The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
BLIND TEST! Friedman vs Axe Fx III vs Helix
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninecows ➡️
It’s not only the cab that’s moving around. It’s all the other c*** in the room. Like big piles of fabric that my wife is getting into our life

At least it’s fabric and not something highly sound reflective.

We’re on different planets you and me. And that’s fair enough. I wish I had better opportunities for doing recordings, but I don’t.

In terms of room acoustics here’s what I’m struggling with:

Where to put treatment?

Take note of the room response measurements at the end of that thread.


What I’m saying is just that with the opportunities I have, the helix (or possibly any other sim) is giving me the fastest route to a sound I like. And a lot of creative people are out there and they can create fabulous music (far better than mine) under similar or worse conditions. Some have the talent/time for recording an amp even under these conditions. Others will turn to a sim.

Either way I bet that >99% of the time it will not be amp+mic vs sim that will make people listen to the record. It will be all the other things involved in the recording (eg the guy holding the guitar for a start…)
Had a quick look at your room We worked with MUCH less in the past (in the days i had a studio ). Some recommendations (which "came" from Frank Zappa):
1. If you are using a closed back cabinet - Borrow some cloth from the boss and fold it a number of times to reach a height of 3 inches. If you have some 10cm foal - even better. Last resort - a few pillows. Get 4x bricks so that you can prop the cab. Lay the cab on top of the pillows/foam... , put bricks under the corners. If using chairs under the corners then the dampening will work as an absorber rather then dampening the back panel, but will be ok in the way. The chairs work better in the way as the height is ~60cm off the floor but put something under the points of contact to eliminate rattling. Suspend the mic close to cone as required or up to 1m above. If the ceiling is too low you need to tent it, but you should be ok. In other words point upwards and record, this should be very repeatable. You can also point at the ceiling/wall corner.
2. For open back its the same but the chair , with dumping on the floor will work better.

This should sound better then the Helix. You can also use several mics at different distances to record reverb....
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninecows ➡️
So far my biggest problem with recording with a mic has been to distinguish the captured signal in my cans without bleed through from the amp. And playing while moving the mic around.

For someone who has been doing it for a living for decades this is probably piece of cake. Especially if you have been trained with someone else is playing the guitar while you can go to the control room to double check. And I really admire those skills you have obtained with years of training. But don’t argue with “that’s so easy”. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

Chemistry, process control, calculus and statistics is also super easy to me because I do it for a living. Not so much for most people I guess?

An amp, cab and mic will do some nonlinear, frequency dependent transformation of the signal fed into them. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to do the same in the digital domain using high enough sampling frequency and effort.

What goes on in the signal chain from guitar>amp>mic>preamp>DAC is not magic. It’s just math and it can be replicated in the digital domain so no-one can tell the difference in a blind test.

Surely you can do it so it sounds bad and there’s a lot of examples of that out there. And surely the guitarist will not experience the same uuumph! from the amp, vibrations in the floor and many other things that will matter to him.

It would be a fun experiment. Make a clean tone with the helix and with an amp. Not aim for the exact same tone, but just two different signal paths. And then see if people can detect which one is the sim (you know - the one with the cold and sterile sound).

I might do that. One day ;-)
Another mountain out of nothing.
Put the mic where you expect it to sound good - strum a little. Listen through the headphones. If you have an assistant/little brother/dad... aske them to move the mic as you direct them while you play listening in the headphones.
If you watch a 3min video on the basis of cab mic'ing you can be an expert in 10min. Its easy, it is not rocket science.
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy ➡️
You can apply to be hired by the FBI

First if all, thats more than you ever released.
Second, I am not rapping. You should be able to hear that with working ears.
Third, here are some excerpts from reviews from an album I play guitar, sing, wrote most of the songs and mixed everything:

"
Diese Österreicher sind seit geschlagenen 24 Jahren aktiv, und wann sie
währenddessen den Dreh herausbekommen haben, unaufgeregt originellen
Doom Rock im weitesten Sinn zu fabrizieren, wissen wir nicht; fest steht nur,
dass der Vierer reif für einen Deal ist.
(Tipp des Monats – Rock Hard Magazin) "

" Die Jungs beweisen kompetentes Songwriting und schaffen es trotz aller
Heavyness, eine melancholische Grundstimmung beizubehalten. Das liegt vor
allem an der hervorragenden Saitenarbeit (Twin Gitarren herschen halt!) und der
bärenstarken Gesangsdarbietung von Sänger Philipp.
(Starkstrom Magazin) "

" Es fällt leicht, sich mit diesem Soundtrack in die Tiefen hinabzulassen, denn der
hypnotisch-traurige Sound hat auch etwas Tröstliches und
Ermutigendes…Saucool!
(10 Punkte - Legacy Magazin) "

" Hier pflügen sich schwere Gitarren teilweise minutenlang durch schlammige
Riffs, entfalten sich dann zu epischen Melodien und sorgen so ein ums andere
Mal für die allseits bekannte Erpelpelle. Selten klang Ton gewordene Schwere
eleganter als auf diesem Album.
(4 von 5 Punkten - Ox Fanzine) "

" The band have got the riff, they've got the musicianship and they combine it to
create an amalgamation of Stoner, doom and sludge that will not only nods to
Crowbar, Khemmis and Sleep but also to to early Pallbearer.
(5 Points - Power Play Magazine) "

" What stands tall, towering over all those intricate little burrows of insanity are
the mountainous riffs; the monumental drum work and massive bass!
(**** Stoner Hive) "

" What immediately stands out: what a damn massive sound this foursome
produces… Still, you can say that they provide an obvious mix of thumping doom
and stoner (just listen to those fuzzy guitar lines) but with an extra heavy layer by
sometimes making the rhythm guitar sound like a Machine Head or Crowbar.
Good defining rhythm section too by the way!
(80/100 - Zware Metalen) "

" LITTLE HOLE FILLED haben mit “And The Ants Still March On” ein innerhalb der
Genregrenzen sehr abwechslungsreiches Doom-Metal-Album abgeliefert, das ich
jedem Freund des Genres bedenkenlos ans Herz legen kann.
(7,5/10 Oblivion) "

„And The Ants Still March On“ ist der poetische Wahnsinn aus dem Mühlviertel.
Ihr Gefühl für blumige Verse und für lautmalerische Musik machen das Album
zum dunklen Hörvergnügen. Der Gitarrist lässt Doomriffs aus seinem Körper
bluten, die sich wie eine zähe Maße in die Länge zieht, zu dem der Sänger ins
Mikro rotzt.
(4/5 – Stormbringer) "

" Zähflüssige, hypnotisierende Riffs kriechen beim Titeltrack sogleich aus den
Boxen, der Gesang tönt wie aus weiter Ferne und schon ist man im Genresog
gefangen. Der Sound wummert, die Instrumentalparts erzeugen eine ungeheure
Kraft und irgendwie kann man sich einfach treiben lassen.
(4/5 – Earshot) "

" Obwohl der Tenor des Albums im Kreislauf von Leben und Tod liegt, zieht das
Material nicht den Hörer wankelmütig runter. Im Gegenteil, die Stimmung klingt
nicht zu traurig anvisiert und mit vielen Ausbrüchen spielt sich der Trupp
weiterhin in einen ewig zu folgenden Spielrausch. Von solch einem Konzept und
der hier vorliegenden Klangkunst können sich selbst größere Nummern eine
dicke Scheibe abschneiden!
Fazit: Was für ein großartiges Debüt das uns LITTLE HOLE FILLED hier mit „And
The Ants Still March On“ im Doom/Stoner/Sludge Metal Bereich vorlegen! Absolut
begeisterungswürdig!
(5/5 – Metalunderground) "

" LITTLE HOLE FILLED haben sich für ihre Songs Zeit gelassen, damit sie atmen und
Reifen können. Ein Hammer Werk welches zum reinen hörvergnügen wird.
(Blattturbo) "

" Little Hole Filled takes us on a cosmic odyssey, towards the exploration of an
unknown planet, the senses disturbed by some psychotropic. Halfway between
More and Alien.
(Bawah Tanah Bangers) "

" From start to finish you'll be treated to an extensive spread of genres and styles
that will keep you engaged and stimulated. Most importantly the album rocks
hard as hell and it's something that you need to experience.
(Cave Dweller Music) "

"First things first: Little Hole Filled is a modern Stoner/Doom Band with an iconic
and memorable sound that will pleasure the ears of every person who likes
either of the genres. The album starts heavily with the album-titled track – and
you can hear the marching ants!
(Transcended Music Blog) "

" Whilst mostly situated in the realms of apocalyptic Doom Metal, "And The Ants
Still March On" has something very positive to it. This is not the end of all days
Little Hole Filled are describing here. Well, it might be the end of humankind,
but... the ants still march on.
That said, Little Hole Filled's may not be a revolutionary release in the realms of
Stoner Doom. Nevertheless, it is an extremely powerful album you will not regret
having in your collection. Not a single dropout on this record, so let there be
Doom!
(MangRaveReview Blog) "

Your turn.

2 questions
1. Who gave you those reviews (discount your class mates, and siblings who you paid to write some. I understand Deutsch as I lived 3 years in Deutschland and 3 in Osterreich. You may want to translate to the non-German speakers here.
2. Sold many?
Another words show some respect.
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
1. If you are using a closed back cabinet - Borrow some cloth from the boss and fold it a number of times to reach a height of 3 inches. If you have some 10cm foal - even better. Last resort - a few pillows. Get 4x bricks so that you can prop the cab. Lay the cab on top of the pillows/foam... , put bricks under the corners. If using chairs under the corners then the dampening will work as an absorber rather then dampening the back panel, but will be ok in the way. The chairs work better in the way as the height is ~60cm off the floor but put something under the points of contact to eliminate rattling. Suspend the mic close to cone as required or up to 1m above. If the ceiling is too low you need to tent it, but you should be ok. In other words point upwards and record, this should be very repeatable. You can also point at the ceiling/wall corner.
2. For open back its the same but the chair , with dumping on the floor will work better.

This should sound better then the Helix. You can also use several mics at different distances to record reverb....
alternatively you could just switch on the Helix and play immediately
2
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
This quickly turned into: “my god is better than your god” ;-)
2
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Had a quick look at your room We worked with MUCH less in the past (in the days i had a studio ). Some recommendations (which "came" from Frank Zappa):
1. If you are using a closed back cabinet - Borrow some cloth from the boss and fold it a number of times to reach a height of 3 inches. If you have some 10cm foal - even better. Last resort - a few pillows. Get 4x bricks so that you can prop the cab. Lay the cab on top of the pillows/foam... , put bricks under the corners. If using chairs under the corners then the dampening will work as an absorber rather then dampening the back panel, but will be ok in the way. The chairs work better in the way as the height is ~60cm off the floor but put something under the points of contact to eliminate rattling. Suspend the mic close to cone as required or up to 1m above. If the ceiling is too low you need to tent it, but you should be ok. In other words point upwards and record, this should be very repeatable. You can also point at the ceiling/wall corner.
2. For open back its the same but the chair , with dumping on the floor will work better.

This should sound better then the Helix. You can also use several mics at different distances to record reverb....
Come on Yuri - even you say you use a load box / sim at home. How practical is it for people to turn their houses upside down.
If people have a dedicated studio then fine.
2
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninecows ➡️
This quickly turned into: “my god is better than your god” ;-)
That's the purpose of all these threads going back years lol.
Anyway, shouldn't you be moving furniture?
2
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix ➡️
alternatively you could just switch on the Helix and play immediately
Well treat the setup as a perfectly dialled pre-set, with a better tone.
Whatever you prefer, but acoustics is not the reason for your choice. Laziness - maybe
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix ➡️
Come on Yuri - even you say you use a load box / sim at home. How practical is it for people to turn their houses upside down.
If people have a dedicated studio then fine.
Occasionally in the middle of the night. But generally I have 1x12 with a e906 hanging over the grill. Turn the amp on and get creative. I dial sounds for purpose, presets are usually not suitable. The speaker sits on top of a rack, the "amp" is a pre into a Marshall 9200 usually. No turning the house upside down required, has smaller footprint then the helix
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix ➡️
That's the purpose of all these threads going back years lol.
Anyway, shouldn't you be moving furniture?
yes indeed…

No. I’ll just stick to my little digital friend. Just downloaded a bunch of cold and sterile sounding presets.
1
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Occasionally in the middle of the night. But generally I have 1x12 with a e906 hanging over the grill. Turn the amp on and get creative. I dial sounds for purpose, presets are usually not suitable. The speaker sits on top of a rack, the "amp" is a pre into a Marshall 9200 usually. No turning the house upside down required, has smaller footprint then the helix
In another thread you was gushing about the two notes - ah well doesn't really matter. I did have one it was good btw
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninecows ➡️
yes indeed…

No. I’ll just stick to my little digital friend. Just downloaded a bunch of cold and sterile sounding presets.
Have you heard Chris Buck through his? If not it's worth a google.
1
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix ➡️
In another thread you was gushing about the two notes - ah well doesn't really matter. I did have one it was good btw
Gushing? I dont do that. I use it if i either need silence or want the tone for whichever reason (like a snare sound). I do use it, but not because it is hard or "acoustically un-appropriate" to mic a cab in a mall room usurped by the Boss.
1
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Gushing? I dont do that. I use it if i either need silence or want the tone for whichever reason (like a snare sound). I do use it, but not because it is hard or "acoustically un-appropriate" to mic a cab in a mall room usurped by the Boss.
OK lol
"only it doesn't hold a candle to the Torpedo Reload, which has many features, is a reactive load, a re-amper... Pair that with a Torpedo CAB and you can use any IRs, DSRs or SpeakerMix Pro. If you want a single device a Torpedo Live or Torpedo Studio (if you need studio IO...) provide better sounding Load Box and studio flexibility. And its way cheaper. I don't know which 2 notes units you had experience with (I haven't tried much of the Captor+ units) but the ones i mentioned (the ones I use) are constantly updated and provide fantastic sound"

A good memory is an affliction
1
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix ➡️
OK lol
"only it doesn't hold a candle to the Torpedo Reload, which has many features, is a reactive load, a re-amper... Pair that with a Torpedo CAB and you can use any IRs, DSRs or SpeakerMix Pro. If you want a single device a Torpedo Live or Torpedo Studio (if you need studio IO...) provide better sounding Load Box and studio flexibility. And its way cheaper. I don't know which 2 notes units you had experience with (I haven't tried much of the Captor+ units) but the ones i mentioned (the ones I use) are constantly updated and provide fantastic sound"

A good memory is an affliction
What does my preference for a particular device in comparison to similar devices have to do with my total preference for cab mic'ing?
I do prefer an amp through a 2Notes device, and definitely to a Helix, but cab mic'ing is the king for me. Does that make sense to you? Load-box ain't a substitute for a mic-cab. That's what it always is about for me. Read the other thread (or a dozen)
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
What does my preference for a particular device in comparison to similar devices have to do with my total preference for cab mic'ing?
I do prefer an amp through a 2Notes device, and definitely to a Helix, but cab mic'ing is the king for me. Does that make sense to you? Load-box ain't a substitute for a mic-cab. That's what it always is about for me. Read the other thread (or a dozen)
Yep I get your preference ( which is also mine btw)
The whole context of this thread was to attack Jon's video for using a load box. The OP bought it here after getting short shrift at another forum.
You've said the Two Notes sounds fantastic. I agree.
So not all load boxes are equal. And some can sound "fantastic".
Just thought that might bring some context to all the bickering.
That's all.
4
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Addict
 
and finally..
Jon had posted that video in the digital forum on the other site.

Most people understood it was just to show how close a modeller can get to a real amp through a load box. Nothing more.

The OP ( and some other people) read way more into it and got bent out of shape.

Jon - I liked the Helix best ( or was it the amp?..)
3
Share
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
2 questions
1. Who gave you those reviews (discount your class mates, and siblings who you paid to write some. I understand Deutsch as I lived 3 years in Deutschland and 3 in Osterreich. You may want to translate to the non-German speakers here.
2. Sold many?
Another words show some respect.
In bracket you find the names of the magazines an blogs. Including international print magazines.
In other words: show some respect.
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy ➡️
In bracket you find the names of the magazines an blogs. Including international print magazines.
In other words: show some respect.
Mmmm, Yeah, right
Old 16th December 2021 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Mmmm, Yeah, right
Ah, that must be the respect you are talking about.
Old 16th December 2021
  #81
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Unfollowing. This is getting beyond constructive to me.

There were a few good advices on how to improve my amp mic’ing and these are noted for when time/lack of laziness allows me.

Have a nice day all of you :-)
4
Share
Closed

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 1256 views: 304693
Avatar for barforama
barforama 19 hours ago
replies: 94 views: 15255
Avatar for deedeeyeah
deedeeyeah 8th February 2022
replies: 190 views: 38436
Avatar for m127f
m127f 28th February 2017
replies: 57 views: 6168
Avatar for deng
deng 5th November 2016
Topic:

Forum Jump
Forum Jump