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top quality guitars... do they make a difference with amp emulations?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
top quality guitars... do they make a difference with amp emulations?

Hello,

Suppose you have a pro quality guitar. Does that make a noticeable difference when working with amp emulators like the Kemper and the Axe (or Guitar Lab VST or whatever)? Or does the amp emulator tend to erase differences between guitars?

I can't work with an external tube amp right now. So I could at least start with a good guitar. The guitars I am interested in are:
EVH Wolfgang Signature USA ($4000)
Suhr Pete Thorn Signature ($3500)
Les Paul USA Made custom or standard ($2500-4700)

There aren't super exotic models. But they are definitely 100% professional. Would these be difference makers in a digital daw emulated amp environment?

Last edited by gearstudent; 1 week ago at 06:02 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
tINY's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years

I doubt it. You pay for playability, finish, and branding once you get past the bottom end of the electric guitar market. The pickups and pots don't get much better after about $700 these days....



-tINY

Old 1 week ago
  #3
Lives for gear
I don't think you should worry so much about whether or not you can "hear" an expensive guitar's qualities when using digital emulation or not but concentrate more on how that guitar actually feels in your hands and how you like playing it.

You should be able to get good sounds with a guitar that costs a lot less but if spending a couple or even several times more dollars (or whatever your currency might be) get's you an instrument that inspires you then that's money well spent if you can afford it.

Focus on the instrument compared to other instruments and how you interact with it and then after that you can figure out what exactly you want to plug it in to.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
... does the amp emulator tend to erase differences between guitars?
An emulation of a dimed Marshall might, but so would a real dimed Marshall. In general, though, sims allow the character of the guitar to be heard. But I don't think you need to spend anything like that kind of money. And I wouldn't think so even if I had that kind of money.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Amp sims 'react' to different playing techniques, different volume and tone settings on your guitar and different guitars altogether in different ways.

I have to imagine that the people who create the amp sims I use tried multiple guitars, etc. when they designed them but I find that my solid body and hollow body, for example, really work better with different brands of sim altogether. GuitarRig and Amplitube provide very different results for me depending on how I'm inputting sound.

I really struggled with amp sims until I started exploring the output of my guitars more, less volume, different tone settings, etc. than I'm used to with my real amp.

I don't think higher end guitars will give you 'better' results, just different, depending on the sims you're using. Also, I do find that I'm more picky with simulated distortion than I am with clean tones. Your style of playing and music will influence what works and what doesn't.

If you are exploring your options, I'd advise that you grab all of the free amp sims you can find to see how they stack up with your current guitar. I was surprised by the free version of AmpLion, as an example.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
No. It makes almost zero difference IMO. I own a variety of electric guitars that cost from $3500 to $100. I record them all about equally. They all sound a little different, but none of them sound "bad". A few months after I've recorded a song, I would have a hard time telling you whether I used the $3500 PRS or the $100 Ibanez. If I remember at all, it would only be because I keep certain guitars tuned in certain ways. So if the song is in E standard or Drop C, I have a pretty good idea which guitar it had to be. But tonewise? I sound like me no matter what I use.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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bowzin's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
EVH Wolfgang Signature USA ($4000)
Suhr Pete Thorn Signature ($3500)
Les Paul USA Made custom or standard ($2500-4700)
Agree with the other posters those particular models are not strong "value" IMHO, if you're after moving the needle with amp sims. For Wolfgang models, Strat-ish archetypes, and $4,700 Les Pauls... those prices seem well into "just screwin around/bucket list" type prices, not high-value. If you are seriously committed to hunting down an end-game hollowbody jazz guitar that fits you like a glove, or for custom or vintage guitars, etc. then that price makes more sense maybe.

IMHO you'd be way, way better off with less-expensive and higher-value versions of each archetype that interests you.

Say, a nice used Fender American Standard series Strat or Tele, or Suhr, G&L, etc., for less than half the signature Suhr model you posted. $800-$1,500

And then maybe an affordable used Gibson Les Paul, or Epiphone with upgraded pickups, or other clone. $1,000-$2,000 (Les Paul Studios can be sweet).

Etc. Etc. Maybe a Fender Mustang, something with a dive-bomb tremolo, something with a nice Bigsby. A hollowbody Epiphone with nice pickups and a nice Bigsby would be huge value as an alt to your main instrument in the studio.

Maybe add a nice bass, or maybe two affordable ones with upgraded pickups, one with flatwounds and one with roundwounds. Maybe one long scale bass, plus a short scale Mustang bass. Or whatever.

I do think changing pickups can be a huge upgrade on cheaper instruments, and even higher tier instruments if you know what you want. Maybe I just have weird preferences (I dont think so). I personally prefer high-detail but not ice-pick pickups.

If the stock pickups are noisy, microphonic, too dull, too bright, or dont "play well" with each other (e.g. a too-bright bridge, paired with a too-dark neck is common), then I will change them out until they are comfortable to me.

Caveat: there are "unusually magic" guitars out there, unquestionably. But they show up at various price points, including mid-tier. And there are also "stinker" guitars at every price point, including high-end. Especially with the biggest brands, and ESPECIALLY with acoustic guitars.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
RicTone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
Hello,

Suppose you have a pro quality guitar. Does that make a noticeable difference when working with amp emulators like the Kemper and the Axe (or Guitar Lab VST or whatever)? Or does the amp emulator tend to erase differences between guitars?
I'll answer a bit different than the other people. I've had several Kempers for eight years. I've played my Kempers live and I've recorded with them. Coming into the tenth year of our band I've played tube amps or the Kemper live at about a 50/50 ratio between the two.

I've played many different guitars through the Kemper; Strats, Humbucking Strats, Les Pauls, Rickenbackers, Telecasters and more.

The Kemper is more sensitive in terms of the tonal differences between guitars than my tube amps. For example, going from a single coil Strat to a Les Paul on the Kemper results in more of a difference (and therefore more EQ changes on the Kemper) than plugging either guitar into one of my tube amps. Basically, I need to make less Treble/Mid/Bass settings on a tube amp than I need to make comparatively with the Kemper.

Playing live with my Kemper I've had to create completely different rigs for my main gigging guitars, various Strats, Les Pauls, Rickenbackers and Telecaster.

To answer your question, yes the Kemper will reveal differences between guitars. Now, whether or not people believe the Kemper is "real" enough isn't my point. The point is that Kemper is sensitive to different guitars.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #9
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
An emulation of a dimed Marshall might, but so would a real dimed Marshall. In general, though, sims allow the character of the guitar to be heard. But I don't think you need to spend anything like that kind of money. And I wouldn't think so even if I had that kind of money.
I would disagree. BTW. Marshall (classic one) is not very high gain and doesn't mush up the tone too much.
WRT sims, I said it many times that they make the guitars sound same-y. Clean or gain. Not the same with a tube amp
WRT expensive guitars - compare expensive guitars made in the US against similar made in Japan - Japanese quality is at least as good but the price is often half. Things like pickups are maybe different but not worst. I routinely change my pickups on my, very expensive gibbons, but don't have the need on my SA series Yamahas. Go figure.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't use an emulator, so I can't answer this properly.... so I won't try.

But - if a pro quality guitar makes a noticeable difference when plugged into an amp, you would tend to think that is would also make a noticeable difference when plugged into an emulator, no?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
RicTone's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️
I don't use an emulator, so I can't answer this properly.... so I won't try.

But - if a pro quality guitar makes a noticeable difference when plugged into an amp, you would tend to think that is would also make a noticeable difference when plugged into an emulator, no?
With a Kemper, definitely yes. Different guitars have a noticeable difference.

Whether or not the quality level of the guitar is ascertainable in the Kemper no one can answer quantitatively, but I base my results in that I only play high quality guitars with original high quality pickups or pickups of equall high quality.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
as somebody who makes guitars, I do think it makes a difference, however the differences are subtle and only really professional players will notice, it's more than just brand names it's how the neck feels, how the guitar is setup will actually make the biggest difference, you don't want any awful buzzing, uneven or sharp frets, bad quality wiring, I think pickups make the biggest difference on an electric guitar, that's where the biggest investment should be. I don't use amp sims though, only real valve amps.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
bear in mind that EVH himself used a musicman guitar NOT his own EVH models on a lot of classic recordings, he also used a charvel part caster for his legendary recordings...maybe it's not the gear and the musician?
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
Hello,

Suppose you have a pro quality guitar. Does that make a noticeable difference when working with amp emulators like the Kemper and the Axe (or Guitar Lab VST or whatever)? Or does the amp emulator tend to erase differences between guitars?

I can't work with an external tube amp right now. So I could at least start with a good guitar. The guitars I am interested in are:
EVH Wolfgang Signature USA ($4000)
Suhr Pete Thorn Signature ($3500)
Les Paul USA Made custom or standard ($2500-4700)

There aren't super exotic models. But they are definitely 100% professional. Would these be difference makers in a digital daw emulated amp environment?
Does it make a difference? Not if you can't play. It's still not gonna be as good as a real (good quality) amp. No way.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY ➡️

I doubt it. You pay for playability, finish, and branding once you get past the bottom end of the electric guitar market. The pickups and pots don't get much better after about $700 these days....



-tINY

Show me ANY $700 guitar that comes stock with Fralins!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #16
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️
I don't use an emulator, so I can't answer this properly.... so I won't try.

But - if a pro quality guitar makes a noticeable difference when plugged into an amp, you would tend to think that is would also make a noticeable difference when plugged into an emulator, no?
It depends on the emulator. Some of them can ruin anything.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeengrim ➡️
No. It makes almost zero difference IMO. I own a variety of electric guitars that cost from $3500 to $100. I record them all about equally. They all sound a little different, but none of them sound "bad". A few months after I've recorded a song, I would have a hard time telling you whether I used the $3500 PRS or the $100 Ibanez. If I remember at all, it would only be because I keep certain guitars tuned in certain ways. So if the song is in E standard or Drop C, I have a pretty good idea which guitar it had to be. But tonewise? I sound like me no matter what I use.
I think the difference between a good Gibson, good Fender, good Gretsch, and a Rickenbacker is pretty damn obvious. If you think they sound the same, or even similar, makes me think you should take up the drums.

Of course, if you choice is between PRS (a totally middle of the road guitar that tries to be all things to all people - and fails) and an Ibanez, maybe you just need better guitars. Which does not always equate to more expensive ones.

Or course you sound like you - but that's not what we're talking about. Tone and playing style are two entirely different things.

Last edited by John Eppstein; 1 week ago at 03:42 AM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #18
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Ifs you think they sound the same, or evfen similar, makes me think you should take up the drums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Tone and playing style are two entirely different things.
Must disagree there. I would say that tone and playing style are intertwined, and that your tone comes from your playing style to a large extent.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #19
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat ➡️




Must disagree there. I would say that tone and playing style are intertwined, and that your tone comes from your playing style to a large extent.
OF COURSE they're intertwined. One's playing is influenced by the instrument. EVERYTHING is intertwined.

But that's not what we're talking about - what we're talking about is amp tone (or amp emulator) tone, not individual playing style.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
what we're talking about is amp tone....
Ah. Did not know that was what you meant.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes they do. Besides playability the pickups make a difference. It’s not as drastic as with a tube amp but that’s one of the great things about some emulators, you’ve got all kinds of settings to go through to find a tone that works well with the guitar and pickups.
Most notably theres a difference between a les Paul and a strat or a lot of super strats.

The les Paul you mentioned won’t get you a tone of a strat. But theme Suhr with humbuckers and coil splitting will get you somewhat close to a les Paul tone and a strat tone. That’s why super strats are around.
Best of both worlds. (Van Halen pun intended)

As far as pickups go,the difference in a lot of humbuckers and single coils are not markedly as different with sims as they are with tube amps. Where sometimes you just find a magical combination of pickup and amp and sometimes the combination you have sounds terrible no matter what you do so you have to change either the amp or the guitar or the pickups.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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mdme_sadie's Avatar
Every guitar is different. Sims don’t magically normalize all guitars, they only process the electrical output of the guitar, clip it in a similar way to the circuit of a tube amp and apply what you might consider an eq to emulate the sound of a speaker.

So the question really just becomes - is there a difference between an expensive or cheap guitar? And of course yes there is. But it’s not going to be that the expensive one somehow sounds more expensive. An expensive guitar will likely be made to a higher quality standard, so fewer defects, higher grade woods and exotic materials, nicer finishes usually, better factory setup, nicer case, more expensive components, more ornate decorations, better craftsmanship. None of that means it will feel or sound better. Just because someone labored over something doesn’t mean it’s designed with a neck profile that fits your hands better than say a cheap Squier or Epiphone, nor do expensive pickups ensure that to your ears it will be more musical or pleasant than say a 90s Japanese Telecaster you could pick up for a couple of hundred online.

The bigger differences really happen at the very low end. Very cheap intro instruments tend to be made of such poor quality materials that the electronics are falling out before you even get it homes. Anything above that though is a crap shoot.

I find it very important to just play instruments till you find one you like and then hope that the sticker doesn’t have 4 or more digits on it. Everyone gels with different guitars, it’s a very personal thing.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
OF COURSE they make a difference. Not only in the tone, but in your playing, which is the most important thing.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Gear Head
 
Good sims are indistinguishable from amps atm, despite what the cork-sniffers would have you believe. So like a poster above said, if you think an expensive guitar sounds better through an amp, it'll sound better through a sim.
The question isn't so much about the sim (eg the NDPS Soldano through your monitors sounds like a Soldano through your monitors) but about the guitar. If you can hear a difference between an Epiphone and a Gibson then you'll hear that through an amp or a simulated amp.
It's like asking if it's possible to tell the difference between a Neuman U87 and a Rode NT1 through a hardware LA-2A and the best software LA-2A emulation. Yes, of course.
The real question is, is the difference in sound of the premium guitar/mic worth the premium price to you?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #25
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axy McGuitarface ➡️
Good sims are indistinguishable from amps atm, despite what the cork-sniffers would have you believe. So like a poster above said, if you think an expensive guitar sounds better through an amp, it'll sound better through a sim.
The question isn't so much about the sim (eg the NDPS Soldano through your monitors sounds like a Soldano through your monitors) but about the guitar. If you can hear a difference between an Epiphone and a Gibson then you'll hear that through an amp or a simulated amp.
It's like asking if it's possible to tell the difference between a Neuman U87 and a Rode NT1 through a hardware LA-2A and the best software LA-2A emulation. Yes, of course.
The real question is, is the difference in sound of the premium guitar/mic worth the premium price to you?
We own 471 mic here. And in every mic shootout (done on every voice and often on instruments) every client can hear enough difference to insist on a specific combo. Through the same pre. I have 8 U87s here a nd 2 NT1s (these are used a hardwired talkback mics between the live rooms and control rooms). The u87s from different years (u87, u87a, u87ai) and there is a very audible difference difference between them. NT1s are a very different beast all together.
Yes there is a big difference between a plugin and a HW LA2A. As well as a HW copy and a say vintage LA2A. That's the nature of analogue. BTW if you knew anything about studios, you would plug a mic into a pre before your compressor? And there is huge difference in the mic pre sound.
Please do not start that crap re "sim as good as real amp". We have about 190 amps here at any particular time. BTW we currently have 2 SLO100s here. My old one and the new release which belongs to a client doing a project at the moment. Quite different tone (not worst or better - different), and I haven't heard any sim that truly come close in tone, unless you crank it all the way and get a full gain mush where is sounds like....mush. The behaviour with crunch a usable gain is very different. I wonder if you own (doubt it) one or have ever played one?
WRT the "cork-sniffers" - you must be one of those who drink cheap American slush called "beer". At the same time claiming it is as good as the best German or Belgian beer? and feels as good as a nice cognac?

As to the "is the difference in sound of the premium guitar/mic worth the premium price " I can ask you: how much does the ability to deliver what your clients want quickly worth to you? How much does the client satisfaction (whether a listener, a manager, a composer...) worth to you and do the returns justify the expenditure? Are you a producer and how quickly do you want to achieve results? Are you aware what you can achieve with various equipment? Or are you just a hack who plays in a bedroom, has no clients and just enjoy stirring forums?

Last edited by Yuri Kogan; 1 week ago at 02:41 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Those are wildly different guitars and I'd choose based on utility, not sound. Trem vs fixed, 25.5" vs 24.75" scale. They'll all sound great. (And there are plenty of much cheaper guitars that are equally "professional." But if you got the dough, by all means!)
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #27
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
We own 471 mic here. And in every mic shootout (done on every voice and often on instruments) every client can hear enough difference to insist on a specific combo. Through the same pre. I have 8 U87s here a nd 2 NT1s (these are used a hardwired talkback mics between the live rooms and control rooms). The u87s from different years (u87, u87a, u87ai) and there is a very audible difference difference between them. NT1s are a very different beast all together.
Yes there is a big difference between a plugin and a HW LA2A. As well as a HW copy and a say vintage LA2A. That's the nature of analogue. BTW if you knew anything about studios, you would plug a mic into a pre before your compressor? And there is huge difference in the mic pre sound.
Please do not start that crap re "sim as good as real amp". We have about 190 amps here at any particular time. BTW we currently have 2 SLO100s here. My old one and the new release which belongs to a client doing a project at the moment. Quite different tone (not worst or better - different), and I haven't heard any sim that truly come close in tone, unless you crank it all the way and get a full gain mush where is sounds like....mush. The behaviour with crunch a usable gain is very different. I wonder if you own (doubt it) one or have ever played one?
WRT the "cork-sniffers" - you must be one of those who drink cheap American slush called "beer". At the same time claiming it is as good as the best German or Belgian beer? and feels as good as a nice cognac?

As to the "is the difference in sound of the premium guitar/mic worth the premium price " I can ask you: how much does the ability to deliver what your clients want quickly worth to you? How much does the client satisfaction (whether a listener, a manager, a composer...) worth to you and do the returns justify the expenditure? Are you a producer and how quickly do you want to achieve results? Are you aware what you can achieve with various equipment? Or are you just a hack who plays in a bedroom, has no clients and just enjoy stirring forums?
Oops I'm new here. I thought it was okay to offer an opinion. Can you give a list of things it's permitted to say? I presume you're a moderator.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axy McGuitarface ➡️
Oops I'm new here. I thought it was okay to offer an opinion. Can you give a list of things it's permitted to say? I presume you're a moderator.
Opinions are always welcome. Especially based on experience, so everyone can consider it and learn from it.
Do you have any experience you are basing your "cork-sniffer" remarks on? Or you just dreamt it all up?
The last thing I want is to be a mod. More to life then dealing with trolls. What I am is a producer, with over 35 years of experience, access to gear you probably didn't even know about, someone who likes to share real experience not "opinions".
Carry on share your opinions.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan ➡️
Opinions are always welcome. Especially based on experience, so everyone can consider it and learn from it.
Do you have any experience you are basing your "cork-sniffer" remarks on? Or you just dreamt it all up?
The last thing I want is to be a mod. More to life then dealing with trolls. What I am is a producer, with over 35 years of experience, access to gear you probably didn't even know about, someone who likes to share real experience not "opinions".
Carry on share your opinions.
Uh oh. R/iamverybadass alert. So not a mod but just a cork-sniffer version of this guy.

What the **** did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the **** out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ****ing words. You think you can get away with saying that **** to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little ****. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ****ing tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will **** fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're ****ing dead, kiddo


Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #30
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axy McGuitarface ➡️
Uh oh. R/iamverybadass alert. So not a mod but just a cork-sniffer version of this guy.

What the **** did you just ****ing say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the **** out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ****ing words. You think you can get away with saying that **** to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little ****. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ****ing tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will **** fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're ****ing dead, kiddo


Meds time?
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