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Why are Valve amps so difficult to practice with!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Why are Valve amps so difficult to practice with!!!

Hey guys,

I practice with my stoner rock band with a Marshall Origin 50H out a 4x12 cab with v30s, I hit the front end pretty hard with an OD pedal to get the gain up to scratch but I'm always using the onboard power scaling to knock the amp back to 10w to get it to sound decent at a quiet volume!!! But to me as much as its controllable it doesn't sound as good as it does at 50w, but this is wayyy too loud and even then it doesn't break up very well.

I'd really like an amp that I can cook in the practice room with my band but not deafen everyone in the room and get a solid medium to high gain rock tone from. I've been looking at an Orange AD-30 hoping that it would be a little quieter than my Marshal Origin 50H and so I could crank it a bit more.... also had a look at the TH-30, does anyone use these in this context?

I'm just after a solid heavy rock guitar tone that hits that valve sweet spot without deafening the whole band, but still have enough volume for gigs!

Any suggestions would be amazing, especially from anyone who plays hard rock through an Orange, I know its subjective, but I can't blow the bollocks off every guitar shop in search of my ideal tone...

Thanks guys
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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🎧 10 years
Practice is about compromise, especially in smaller rehearsal rooms. While you could get a 20 watt amp, turning down and changing the OD pedal settings, your volume and master volume with your current set up will get you there. Or find an OD pedal that gives you a better version of the sound you want at lower volumes.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I don't care what kind of rig you have, whether tube, SS, or digital, there is a sound and feel that comes with moving LOTS of air at high pressure levels that can be experienced NO other way. We can get somewhat close by choosing lower wattage amps and/or effects but it will always be an approximation.

This is easy to verify by even recorded sound. Again, I don't care how much low end EQ you add on listening to Vinyl, tape, Cds, DVDs, BluRay... you name it, is not going to sound and feel the same at 80db as it does at 120db and recorded audio is compressed and more amenable to "smooth out" level scaling. Your guitar rig is not, even if you always play at full legato level of compression and especially through a tube amp that by nature is soft compression. It's one of the major reasons that live and loud, SS and digital do not completely stack up to tubes.

Practice isn't supposed to be dress rehearsal. Dress rehearsal for a Music act must be in a similar environment as the real deal for it to sound and feel the same.

Your only solution to even get closer to live is to sonically treat your practice space to be less reverberant or at the very least resort to instrument isolation via baffle panels. One can accomplish quite a lot with even 50 bux worth of such panels if you "checkerboard" them on the walls or construct movable panels.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlamacintyre95 ➡️
Hey guys,

I practice with my stoner rock band with a Marshall Origin 50H out a 4x12 cab with v30s, I hit the front end pretty hard with an OD pedal to get the gain up to scratch but I'm always using the onboard power scaling to knock the amp back to 10w to get it to sound decent at a quiet volume!!! But to me as much as its controllable it doesn't sound as good as it does at 50w, but this is wayyy too loud and even then it doesn't break up very well.

I'd really like an amp that I can cook in the practice room with my band but not deafen everyone in the room and get a solid medium to high gain rock tone from. I've been looking at an Orange AD-30 hoping that it would be a little quieter than my Marshal Origin 50H and so I could crank it a bit more.... also had a look at the TH-30, does anyone use these in this context?

I'm just after a solid heavy rock guitar tone that hits that valve sweet spot without deafening the whole band, but still have enough volume for gigs!

Any suggestions would be amazing, especially from anyone who plays hard rock through an Orange, I know its subjective, but I can't blow the bollocks off every guitar shop in search of my ideal tone...

Thanks guys
Yeah, the New World Order sucks.
I was in the rock band scene in the 80's where taking a Marshall stack to a pub gig was normal and annoying your neighbours when you practiced was normal also.

Welcome to the new world order where being kind and responsible to your neighbours is the way it has to be.
And a good thing too.
This isn't a popular opinion but I would check out some digital modelling amps. Others HATE them, I think they are great. They suit the new world order far better than 50 watt tube amps do and they really do produce some great tones, especially at the grunge end.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
Many years back I lived in the country outside of Tallahassee - and perhaps about a mile from my nearest neighbor. But on the weekends, I could well hear their band practicing too.

Since then, I've turned the practice volume way down, but I still love my Marshall 100w.

Sometimes I have to target lower volume even with my Yamaha Nylon string [which is strictly acoustic] to accommodate others.

Such is the nature of compromise.

But I still do prefer to practice with the instruments, amps, etc. that I intend to use for performance.


It's not precisely the same; but it makes me feel more comfortable.

Ray H.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
I would recommend getting a lower-wattage tube amp. I have a Super Reverb that I had a 44w/22w switch installed on and even at half watts, it's WAY too loud for most applications. We have a fairly loud drummer and have never had an issue practicing with a 15w Princeton or even smaller 5w amps run through a larger 2x12 cab. And the tone just sounds like rock & roll. Nearly any gig the amp would be/could be mic'd up so lack of volume has never an issue, at least in the smaller clubs/bars we play.



Z
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG ➡️
Yeah, the New World Order sucks.
I was in the rock band scene in the 80's where taking a Marshall stack to a pub gig was normal and annoying your neighbours when you practiced was normal also.

Welcome to the new world order where being kind and responsible to your neighbours is the way it has to be.
And a good thing too.
.......
So true! At 16 in 76 I got away with 100w PA amp (Selmer Treble and bass) and a 4x12" cab in my bedroom at full blast. That was stupidly loud.

78-80 in a punk band we rehearsed in a very small (12ft wide) terraced house from 6pm to 10pm at full volume with a maniac drummer. At 10pm we went to the pub about 5 doors away. They'd say " Lucky you only arrived when you did, you'd have had to shout your order earlier" Oops. It didn't stop us. Nobody actually really minded, they must have known it was us, nobody ever complained. If they had, we'd have stopped.

A few decades later One of my kids had a band in our half cellar. You could hear them for 3-4 houses down outside. Then again one neighbour was the cathedral organist and belted away on his piano in a garden room (we loved it!) and the other had parties with bands in her garden. These were in town centre, 30ft wide properties.

I don't think people becoming less tolerant, particularly of the younger generation, is a good thing. At my age I wouldn't dream of disturbing others but those young 'uns? I'm a lot more tolerant, I was young once.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There is considerable difference in requirements to make a practice room sound good to the band vs/ those for isolation for you neighbors and it all boils down mostly to mass.

If your practice area is in a concrete basement you're in luck since both can reasonably be achieved for between $100-$300 depending on how close and how crabby your neighbors are. Even $50 USD can go a very long way to please most bands.

Garages, or any above ground 2x4 wood construction is a lot harder for neighbor isolation and a lot more expensive but even that can be accomplished to a very reasonable degree for well under $1000 for a rat-trap room with bat ear neighbors. A major reduction can be achieved in most cases for under half that.



and



are examples of materials that are relatively cheap and do a decent job. It isn't necessary to cover 100% surface area to improve band sound. 20% will often do. For neighbors that ramps up to 60-80% assuming you also pay attention to doors and windows.

The reason for costs as high as 1000 bux for common above-ground wood structures for neighbor's pleasure is usually you will need an extra layer of sheetrock.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #9
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 ➡️
I don't care what kind of rig you have, whether tube, SS, or digital, there is a sound and feel that comes with moving LOTS of air at high pressure levels that can be experienced NO other way. We can get somewhat close by choosing lower wattage amps and/or effects but it will always be an approximation.

This is easy to verify by even recorded sound. Again, I don't care how much low end EQ you add on listening to Vinyl, tape, Cds, DVDs, BluRay... you name it, is not going to sound and feel the same at 80db as it does at 120db and recorded audio is compressed and more amenable to "smooth out" level scaling. Your guitar rig is not, even if you always play at full legato level of compression and especially through a tube amp that by nature is soft compression. It's one of the major reasons that live and loud, SS and digital do not completely stack up to tubes.

Practice isn't supposed to be dress rehearsal. Dress rehearsal for a Music act must be in a similar environment as the real deal for it to sound and feel the same.

Your only solution to even get closer to live is to sonically treat your practice space to be less reverberant or at the very least resort to instrument isolation via baffle panels. One can accomplish quite a lot with even 50 bux worth of such panels if you "checkerboard" them on the walls or construct movable panels.
Well, there's one other possibility - get a little amp just for practice. Something around 15 watts.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #10
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG ➡️
This isn't a popular opinion but I would check out some digital modelling amps. Others HATE them, I think they are great. They suit the new world order far better than 50 watt tube amps do and they really do produce some great tones, especially at the grunge end.
Ick.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #11
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John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith Baker ➡️
I would recommend getting a lower-wattage tube amp. I have a Super Reverb that I had a 44w/22w switch installed on and even at half watts, it's WAY too loud for most applications. We have a fairly loud drummer and have never had an issue practicing with a 15w Princeton or even smaller 5w amps run through a larger 2x12 cab. And the tone just sounds like rock & roll. Nearly any gig the amp would be/could be mic'd up so lack of volume has never an issue, at least in the smaller clubs/bars we play.



Z
HHMmmm.

Given that a Super Reverb only has two output tubes I can't quite imagine how that half power switch would work, but I'd bet that it compromises tone.

Most (Classic) Fender derived amps with a half power switch do it by lifting ground on the inner pair of tubes. That does it with minimal effect on the tone, but obviously won't work of you don't have 4 output tubes.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Well, there's one other possibility - get a little amp just for practice. Something around 15 watts.
Since I was quoted, please notice that I did mention that in the very first couple of sentences.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
HHMmmm.

Given that a Super Reverb only has two output tubes I can't quite imagine how that half power switch would work, but I'd bet that it compromises tone.

Most (Classic) Fender derived amps with a half power switch do it by lifting ground on the inner pair of tubes. That does it with minimal effect on the tone, but obviously won't work of you don't have 4 output tubes.
There are ways to drop a single pair of output tubes to around half power, one is drop them to triode operation, another is drop the B+ and B- on the power stage, there are more but all of them affect tone.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 ➡️
There is considerable difference in requirements to make a practice room sound good to the band vs/ those for isolation for you neighbors and it all boils down mostly to mass.

If your practice area is in a concrete basement you're in luck since both can reasonably be achieved for between $100-$300 depending on how close and how crabby your neighbors are. Even $50 USD can go a very long way to please most bands.

Garages, or any above ground 2x4 wood construction is a lot harder for neighbor isolation and a lot more expensive but even that can be accomplished to a very reasonable degree for well under $1000 for a rat-trap room with bat ear neighbors. A major reduction can be achieved in most cases for under half that.



and



are examples of materials that are relatively cheap and do a decent job. It isn't necessary to cover 100% surface area to improve band sound. 20% will often do. For neighbors that ramps up to 60-80% assuming you also pay attention to doors and windows.

The reason for costs as high as 1000 bux for common above-ground wood structures for neighbor's pleasure is usually you will need an extra layer of sheetrock.
this isn't necessarily the answer. I've practiced in recording rooms that were soundproofed so that you couldn't be heard on the other side of the glass in the control room, but loud is still loud, and even a 40 watt Bandmaster was too loud - then the drummer plays louder, and you're left with a volume war. Also most acoustic foam does little to nothing - I wouldn't waste time on it until the rest of the room had already been treated with bass traps, etc.

Practice is about learning the songs. We use a rehearsal studio that has a PA, has a drum kit where you bring your own cymbals, and they have some backline. Would I rather play through my Dr. Z or vintage Fenders vs. a Line 6 Spider? Sure, but a) the Line 6 is there and I can bring my pedalboard; and b) set to clean the Spider isn't horrible for practice.

Turn down, get an attenuator, try a different overdrive, but room treatment can make the problem just as bad because you don't get the reflections, and people still turn up.

Other suggestion to the OP - what direction are your amps facing? If you're not facing each other and pretending it's a show, you'll have to be a lot louder than if you're firing the amps across to each other. But that also means you have to listen to your bandmates...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Why are Valve amps so difficult to practice with!!!



They aren't if you have one that's the right size for practice.

15 watts is plenty if you are looking to crank an amp up... more than that is bringing nuclear weapons to a knife fight.

If you like the sound and impact of a big amp playing at 110db+ you just might not be happy with a smaller amp but it's not really the fault of the amp it's simply about how the human ear and perception of sound works.

Super high volume you can just feel. It pushes on your chest, causes your pant legs move in the breeze, and makes your parts tingle.

A smaller amp or an attenuator can sound great but isn't going to feel like that.

50 and 100 watt amps originally were intended for bands who were playing to an audience of hundreds or even thousands of people not someone in a 12x12 foot bedroom or a band in a 20x20 practice space.

If you are cranking a 100 watt amp and you don't have a bomb shelter of a building you are not practicing but giving a concert.

If neighbors complain then it's you that is out of control not them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Odd, both my Marshall and Super reverb sound great on 1. If it's power section breakup you're after, grab an attenuator.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I agree neodrama but I did differentiate. There is a distinct difference is soundproofing and acoustivoicing for a deader, flatter response. Reducing reverberant levels and standing waves won't do anything much for your neighbors but it surely can clean up practice, assuming pro attitudes and proclivities..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #18
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Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
If you like the sound and impact of a big amp playing at 110db+ you just might not be happy with a smaller amp but it's not really the fault of the amp it's simply about how the human ear and perception of sound works.

Super high volume you can just feel. It pushes on your chest, causes your pant legs move in the breeze, and makes your parts tingle.

A smaller amp or an attenuator can sound great but isn't going to feel like that.

50 and 100 watt amps originally were intended for bands who were playing to an audience of hundreds or even thousands of people not someone in a 12x12 foot bedroom or a band in a 20x20 practice space.

If you are cranking a 100 watt amp and you don't have a bomb shelter of a building you are not practicing but giving a concert.

If neighbors complain then it's you that is out of control not them.
I agree with all of this, but the educator in me can’t resist the warning to the OP - at a 120 dB, you’re going deaf.

At 90db for a duration (which escapes me at the moment), you’re causing irreversible damage to your hearing.

You may not know it, but you are, you’re going to wake up one morning and that ringing in your ears won’t subside, you’ll be asking people to repeat themselves, and you’ll notice the dialogue in tv shows harder to understand.

Please wear ear protection - then you can turn up, “feel it” and hopefully keep hearing the music you love.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 ➡️
I agree with all of this, but the educator in me can’t resist the warning to the OP - at a 120 dB, you’re going deaf.

At 90db for a duration (which escapes me at the moment), you’re causing irreversible damage to your hearing.

You may not know it, but you are, you’re going to wake up one morning and that ringing in your ears won’t subside, you’ll be asking people to repeat themselves, and you’ll notice the dialogue in tv shows harder to understand.

Please wear ear protection - then you can turn up, “feel it” and hopefully keep hearing the music you love.
Yes, warning about this is quite reasonable.

High volumes especially for extended periods are dangerous to one's hearing and because of that worthy of giving thought to if you play loud.

I try to keep things under a 100db SPL and take breaks.

With drum mufflers and Zildjian L80 cymbals the sound kind of sucks but you can keep practices down in the 80db range.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLast ➡️
[. . .] If you are cranking a 100 watt amp and you don't have a bomb shelter of a building you are not practicing but giving a concert. [. . .]
Funny! And mostly true?

As an a juvenile, I’m certain that I would have been found guilty. The volume was up!

As a ‘grown man’, I was kind of like Tim ‘Tool Time’ Taylor: More power!

As an old timer, I still love playing and practicing through my 100w half-stack Marshall. It just feels right for me.

Most of my neighbors don’t have the slightest clue that I am, or ever was, a musician: Great sound isolation and good manners.


Otherwise, I keep the electric bill down.

Ray H.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #21
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Muser's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
not sure if I trust this guy. he could be an axe murderer for all I know

Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
IMO, nothing sounds as great as a cranked 50 or 100 watt tube amp but a 20 watt amp cranked will sound better than a 50 watt amp scaled back.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #23
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enorbet2's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 ➡️
I agree with all of this, but the educator in me can’t resist the warning to the OP - at a 120 dB, you’re going deaf.

At 90db for a duration (which escapes me at the moment), you’re causing irreversible damage to your hearing.

You may not know it, but you are, you’re going to wake up one morning and that ringing in your ears won’t subside, you’ll be asking people to repeat themselves, and you’ll notice the dialogue in tv shows harder to understand.

Please wear ear protection - then you can turn up, “feel it” and hopefully keep hearing the music you love.
This vast generalization is as bad as assuming no sound can damage anyone's hearing. It's just not thorough or accurate.

Thee Who got "Loudest Band" in 1976 being measured at 126db (MUCH louder than 120db) AND over 100 feet from the speakers! Pete Townshend over time did suffer from tinnitus but not everyone in the band did and since 1976 many bands have produced vastly louder SPLs, Kiss in 2009 logged 136db, literally on the level of the absolute threshold of actual physical pain for any and every one. None of these bands have gone stone deaf... some damaged Yes, all damaged - No and this is orders of magnitude louder that 120db.

Should amplified musicians wear ear protection? Maybe. It depends. If you think 90db is loud you're not only too squeamish, or too old (in the head, not years) you are ill informed. If you think you need protection at 90db you are unaware of how much 90db you are commonly exposed to.

Numerous household appliances are in excess of 100db. Street noise can exceed that. Unamplified stadium crowds have hit 142db!!! A wailing baby can easily hit 110db. Some squeeze toys hit 135db. Unamplified symphony orchestras average around 110db. Your car's horn exceeds 100db, some are over 110db.

Specific to rock bands, I played an average of 4 sets , 4 nights a week (some years, 6 nights) for over a decade at 110db on average. It was only after the 70s we often measured it but it felt like it had during the 60s and I was using essentially the same gear.

I tried human hair spring reactive ear protection and hated them... never wore them again. Simple cotton balls were worse.

In addition to playing out and loud practice, I play my 700+ watt bi-amped stereo near live levels. I'm 74 years old, can still hear pretty flat response to 16K but do have some difficulties in the low midrange when guys are not facing me BUT I'm 74!!. I have no idea if what loss I detect is from mere old age or playing in loud bands, but it was worth it.

Would it be worth it for you? You probably won't find out since so few musicians get to play above 100db anymore but if you are so lucky as to be able to play at that volume, IMHO you should try a few protection options to see if any work for you. Better safe than sorry, right? If you feel any discomfort that you perceive as pain then you certainly should or at least rearrange your band.

The only time I ever felt discomfort with volume was one drummer's cymbals. Simply setting up further from the kit solved that and it only took about 1 meter or 3 feet.

Be aware SPLs can cause damage but don't panic and don't blindly (deafly?) buy into government stats because they have to avoid lawsuits from the lowest common denominator and sleazebags looking for a free lunch. If I could not play with a band averaging at least 100db I wouldn't have played. I've walked out in disgust even recently from clubs that have turned good bands into background music.

Do what you like but I'm with Bill Hicks on this subject. I think Corporate Approved Rock 'n Roll is an oxymoron. Go Big or Go Home.,,,or what's the point?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Try using the full 50 watts with a volume pedal in the FX loop.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 ➡️
This vast generalization is as bad as assuming no sound can damage anyone's hearing. It's just not thorough or accurate.

Thee Who got "Loudest Band" in 1976 being measured at 126db (MUCH louder than 120db) AND over 100 feet from the speakers! Pete Townshend over time did suffer from tinnitus but not everyone in the band did and since 1976 many bands have produced vastly louder SPLs, Kiss in 2009 logged 136db, literally on the level of the absolute threshold of actual physical pain for any and every one. None of these bands have gone stone deaf... some damaged Yes, all damaged - No and this is orders of magnitude louder that 120db.

Should amplified musicians wear ear protection? Maybe. It depends. If you think 90db is loud you're not only too squeamish, or too old (in the head, not years) you are ill informed. If you think you need protection at 90db you are unaware of how much 90db you are commonly exposed to.

Numerous household appliances are in excess of 100db. Street noise can exceed that. Unamplified stadium crowds have hit 142db!!! A wailing baby can easily hit 110db. Some squeeze toys hit 135db. Unamplified symphony orchestras average around 110db. Your car's horn exceeds 100db, some are over 110db.

Specific to rock bands, I played an average of 4 sets , 4 nights a week (some years, 6 nights) for over a decade at 110db on average. It was only after the 70s we often measured it but it felt like it had during the 60s and I was using essentially the same gear.

I tried human hair spring reactive ear protection and hated them... never wore them again. Simple cotton balls were worse.

In addition to playing out and loud practice, I play my 700+ watt bi-amped stereo near live levels. I'm 74 years old, can still hear pretty flat response to 16K but do have some difficulties in the low midrange when guys are not facing me BUT I'm 74!!. I have no idea if what loss I detect is from mere old age or playing in loud bands, but it was worth it.

Would it be worth it for you? You probably won't find out since so few musicians get to play above 100db anymore but if you are so lucky as to be able to play at that volume, IMHO you should try a few protection options to see if any work for you. Better safe than sorry, right? If you feel any discomfort that you perceive as pain then you certainly should or at least rearrange your band.

The only time I ever felt discomfort with volume was one drummer's cymbals. Simply setting up further from the kit solved that and it only took about 1 meter or 3 feet.

Be aware SPLs can cause damage but don't panic and don't blindly (deafly?) buy into government stats because they have to avoid lawsuits from the lowest common denominator and sleazebags looking for a free lunch. If I could not play with a band averaging at least 100db I wouldn't have played. I've walked out in disgust even recently from clubs that have turned good bands into background music.

Do what you like but I'm with Bill Hicks on this subject. I think Corporate Approved Rock 'n Roll is an oxymoron. Go Big or Go Home.,,,or what's the point?
Yes, sound levels and hearing damage is complicated and not so easy to sort out.

90db is the beginning of loud and as you move your way to 120 as well as being exposed for extended periods of time it really can be an actual hazard.

You are downplaying the issue a lot. If the horn on a car is 110db at some particular distance that's simply not comparable to playing music at that level. How often does anyone stand in front of a car with the horn blowing at them???

The fact that nobody in their right mind wants to listen to a car horn at 110db for any amount of time should be a clue that music at that level for hours might be a problem.

The danger of sound doing damage is a combination of intensity, duration and the individual involved.

My uncle smoked two packs of Camel cigarettes his entire life and managed to live to 86.

This fact does not prove that smoking is ok for one's health, likewise people who are exposed to loud sounds and have "little" (whatever that means exactly) hearing loss aren't proof that overexposure to very loud sound is meaningless and should be ignored.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
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I've used both my Hayden Mofo (15W) and Epiphone Valve Jnr (5W) in large practice room plugged into my Blackstar 2x12 and I had no problems competing with a loud drummer - particularly with the Hayden - Valve amps are loud - even little ones!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #27
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kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 ➡️
Since I was quoted, please notice that I did mention that in the very first couple of sentences.
Yeah... no mystery. Simple solution. There are tons of great sounding low wattage amps available.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
Loudness has a lot to do with speaker efficiency too. A low efficiency speaker+cab can be 30dB quieter than a high efficiency speaker+cab. Also, headroom. A 30W amp used by a Jazz guitarist who is well below clipping will be moderate in volume, but cranked into saturation by a punk rocker it will be very loud. As a result, the relationship between watts and volume is tenuous.

But, you are there to practice. It's not your mission to blow the roof off and impress everybody with your tone. Especially pointless if your amazing tone is so loud that nobody can hear anything clearly. Just turn it down so you sit in the mix of instruments comfortably. Hearing all instruments clearly improves results at rehearsals.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
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Oldone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree with John, you need to think smaller when trying to get tone in a small room so you can push it to the edge. Trying to curb a loud amp/high watts is generally a compromise. Small room, small amp. Big room, big amp. If you're playing with a drummer and bass player who dominate you in a small room, they have to play easier or find a bigger room.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser ➡️
[. . .] he could be an axe murderer for all I know [. . .]
Thanks, @ Muser -

I'm desperately more frighted by ice picks - when I was young they were everywhere!

A JVM Series JVM410H head with a slant top half stack cabinet has been my main performance - and practice - amp for more than a decade. It's a highly configurable amp with respect to tone. And I can always dial in something that works for me regardless of room size.

But I expect with the more popular Marshalls, the volume effects pedal trick is a thing to try.


Psycho still gives me the willies,

Ray H.
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