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New guitar players: 90% give up with a year. Why ?
Old 2nd October 2022
  #151
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Not trying to hijack, but not enough for a whole thread...
What are people's favorite capos? I only use Shubb C1. Super easy on/easy off.
I notice a lot of love for that G7th thing.
Old 2nd October 2022
  #152
Lives for gear
 
mdme_sadie's Avatar
I’m mystified that everyone is still going on about barre chords as if they were ever a barre for entry…

Look in any field 90% attrition rate within the first year would be considered normal to good.

Think about all the paraphernalia probably cluttering your own houses from forgotten hobbies and crafts. Maybe there’s a kayak somewhere, snorkeling gear, maybe canning jars, empty sketchbooks, skateboards, knitting needles, sewing machines, fishing rods, woodworking tools, packs of seeds and a propagator… who cares.

The point is I bet for most of those you used them once or twice excited at all the things you were going to do then figured it was more effort than it was worth to you and off into storage it goes. Even if you did do it for a while most likely, as in 9 out of 10 times (90%) of the time it’s less than a years worth before you list interest or other priorities came up. You just didn’t get bitten by the nerdy bug enough to keep at it.

Barre chords are the weirdest thing that guitarists try to create a mythos over, for a very small number of people they’re a little bit difficult due to how much meat is on their fingers, but most find them easy enough after a couple of attempts and never think about them again at all. It’s like we pretend they’re difficult to try and justify that there’s some challenge other than feel, hand/eye coordination and general finger strength and dexterity involved in playing the instrument. They are not what’s stopping people from playing guitar, just normal life is.

And it’s ok. There’s nothing wrong with the guitar or our choices to stick with it (or not).
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #153
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
[. . .] What are people's favorite capos? I only use Shubb C1. Super easy on/easy off. I notice a lot of love for that G7th thing.
Maybe try something like the WOTE 5 peeps?
Upside : A lot more flexibility than your Shubb C1.
Downside : Not much elbow room, kinda bulky to haul around, expensive to feed.
If all of that is a bit too much, I can recommend a more compact model.

Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #154
Gear Maniac
 
G650's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Not trying to hijack, but not enough for a whole thread...
What are people's favorite capos? I only use Shubb C1. Super easy on/easy off.
I notice a lot of love for that G7th thing.
My only capo is a Johnny Cash model from like 30 years ago and I can't remember who made it. I really like it though

Edit:It's the Dunlop one
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #155
Lives for gear
 
RGJ22's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Not trying to hijack, but not enough for a whole thread...
What are people's favorite capos? I only use Shubb C1. Super easy on/easy off.
I notice a lot of love for that G7th thing.
I have got 6 Shubbs and 2 Keysers. These are both very sufficient. Pulling the strings back down in tune only takes a few seconds and become second nature. I do appreciate technology and improved performance, but $75-$300 for a capo makes it hard to pull the trigger on considering I don't have performance issues with Shubb. That said, the G7 looks very smart.
Old 2nd October 2022
  #156
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Didn't read all the pages here, so I don't know if this has been said. But I'm not sure if a 10% "stick-rate" is all that bad compared with other things, musical and non-musical. How many people who pick up a tennis racket for the first time, or oil paints, or an SLR, stick with it after a year?
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #157
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie ➡️
I’m mystified that everyone is still going on about barre chords as if they were ever a barre for entry…
Oddly enough, I've been at this guitaring thing for over half a century (started at about 4 or 5), and I only use actual barre chords in very specific circumstances; actually rarely anymore. They're no problem, but I see no point to forming my hand into that position if I don't have to. I don't even find it all that critical to have all six strings sounding very often, as I'm usually playing a variety of limited voicings for any given harmonic moment.

For classical pieces, my hand and wrist would be in that position almost constantly of course, but I don't play that stuff anymore.
Old 2nd October 2022
  #158
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MAXX VADA's Avatar
Re capo's . has anyone noticed if you clamp the capo close and parallel to the forward fret it sounds cleaner than if you clamped in the middle of the forward and rear fret... ( hoping that makes sense )
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #159
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXX VADA ➡️
Re capo's . has anyone noticed if you clamp the capo close and parallel to the forward fret it sounds cleaner than if you clamped in the middle of the forward and rear fret... ( hoping that makes sense )
Sure, just like putting your fingers there makes it easier to play.
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #160
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Oddly enough, I've been at this guitaring thing for over half a century (started at about 4 or 5), and I only use actual barre chords in very specific circumstances; actually rarely anymore. They're no problem, but I see no point to forming my hand into that position if I don't have to. I don't even find it all that critical to have all six strings sounding very often, as I'm usually playing a variety of limited voicings for any given harmonic moment.

For classical pieces, my hand and wrist would be in that position almost constantly of course, but I don't play that stuff anymore.
I agree, It’s dependent on the music. Barre chords are equivalent to playing full two handed chords on a piano. Great for the intro of a dastardly mustache twirling bad guy just before he ties the damsel to the train tracks, mostly used in passing elsewhere. The harmonic content fills out the space too much most of the time, unless there’s lots of space around the chords.

I fret the full barre most of the time though even if I rarely voice it all because it’s no more or less effort than a power chord and it puts my fingers in place to mute what I don’t want, or add what I do.
Old 2nd October 2022 | Show parent
  #161
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXX VADA ➡️
Re capo's . has anyone noticed if you clamp the capo close and parallel to the forward fret it sounds cleaner than if you clamped in the middle of the forward and rear fret... ( hoping that makes sense )
Isn't that the way your supposed to do it?
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #162
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MAXX VADA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pquinn ➡️
Isn't that the way your supposed to do it?
yes it seems to get the best result but you would be amazed at how many guitarists ive seen that dont.
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #163
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
It is not easy to stay motivated to practice on cheap guitars. Fender needed only 40 years to release necks with the 40th-anniversary Squires that play like at least three times more expensive Fenders.
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #164
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u87allen ➡️
Didn't read all the pages here, so I don't know if this has been said. But I'm not sure if a 10% "stick-rate" is all that bad compared with other things, musical and non-musical. How many people who pick up a tennis racket for the first time, or oil paints, or an SLR, stick with it after a year?
Yeah, it's like learning languages. You have to have people to communicate with, or you let it drop. It would not surprise me if start up guitarists who join or start bands early on are the ones who are more likely to stick with it and progress. Progression is the thing that keeps you interested. Stagnation is the thing that makes you drop out.

OTOH, I do know a lot of amazing long-time guitarists... but also quite a few who have been pounding at it for decades, but can neither make it happen, nor give it up. Go to blues jam nights, and you will meet them in droves; players in their 40's, 50's, 60's, who started when they were kids, but still struggle with basics. A quality jam night MC knows them by name, and calls them up in the first hour, or at the deep end of the night when the crowd is thinning.
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #165
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda Starling ➡️
My guess, they buy a cheap guitar with action too high, won't stay in tune has intonation issues. A neck too thick, wrong gauge strings, etc...
So when they start to learn and practice their fingers hurt, it sounds bad, and after a year of mediocre practice and feeling like they aren't getting better they quit.

But on the other hand, I remember a guy I liked in Jr high that wanted to be in a band and his parents bought him a Les Paul Standard, an AC30 AND a Roland 120. After a year he managed to learn U2's I will follow riff - that's it; that's all he could play after a year of lessons. He just wanted to impress me that he was in a band. When his parents learned that I could actually play, they sold the AC30 and Les Paul to me for about 1/3rd what they paid for it 18 months earlier and he went on to become a crime lord running a cat converter theft ring. I did hear he's a singer now...of his prison band

So sometimes, it's because of crappy instruments, and sometimes it's delusions of grandeur unfulfilled; sometimes people just realize it's not for them, i guess.
Todays guitars have pretty good action. But some people have no musical ability, a lot of it is a sense of timing. Glad you got his gear at a reasonable price. You really have to love music, and feel it is important to you.
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #166
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Gruner's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
...A quality jam night MC knows them by name, and calls them up in the first hour, or at the deep end of the night when the crowd is thinning.
All this time I thought they really liked my playing. I was the only one rockin' heavy fuzz on an acoustic 12 string Ovation, 3630 keeping it tight.
Old 3rd October 2022 | Show parent
  #167
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruner ➡️
All this time I thought they really liked my playing. I was the only one rockin' heavy fuzz on an acoustic 12 string Ovation, 3630 keeping it tight.
You're probably truly great, but just smashing their "Woke up this mornin" mold too effectively.
Old 3rd October 2022
  #168
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PdotDdot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The 50's, 60's and 70's had many great bands that were primarily guitar bands. These days it seems much of the mainstream music is electronic - beats and modeling and loops and what have you. You can still find a lot of guitar in Country and Jazz but guitar bands are not driving things like they once were. Maybe that has something to do with why people give up as opposed to sticking with it.

Honestly, I have no idea but this is what I think may be part of the equation. I admit, I'm guessing....
Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #169
Lives for gear
 
Gruner's Avatar
 
Babies too.

How many guitar dreams have been cashed in (along with the guitar) to buy diapers or braces? Game over.
Old 4th October 2022
  #170
Gear Nut
 
People think we 'play' music but it's a lot of work.

Practice. Research. More practice. Rehearse with some other people who may or may not respect your contributions. Play for people who may or may not like you. Move all your stuff around all the time and try to sound like you do when everything is perfect. Be on time. Don't be drunk. Deal with managers who only care about getting through the night. Pay for studio time and try not to party. Tell your [drummer/singer/guitarist] they're not being professional. Etc.

Took me a long time to realize that, as a musician, I make all my mistakes in front of people who tend to not forgive mistakes. And I have relatively thin skin! But I persist …
Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #171
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
I

There are a more distractions now than when I started playing guitar. Video games are much more immersive, social, fun, and gives immediate satisfaction. Social media can be an endless rabbit hole. Guitar driven music is not as important in todays music as it was before and it is no longer a symbol of rebellion and coolness. Electronic music is cheaper and easier to create and can be done more independently. Most DAWs come with a bunch of loops and great sounds. Don’t even need a midi keyboard. One can just click on the Piano roll. That isn’t a dig. I like some electronic music.
Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #172
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
Oddly enough, I've been at this guitaring thing for over half a century (started at about 4 or 5), and I only use actual barre chords in very specific circumstances; actually rarely anymore. They're no problem, but I see no point to forming my hand into that position if I don't have to. I don't even find it all that critical to have all six strings sounding very often, as I'm usually playing a variety of limited voicings for any given harmonic moment.

For classical pieces, my hand and wrist would be in that position almost constantly of course, but I don't play that stuff anymore.
Interesting ... As you may know I am a beginner learning electric guitar (after many years of doing electronic music ).

I have a hunch that barre chords are a definite challenge in learning guitar, and a difficult technique for newbies. Often it is said that barre chords are an unavoidable and required topic to master when learning guitar.

Are you saying that I should not necessarily spend the time and energy to learn barre chords, or that these barre chords are not really necessary to playing electric guitar (my guitar inspiration is in the line of Spacemen 3, the Black Angels, BJM, etc..) ??
Old 4th October 2022
  #173
Lives for gear
 
enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
IMHO barre chords are worth learning even if only dexterity and finger strength are considered, but it is true that many guitarists, even truly great guitarists only rarely use barre chords either by relying on "thumb over" (Hendrix et al) removal of 6th string and adaptive tuning (Keith Richards, Ry Cooder, etc) and inversions (everybody and their brother).
Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #174
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RGJ22's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by time_zone ➡️
Interesting ... As you may know I am a beginner learning electric guitar (after many years of doing electronic music ).

I have a hunch that barre chords are a definite challenge in learning guitar, and a difficult technique for newbies. Often it is said that barre chords are an unavoidable and required topic to master when learning guitar.

Are you saying that I should not necessarily spend the time and energy to learn barre chords, or that these barre chords are not really necessary to playing electric guitar (my guitar inspiration is in the line of Spacemen 3, the Black Angels, BJM, etc..) ??
Based on those musical examples, a basic knowledge and skill set of 3 note power chords will cover your initial needs for years. Since music is not only about skill, a little knowledge and minimal skill can take you far in as far as songwriting is concerned.

Barre chords are not necessary to play guitar, but they are certainty required to learn / understand guitar beyond a point. The actual application or execution of barre chords is minimal in real time application with advanced players as voicings are more commonly articulated using 3-4 note inversions (grips) with unwanted notes muted. It's specific and focused for harmonic and color direction or purposes. Part of the muting can happen using the barre.

But the knowledge of which notes to play and which notes are being omitted is where the understanding comes from. You don't don't have to play the chords, but being able to see them is the liberation and basic command of the process. In truth, the better you get, the bigger the fretboard gets and the more you realize how endless it is.
Old 4th October 2022
  #175
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Barre chords.
I'm not the expert here on barre chords, yet as someone who has played mostly in the open position until about 2 years ago, let me say what barre chords have done for me.
Firstly imagine a keyboard and how many keys there are. Thinking in terms of a fretboard, if you never play outside the open position, your range is about 2 octaves, or thereabouts, but that's just for single notes. If you only ever play the open form of D major, then maybe we are talking about only a single octave range.
There's many a great tune that can be played in 1 octave, yet learning some barre chords gave me options.
Open D maj is xx0232, then there is the slightly odd xx4232 D maj which I will skip over here, and then there is x57775.
Now what this allows you to do is start from xx0232, play say a G maj at 320003 and then go up to D maj at x57775. On the way back down you an play A maj at 577655 and back to xx0232. ( I hope I got that right, I think I got this right)

It just breaks the monotony of just playing xx0232 to 320003 and back to xx0232 all the time.
This is just a start and mostly how I use barre chords. I don't often completely leave the open position behind.

Another use of barre chords, other than just playing slightly odd keys, is to transpose songs from one key to another. This is something I've been doing for less than a year, and honestly its an exercise as much as anything, yet it is developing and expanding my knowledge.
Actually, what got me started on this transposing thing is simply learning songs with key changes.
A key change may be a gimmick sometimes, yet sometimes a gimmick may be what the song needs.

EDIT again: And I will agree with RGJ22 above. what I have written is the concept of Barre chords, yet in practise, many great players are just using 3 and 4 note chords and not full 5-6 string barre chords.

Last edited by AnthonyG; 4th October 2022 at 01:04 PM..
Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #176
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vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Unless all you want to play is folk or country, you'll need bar chords. Failing that there's always bass. Pretty much anyone can manage that.
Old 4th October 2022
  #177
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ah! I'm opposite, I think. I skim read so I may have missed some salient points. I always taught that power chords weren't actually chords. Very simple. As a teacher I spent no time on them. They were one lesson. And a bunch of power chord tunes to keep the student occupied.

And for the life of me I don't know what the problem with barre chords is. When I learned my first barre chord it was OVER. You mean these things are moveable?? I can play the same shape and it's a G chord or an A or B? Same shape. Then this other shape can be a C, C#, D Eb, E???? Wow! THAT'S what opened that door for me. I learned a WHOLE MESS of barre and moveable chords asap. Sure the F full barre is challenging. So what? Learn it first as a partial barre. Just barre the first two frets and mute the 6th string. The 5th is optional. Really it's a piece of cake. Or if you can't do that just play the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings, muting the rest, until you can eventually get the hang of the F barre.

Learning a musical instrument takes work. We have a couple of generations where working at something is just not an option. No patience. Maybe it started with Nintendo, Gameboy, Dreamcast, youtube, smartphones. It's Idiocracy in real life. Things have to be dumbed down and spoon fed and students have to be pampered and coddled. To a certain degree, sure. But there should be limits. It used to be mom bought an upright piano and you HAD to take lessons and you HAD to practice 30 minutes everyday. Liking it wasn't an option. Brushing your teeth and doing homework in many families, isn't an option either.

Now it's, "You can't make him do that!" Why the hell not? Our boys wanted to learn karate. We made a pact. You have to do this for a year. Do your drills daily and show up for every class. You still want to do it? They did. After a year they were done. But they learned something in the process. Maybe it was discipline.

If you want to do something, YOU have to decide that you want to do it and make a pact with yourself - and your teacher if you have one. Yes your fingers are going to hurt. Yes you're not going to want to practice. Yes you're not going to want to make your lessons. But if you honor your pact you WILL be a better guitar player and you will have learned some kind of discipline you can take with you in other things, without going to boot camp or joining the military industrial complex.
Old 4th October 2022
  #178
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Progger's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hell yes, Henry! I agree with every single one of those points.

....Except the one about Nintendo... I'm a lifelong fan and always will be! Plenty of time for both practice and Zelda as long as you love them both genuinely.

(Not only that, Nintendo games turned into my first accidental transcription projects... when I was seven years old I figured out most of the music to Zelda II without realizing I was aurally learning the basics of modes and functional harmony! Some of the best soundtrack music we have in 2022 is coming from Japanese games. But that's way off topic, I apologize!!)

Old 4th October 2022 | Show parent
  #179
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger ➡️
Hell yes, Henry! I agree with every single one of those points.

....Except the one about Nintendo... I'm a lifelong fan and always will be! Plenty of time for both practice and Zelda as long as you love them both genuinely.

(Not only that, Nintendo games turned into my first accidental transcription projects... when I was seven years old I figured out most of the music to Zelda II without realizing I was aurally learning the basics of modes and functional harmony! Some of the best soundtrack music we have in 2022 is coming from Japanese games. But that's way off topic, I apologize!!)

LOL!! It's TRUE! Some of the best. I've had students ask me to teach them some video game music and I've had many perform others for their recitals. Different world. LOL.
Old 4th October 2022
  #180
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I was lucky when I started. I had my vocal music teacher in middle school (we called it junior high in those days) took me aside when she found out I wanted to learn an instrument. Mrs Warren was a pianist. She told me music is a lifetime dedication. She still practiced every day. She said if she doesn't have time she'll still manage to do some scale exercises for at least 20 minutes and showed me. I was amazed. "You practice EVERY DAY??" And she was REALLY OLD! I mean she was 40 or even 50! LOL. She studied with Darius Milhaud. She was a regular pianist for classical singers and small orchestras. This was important for me because it gave me a good and realistic idea what being a musician was all about BEFORE I started.
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