descriptions sound like exactly what I'm after.
Old 2nd July 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethmeister ➡️
Hey, man, what tubes specifically are in that package? I've been thinking about doing some tube swapping in my Mk IV and your descriptions sound like exactly what I'm after.
here is a link to the tube packages for the mark iv from eurotubes. i basically just got the 6l6 high gain option package and then had to add on preamp tubes for the mark V. i also got the kt77's to try out though i still have not put them in yet. this weekend is looking like a possibility of doing that though.
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