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When did seling at full list price become common?
Old 24th January 2022 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
I got a 2022 Hyundai Santa Fe Luxury Hybrid on a lease and I'm pretty sure the car is 55k cad (44k usd) but with the supply chain issues, there weren't any other new cars on any lot. Great Suv with lots of space but I overpaid (I pay 1100 a month with Insurance). I almost got a Mercedes GLB but they only had a demo model available.
I had the unfortunate situation of needing to buy a car quickly in Sept. I needed an SUV for my job and in my search was getting really depressed at the low inventories and high pricing. Dealers were adding fees of $5K to $10K over MSRP. Phone calls to dealerships inquiring about online inventory showed that they weren't up to date.

During the search I found used cars to be ridiculously priced.

I wanted a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. The 2022 Santa Fe plug-in looked perfect but the release kept getting delayed. Others I'd consider were the RAV4, Ford Escape, Honda...(Mitsubishi, Nissan, Chevy are a NOGO for me)

So. I took a few days off figuring I'd have to physically visit a lot of dealerships and maybe back off on the size a little. After seeing a Tuscon online at a dealership I decided to physically drive there to inquire and see if I could fit what I needed in it. It was sold. I turned around and guess what? 4 Santa Fe plug-ins. Not even on the website yet. I got the dealership fee knocked off due to CostCo membership. Never felt so lucky to have paid ONLY MSRP. Not cheap.

BTW. All 4 of those Santa Fe's were gone the next day. One while I was still there doing the paperwork. I love this car. Only 1 fill up since the September 30 purchase date. My electric bill...well, still cheaper than the gas until these recent huge SDG&E price increases. Not sure now but can always go hybrid only which still keeps me in the ~35MPG range. Not bad for a car this size.
Old 24th January 2022
  #32
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arichlsss ➡️
I just got 10% off list and free shipping on a new 33609N
That's what I've always expected for doing them the favor of walking in the door. The real problem is that the internet has both unified and decentralized the market, making it possible, even easy, to impose universal pricing. I always thought that price fixing was illegal, but the internet knows no law, I guess.
Old 24th January 2022 | Show parent
  #33
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterViewer ➡️
Probably mostly. Yes, for the most part. He is not really catering to the GC crowd and sells used for his customer base. Sells all band and orchestral instruments, etc. and has for many years. A full music store. Mostly all new stuff.
In the case of Gibson, Fender, and others of similar stature, no. Those companies maintain their own distribution networks. Smaller companies use reps who handle many brands - these reps often work for a larger rep company.

I guess you've never worked in a major music store?
Old 24th January 2022 | Show parent
  #34
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I am not referring to a major chain large showrm music store. And yes, I have never worked at a music store of any size.
Old 24th January 2022 | Show parent
  #35
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire ➡️
I had the unfortunate situation of needing to buy a car quickly in Sept. I needed an SUV for my job and in my search was getting really depressed at the low inventories and high pricing. Dealers were adding fees of $5K to $10K over MSRP. Phone calls to dealerships inquiring about online inventory showed that they weren't up to date.

During the search I found used cars to be ridiculously priced.

I wanted a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. The 2022 Santa Fe plug-in looked perfect but the release kept getting delayed. Others I'd consider were the RAV4, Ford Escape, Honda...(Mitsubishi, Nissan, Chevy are a NOGO for me)

So. I took a few days off figuring I'd have to physically visit a lot of dealerships and maybe back off on the size a little. After seeing a Tuscon online at a dealership I decided to physically drive there to inquire and see if I could fit what I needed in it. It was sold. I turned around and guess what? 4 Santa Fe plug-ins. Not even on the website yet. I got the dealership fee knocked off due to CostCo membership. Never felt so lucky to have paid ONLY MSRP. Not cheap.

BTW. All 4 of those Santa Fe's were gone the next day. One while I was still there doing the paperwork. I love this car. Only 1 fill up since the September 30 purchase date. My electric bill...well, still cheaper than the gas until these recent huge SDG&E price increases. Not sure now but can always go hybrid only which still keeps me in the ~35MPG range. Not bad for a car this size.
Glad you like your Santa Fe as well. I switched from a Mercedes GLA to a Santa Fe and the seats are so comfortable, it's amazing. it's like a big pillow. For a Mercedes, you'd have to get the GLE to get all the same features as the Santa Fe luxury hybrid, and it would cost you twice as much.
Old 25th January 2022 | Show parent
  #36
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58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterViewer ➡️
I am not referring to a major chain large showrm music store. And yes, I have never worked at a music store of any size.
I am not talking about large chain stores. I am talking about major INDEPENDENT music stores (many of which no longer exist.)

In the Bay Area these would include Leo's, Spitzer's, Do Wehr's, Bananas At Large, Guitar Showcase, Audio Images Corp, and various others.

If you have not worked at a major store you don't know what the hell you're blabbering about.
Old 25th January 2022 | Show parent
  #37
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
Glad you like your Santa Fe as well. I switched from a Mercedes GLA to a Santa Fe and the seats are so comfortable, it's amazing. it's like a big pillow. For a Mercedes, you'd have to get the GLE to get all the same features as the Santa Fe luxury hybrid, and it would cost you twice as much.
So who the he** makes this "Santa Fe"?
Old 25th January 2022 | Show parent
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
So who the he** makes this "Santa Fe"?
Hyundai. computers rock!
Old 25th January 2022 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
So who the he** makes this "Santa Fe"?
The South Koreans. Best warranty in the industry.

Why are you relapsing into your old angry self? You had a civil spell for a while. Just couldn't gel with it? I love you and your posts John. Always wondering "What's John's opinion?" For knowledge...and entertainment, I guess.

Sorry to hijack the thread. It was topical I thought. Everything electronic is more expensive (and rare), especially cars and, when it comes to hardware, few deals to be found. Software is a whole nother topic. Cost of living is their only excuse. But guess what? They and their employees need cars, too...and electronics...and everything else that depends on it.
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #40
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noah330's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Typical. Gibson did it, now their guitars look good in the shop windows and they sell very few instruments.
False. If Gibson didn’t sell the $6000 Les Paul guitars they wouldn’t make so many of them.

Obviously Epiphone sells more guitars but don’t think for a minute those Murphy Lab or whatever crazy expensive guitars don’t sell.

Depending on where you live they may sit in the shop for a while, which makes sense due to the price being higher, but just visit the Gibson forums and read the NGD threads. Also remember the majority of guitar players don’t post on web forums.
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #41
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 ➡️
False. If Gibson didn’t sell the $6000 Les Paul guitars they wouldn’t make so many of them.

Obviously Epiphone sells more guitars but don’t think for a minute those Murphy Lab or whatever crazy expensive guitars don’t sell.

Depending on where you live they may sit in the shop for a while, which makes sense due to the price being higher, but just visit the Gibson forums and read the NGD threads. Also remember the majority of guitar players don’t post on web forums.
Let me put it this way - Aus distributor is a good mate of mine - I know how they sell and what is selling better. The expensive stuff is sold in VERY small quantities to collectors or to rich kids who buy with their eyes. The rest is as close to the bottom of the range or they don't sell. I bought all my CS gibbos at minimum 50% discount, and then reluctantly. Some are sold at the same discounts to guys working in the shops with long term repayment plans. Many are sold SH or imported SH from somewhere where they are affordable or from people who are desperate to sell as they need money in a hurry to pay their mortgage. Ditto for PRS - I bought all my PRS's at 30% off their list price (70% "discount"). Musicians cannot afford stupid prices on what they make professionally, even the famous ones. Actually that applies to all the "name" equipment, the prices are too high and people make do with cheaper equipment.
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Addict
 
camacozie's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Musicians cannot afford stupid prices on what they make professionally, even the famous ones. Actually that applies to all the "name" equipment, the prices are too high and people make do with cheaper equipment.
God bless the upper-middle-class-mid-life-crisis-software-engineering men for their support of the inflated-ultra-high-end-mass-produced-new-relic market.

If that brand new old guitar hanging on your wall could talk, it surely would have some great stories - full of rich history and tales of adventure and celebrity - to share about the life you've never actually had. But hey, the guy coming to fix your internet doesn't need to know any of that...
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire ➡️
The South Koreans. Best warranty in the industry.

Why are you relapsing into your old angry self? You had a civil spell for a while. Just couldn't gel with it? I love you and your posts John. Always wondering "What's John's opinion?" For knowledge...and entertainment, I guess.

Sorry to hijack the thread. It was topical I thought. Everything electronic is more expensive (and rare), especially cars and, when it comes to hardware, few deals to be found. Software is a whole nother topic. Cost of living is their only excuse. But guess what? They and their employees need cars, too...and electronics...and everything else that depends on it.
Not angry. I've just learned not to be an early adopter, at least not without a good reason. New guitar brand? I'm gonna five it at least 2 or 3 years before really accepting it. Probably more, considering that guitars tend to be made of wood. And large bursts of enthusiastic hype usually make me suspicious...
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Not angry. I've just learned not to be an early adopter, at least not without a good reason. New guitar brand? I'm gonna five it at least 2 or 3 years before really accepting it. Probably more, considering that guitars tend to be made of wood. And large bursts of enthusiastic hype usually make me suspicious...
When the S. Korean brand "Vintage" started (Wilkinson hardware and he helped design their guitars) I tried one of their Les Paul copies (V100) in Digital Village (late 90s I think) - and bought a couple on the spot I was so impressed - plexed out the factory - £150 each! They play really nicely but the p90 copies could be better though. They've just released a "reissue" version of them - the originals are fetching £500+. Yeah, cheap guitars but being an early adopter doesn't always burn you! I later added a "Vintage" Strat - really like that too.
Old 28th January 2022 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Addict
 
Sentionauts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Let me put it this way - Aus distributor is a good mate of mine - I know how they sell and what is selling better. The expensive stuff is sold in VERY small quantities to collectors or to rich kids who buy with their eyes. The rest is as close to the bottom of the range or they don't sell. I bought all my CS gibbos at minimum 50% discount, and then reluctantly. Some are sold at the same discounts to guys working in the shops with long term repayment plans. Many are sold SH or imported SH from somewhere where they are affordable or from people who are desperate to sell as they need money in a hurry to pay their mortgage. Ditto for PRS - I bought all my PRS's at 30% off their list price (70% "discount"). Musicians cannot afford stupid prices on what they make professionally, even the famous ones. Actually that applies to all the "name" equipment, the prices are too high and people make do with cheaper equipment.
Are you saying its normal, in Aus, to get a 10k PRS or CS Strat or LP for 3k?

Tell me which shop because I'm into that
Old 29th January 2022 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camacozie ➡️
God bless the upper-middle-class-mid-life-crisis-software-engineering men for their support of the inflated-ultra-high-end-mass-produced-new-relic market.

If that brand new old guitar hanging on your wall could talk, it surely would have some great stories - full of rich history and tales of adventure and celebrity - to share about the life you've never actually had. But hey, the guy coming to fix your internet doesn't need to know any of that...
Don't know about the internet repairer guy, but myself (and many others I guess) like the LOOK and FEEL of a relic'd guitar. It also affects the tone as most don't sport a 2mm coat of hard paint as the guy i posted a link to demonstrated.
For me a light body , chunky neck, a great feel of the relic'd neck without slippery paint make usually for a good guitar. And relic'd HW makes me less cautious of putting a tiny dint or scratch on paint or HW, letting me focus on performance.
For me an argument that relic'ing is only for wannabe upper-middle-class-mid-life-crisis-software-engineering men is a cheap pick of someone who doesn't understand. You don't like it - fine, your instrument, your prerogative. But don't act all superior to someone who likes an alternative.
Old 29th January 2022 | Show parent
  #47
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentionauts ➡️
Are you saying its normal, in Aus, to get a 10k PRS or CS Strat or LP for 3k?

Tell me which shop because I'm into that
Definitely not normal for PRS. Only for people who can do it for friends. But on the other hand SH market is full of PRS's at that price point, all in excellent condition.
WRT Gibson's - yes they are regularly sold at huge discounts, but they are way overpriced to start with. And with myriads of excellent and cheaper alternatives from Japan, China, Germany and many boutiques which all exhibit superior craftsmanship and quality they have to discount heavily. If you buy say a limited edition collectable LP/335/etc as a collector I dear you to sell it for more then 50% of the price you paid.
Old 29th January 2022 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Addict
 
Sentionauts's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Definitely not normal for PRS. Only for people who can do it for friends. But on the other hand SH market is full of PRS's at that price point, all in excellent condition.
WRT Gibson's - yes they are regularly sold at huge discounts, but they are way overpriced to start with. And with myriads of excellent and cheaper alternatives from Japan, China, Germany and many boutiques which all exhibit superior craftsmanship and quality they have to discount heavily. If you buy say a limited edition collectable LP/335/etc as a collector I dear you to sell it for more then 50% of the price you paid.
So if I see a CS Strat in an Aussie store for say $6000 what would you expect to pay for it?
Old 29th January 2022 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentionauts ➡️
So if I see a CS Strat in an Aussie store for say $6000 what would you expect to pay for it?
Its AU dollars as you understand. Fender Australia would usually get a RRP in the US and double the number. That's why I haven't bought a Fender in AU unless its a SH, or through special contacts. Otherwise 80% are bought in the US through my contacts there.
Having said that, shops do run specials, better for me. So for a fender at AU$6k i would look between AU$3.5k and AU$4k. Usually its successful cause they hardly sell here otherwise.
I bought a '56 CS relic Tele here for 1900, RRP 8.5k as an intermediate trade-in (only 2 in the country), and a '67 CS relic Tele here for 1400 on eBay auction (RRP here 8.2k)
Old 30th January 2022 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Addict
 
camacozie's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Don't know about the internet repairer guy, but myself (and many others I guess) like the LOOK and FEEL of a relic'd guitar. It also affects the tone as most don't sport a 2mm coat of hard paint as the guy i posted a link to demonstrated.
For me a light body , chunky neck, a great feel of the relic'd neck without slippery paint make usually for a good guitar. And relic'd HW makes me less cautious of putting a tiny dint or scratch on paint or HW, letting me focus on performance.
For me an argument that relic'ing is only for wannabe upper-middle-class-mid-life-crisis-software-engineering men is a cheap pick of someone who doesn't understand. You don't like it - fine, your instrument, your prerogative. But don't act all superior to someone who likes an alternative.
A little sarcastic comment and I'm acting superior... dude, that ain't but a glimpse. Hell, I'm so sarcastic you'd probably think I had a full blown god-complex. Look, you know exactly why you like a relic; that's good enough for me, amigo.
Old 30th January 2022 | Show parent
  #51
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telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 ➡️
False. If Gibson didn’t sell the $6000 Les Paul guitars they wouldn’t make so many of them.

Obviously Epiphone sells more guitars but don’t think for a minute those Murphy Lab or whatever crazy expensive guitars don’t sell.

Depending on where you live they may sit in the shop for a while, which makes sense due to the price being higher, but just visit the Gibson forums and read the NGD threads. Also remember the majority of guitar players don’t post on web forums.
(warning -- old man rant get off my lawn follows).

Sometimes I observe and think young people have no real concept of the true value of money. I think they just get credit cards and rack up credit card bills and keep paying min payment. I have a feeling a lot of those super expensive guitars are bought by young people who use a credit card to sustain a certain lifestyle image in public or online social media. I look at my kids who are teens and them and their friends don't even blink at the insanity of buying a pair of sneakers for $300 and keeping them in plastic wrap to only wear for Instagram. (I told my kid , i ain't giving him the money but he is more than welcome to take a job at McDonalds and work to save $300 to buy them. I have yet to see any action on that front).

Anyways, paying $8k for an electric guitar is insanity -- unless a label or someone else is buying it for you. Then its okay. Rock that Gibson on your shoulder baby cakes.

btw .. get off my lawn punks
Old 6th February 2022 | Show parent
  #52
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noah330's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
(warning -- old man rant get off my lawn follows).

Sometimes I observe and think young people have no real concept of the true value of money. I think they just get credit cards and rack up credit card bills and keep paying min payment. I have a feeling a lot of those super expensive guitars are bought by young people who use a credit card to sustain a certain lifestyle image in public or online social media. I look at my kids who are teens and them and their friends don't even blink at the insanity of buying a pair of sneakers for $300 and keeping them in plastic wrap to only wear for Instagram. (I told my kid , i ain't giving him the money but he is more than welcome to take a job at McDonalds and work to save $300 to buy them. I have yet to see any action on that front).

Anyways, paying $8k for an electric guitar is insanity -- unless a label or someone else is buying it for you. Then its okay. Rock that Gibson on your shoulder baby cakes.

btw .. get off my lawn punks
I’ve known a lot of middle aged people who buy trips and things they can’t afford on credit. Sad but true.

I have a close friend who drives a 15 year old Honda but buys a $4000+ guitar every year or so. Not the worst thing to do all things considered.

Bottom line is Gibson, PRS and FMIC sell the Uber expensive guitars they make. If they didn’t they wouldn’t make them. I’ve seen NGDs on forums for those 10k Explorer/Vs they’re making right now. Ditto Murphy lab stuff.
Old 6th February 2022 | Show parent
  #53
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
(warning -- old man rant get off my lawn follows).

Sometimes I observe and think young people have no real concept of the true value of money. I think they just get credit cards and rack up credit card bills and keep paying min payment. I have a feeling a lot of those super expensive guitars are bought by young people who use a credit card to sustain a certain lifestyle image in public or online social media. I look at my kids who are teens and them and their friends don't even blink at the insanity of buying a pair of sneakers for $300 and keeping them in plastic wrap to only wear for Instagram. (I told my kid , i ain't giving him the money but he is more than welcome to take a job at McDonalds and work to save $300 to buy them. I have yet to see any action on that front).

Anyways, paying $8k for an electric guitar is insanity -- unless a label or someone else is buying it for you. Then its okay. Rock that Gibson on your shoulder baby cakes.

btw .. get off my lawn punks
When you mean young you mean what age? I'm 34 and I have 2 credit cards, 1 business 1 personal and both have nothing on them, I pay them all, and I have 6 figures in my bank account too, so it really depends who. I might be a minority. Been listening to a lot of Buddhism and Stoicism books on audible lately, and it's kind of made me slow down and try to buy less even if I could. Very easy to keep every penny that way, I'll probably have an extra 200k saved by the end of the year.
Old 6th February 2022 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourpatch ➡️
When you mean young you mean what age? I'm 34 and I have 2 credit cards, 1 business 1 personal and both have nothing on them, I pay them all, and I have 6 figures in my bank account too, so it really depends who. I might be a minority. Been listening to a lot of Buddhism and Stoicism books on audible lately, and it's kind of made me slow down and try to buy less even if I could. Very easy to keep every penny that way, I'll probably have an extra 200k saved by the end of the year.
I'm up for adoption. Do you have any use for a grandparent? I'll overlook the Buddhism and Stoicism if you promise not to proselytize.
Old 6th February 2022 | Show parent
  #55
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sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire ➡️
I'm up for adoption. Do you have any use for a grandparent? I'll overlook the Buddhism and Stoicism if you promise not to proselytize.
Sounds like a deal!
Old 7th February 2022
  #56
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chazmar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
OP: Seems like something that would only be done in communist country.
Old 7th February 2022 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 ➡️
I’ve known a lot of middle aged people who buy trips and things they can’t afford on credit. Sad but true.

I have a close friend who drives a 15 year old Honda but buys a $4000+ guitar every year or so. Not the worst thing to do all things considered.

Bottom line is Gibson, PRS and FMIC sell the Uber expensive guitars they make. If they didn’t they wouldn’t make them. I’ve seen NGDs on forums for those 10k Explorer/Vs they’re making right now. Ditto Murphy lab stuff.

I don’t buy $4000 instruments, wouldn’t want to play it or pay for it…but i can see how your friend could afford it, an old Honda is probably the best thing I bought (12 years ago)…if you don’t care about the newest gadgets…have two 17 year old Hondas in my garage, about 420k miles between them, no car payments, no surprise expenses, don’t care if someone dings them….though had someone try to steal the catalytic converter off one while parked at the airport. And the same car someone offered $5k for, to show how crazy the car market is (the car itself well over 250k miles), and I declined.
Old 7th February 2022
  #58
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
There are some misconceptions relating to MSRP and MAP earlier in this thread. What I am about to say applies to USA, however the rules are similar and perhaps more restrictive in other countries. MSRP means Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. MAP means Minimum Advertised Price. In the US, if a manufacturer uses a distributor/reseller/retailer of any kind, and that distributor/retailer actually buys the product and resells it, the manufacturer cannot legally dictate what the reseller ultimately sells it for. (the laws have root in the Clayton Act, refined in the Robinson Patman Act)

However, manufacturers are allowed to dictate a minimum price that the reseller can advertise the product for sale. This is MAP. Example, Gibson can tell Sweetwater they cannot advertise on their website a certain price for a certain Les Pauls for less than $XXXX. This is why you (pre-pandemic) you can call up Sweetwater, and they can give you 15% off the price on their website for that guitar. Gibson ultimately cannot tell Sweetwater the price they sell to the next person, whether another distributor or end user.

However, keep in mind that if a Gibson discovers that a retailer is really blowing out their guitars and their other resellers are squawking to Gibson about their practices, Gibson has a right to lessen their allocation of product, or even terminate the reseller, per whatever their contract is. Most contracts I have negotiated with resellers over the years have a termination clause "at will" of 30 to 90 days. They would not say "we heard you are selling at cost so we are terminating you", since that could be illegal. Instead, they don't need to say anything, just saying "we do not like your business practices" without being specific. The retailer would know what that means.

Creative resellers often push the boundaries. They might advertise at MAP, but then offer free shipping, free case, strings, whatever. (free shipping was the original MAP workaround, now everybody does it)
Old 7th February 2022 | Show parent
  #59
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chazmar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 ➡️
I’ve known a lot of middle aged people who buy trips and things they can’t afford on credit. Sad but true.

I have a close friend who drives a 15 year old Honda but buys a $4000+ guitar every year or so. Not the worst thing to do all things considered.

Bottom line is Gibson, PRS and FMIC sell the Uber expensive guitars they make. If they didn’t they wouldn’t make them. I’ve seen NGDs on forums for those 10k Explorer/Vs they’re making right now. Ditto Murphy lab stuff.
$4000 once a year? 10 years to accumulate 10 of them?

Happens much faster than that. You're bud needs to up his game. There's guys here doing 4K a month or better.

I think he's cheating himself.
Old 7th February 2022 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffw5555 ➡️
There are some misconceptions relating to MSRP and MAP earlier in this thread. What I am about to say applies to USA, however the rules are similar and perhaps more restrictive in other countries. MSRP means Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. MAP means Minimum Advertised Price. In the US, if a manufacturer uses a distributor/reseller/retailer of any kind, and that distributor/retailer actually buys the product and resells it, the manufacturer cannot legally dictate what the reseller ultimately sells it for. (the laws have root in the Clayton Act, refined in the Robinson Patman Act)

However, manufacturers are allowed to dictate a minimum price that the reseller can advertise the product for sale. This is MAP. Example, Gibson can tell Sweetwater they cannot advertise on their website a certain price for a certain Les Pauls for less than $XXXX. This is why you (pre-pandemic) you can call up Sweetwater, and they can give you 15% off the price on their website for that guitar. Gibson ultimately cannot tell Sweetwater the price they sell to the next person, whether another distributor or end user.

However, keep in mind that if a Gibson discovers that a retailer is really blowing out their guitars and their other resellers are squawking to Gibson about their practices, Gibson has a right to lessen their allocation of product, or even terminate the reseller, per whatever their contract is. Most contracts I have negotiated with resellers over the years have a termination clause "at will" of 30 to 90 days. They would not say "we heard you are selling at cost so we are terminating you", since that could be illegal. Instead, they don't need to say anything, just saying "we do not like your business practices" without being specific. The retailer would know what that means.

Creative resellers often push the boundaries. They might advertise at MAP, but then offer free shipping, free case, strings, whatever. (free shipping was the original MAP workaround, now everybody does it)
Unfortunately, these days, it's the opposite in anything involving electronics. Gouging. So much so that Ford has issued a warning to their dealerships.
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dandeurloo 18th February 2021
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