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Line Audio CM3 Vs. Schoeps MK21
Old 3rd November 2015 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard ➡️
No distributors, pre-polarized capsules, very low overheads and in my opinion, very humble margins, result in very low end user pricing. Please keep in mind the bodies are simple single Aluminum sleeves so there's no modularity. Schoeps offer a complete modular system with excellent mechanical tolerances and beautifully made DC polarized capsules, constant R&D, a distributor network and higher margins, resulting in a much higher end user price, but still justified, IMHO. The problem today is that we are all biased by the price of the cheap Chinese knockoffs.
I noticed on your website that you'll match a group of four of them. Very cool.

There are some excellent, original, low cost Chinese-made mics, the SE Vr-1 for example.
Old 3rd November 2015
  #62
Company Rep
 
jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It doesn't take me long, because the tolerances are already pretty damn good. so once in a while I put one aside for later testing but usually, I'd say that out of 10, at least 9 will be perfectly matched, straight out of the box from Line Audio. I often get requests for 4, 6 or sometimes 8 identical CM3's or OM1's, it's worth checking that they do match well before shipping, I hate having to return products and I don't expect my customer to have to do so!
Old 3rd November 2015 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yep that reflects my experience. I have a quad each of CM3 and OM1. If memory serves me one of four is a little bit off bit we are talking less than a dB in a small range. Not many situations where that would be audible.

Close to perfect match and these were just picked from the shelf.

Someone I know made "matching tests" of AKG414 and Neumann TLM103 some years ago (5-10 each or so I think). The Neumanns were more or less identical while the spread within the AKG group was 2-3dB or something like that.

I wouldn't mind a pair of 414 though, I think they are excellent mic's. Slightly loose QC may explain why people report so differently when using/testing these mic's though.

Some of the best recordings I have heard were made with 414.. several versions of 414, I know.
Old 3rd November 2015
  #64
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jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if a modern 414, with its plastic capsule construction, had looser tolerances than the earlier all metal construction but NOT the 50's type CK12, those were all over the place in terms of frequ. response. I heard from reliable sources that current Neumann capsules have wider tolerances including the classic K67 type capsules... but again, in day to day use, it probably won't matter much. Try this with the typical Chinese import and see what kind of trouble you end up with
Old 31st October 2016
  #65
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
the recording on youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1xcRg0he18

is this the recording?
Old 4th November 2016 | Show parent
  #66
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DaveyJones's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundtrane ➡️
Yes that's the one - I hope you enjoyed! We had great coverage from Gramophone magazine, especially noting the sound of the recording which was great for me as producer/engineer.



Dave
Old 5th November 2016 | Show parent
  #67
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJones ➡️
Yes that's the one - I hope you enjoyed!
Dave
Of course, it is a great recording...
Old 6th November 2016 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJones ➡️
Yes that's the one - I hope you enjoyed! We had great coverage from Gramophone magazine, especially noting the sound of the recording which was great for me as producer/engineer.
Dave
It does sound good, I have ordered it. I love solo violin. Which mics did you use for the recording in the end?
Old 5th November 2017
  #69
Gear Nut
 
Will Blackburn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
im about to buy 2 Cm3's for an upcoming church choir recording Can anyone recommend a good position to use the cm3s in and what kind of stands should i get for them?
Old 5th November 2017 | Show parent
  #70
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brhoward's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Blackburn ➡️
im about to buy 2 Cm3's for an upcoming church choir recording Can anyone recommend a good position to use the cm3s in and what kind of stands should i get for them?
Try your CM3's in ORTF. This will give excellent results for choir. Make sure to leave time for positioning the mics, listening back, and repositioning them until it sounds the best it can.

ORTF is 17cm apart at an angle of 110º.
Old 5th November 2017 | Show parent
  #71
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dickiefunk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I’d also recommend ORTF.

I would first spend some time listening to the choir whilst standing in various different places to hear where the sweet spot is for balance and tone. I would then place the mics at this spot and have them positioned at a suitable height so that they can be angled down slightly to point towards as many of the choirs mouths as possible using ORTF.
Old 5th November 2017 | Show parent
  #72
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Will Blackburn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brhoward ➡️
Try your CM3's in ORTF. This will give excellent results for choir. Make sure to leave time for positioning the mics, listening back, and repositioning them until it sounds the best it can.

ORTF is 17cm apart at an angle of 110º.
Thanks brhoward, appreciate the reply. Can you recommend any stands worth looking at?
Old 5th November 2017
  #73
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spambot_2's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I've gotten better results with a NOS (like) positioning with my CM3's, but obviously it mostly depends on the space and angle you want to record.
You might want to read up the "stereophonic zoom" paper and listen to the vast array of audio samples you can find in the CM3 thread in this same section.
Old 6th November 2017
  #74
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jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm still partial to K&M stands and other hardware bits, but I understand there are other options if you're in the USA.
Old 6th November 2017 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Nut
 
Will Blackburn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks all for replies. Here's the church i'm recording in, sorry its a small image. Im guessing there's going to be an issue with placing the mic in the middle distracting the audience. The choir will be stood just where the first step is. The organ is hidden on the left wall which will be behind the choir. and the only other mics i have are the Sm7b and Behringer ecm8000, would any of those work on the organ?. Are there any less intrusive ways i could record this? The choir director has just said use a zoom recorder (which i dont have) but i really want to test these cm3s out.

Is there no way i could use the cm3's nearer the floor?

https://prnt.sc/h6wxct
Old 7th November 2017
  #76
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jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The CM3's are small enough - they won't distract the audience, no worries!
Old 7th November 2017 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Blackburn ➡️
i have are the Sm7b and Behringer ecm8000, would any of those work on the organ?.
The Behringer ECM8000 actually has a quite extended low frequency response, which would be good for the organ. The high frequency end can be a little noisy (hissy) due to the miniscule capsule size of the mic (self-noise comes into play), but you can roll off the treble end a bit to compensate.

If you have a spare channel on your interface, why not include the ECM8000...it could give you some valuable low-end weight to the organ. If it's of no use, nothing lost...just discard that track
Old 7th November 2017 | Show parent
  #78
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DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Blackburn ➡️
Thanks brhoward, appreciate the reply. Can you recommend any stands worth looking at?
Manfrotto light stands FTW!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...r_3_Riser.html
Old 7th November 2017 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Nut
 
Will Blackburn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard ➡️
The CM3's are small enough - they won't distract the audience, no worries!
It's more the stand or stands im worried about (as i dont own any yet) As this is my first recording of this nature i would love to just buy one stand, plonk it in the middle behind the conductor/choir master using a stereo bar so i can easily do whichever pattern. But if it's got to be the two stand route, one either side, i'll have to buy larger booms and im still not sure i could fit one on the left side anyway because it's against the wall :/
Old 6th December 2018 | Show parent
  #80
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Only now came to listen to these examples, because I was considering buying the CM3's for low profile spotmiking.

I clearly prefer the Schoeps in the example because they lack the midrange distortion of the CM3, but they are certainly very good for the price.

I amplified the CM3 file with 0.17 dB to be just as loud as the Schoeps, but the classy sound of the Schoeps is in another league.

I was hoping that they might outshine my modified Oktava's, but I am not sure they will. I will look for more comparisons.

BTW, I am really impressed by the youtube presentation of the Villsmayr recording! What a beatiful played and recorded cd. I will buy it! Thanks to both the Joneses for that.
Old 8th February 2022
  #81
Deleted aad739e
Guest
Line sounds SO compressed then I looked up the specs to see that I was right in my assumption. It has a sweeter sound though.
Old 8th February 2022 | Show parent
  #82
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DaveyJones's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted aad739e ➡️
Line sounds SO compressed then I looked up the specs to see that I was right in my assumption. It has a sweeter sound though.
What do you mean by “SO compressed”. Do you
Mean it sounds like it’s been put through a limiter or something?
I have to say I’ve never found that. Please enlighten me.
Old 9th February 2022 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJones ➡️
Yes that's the one - I hope you enjoyed! We had great coverage from Gramophone magazine, especially noting the sound of the recording which was great for me as producer/engineer.



Dave
Sounds great Dave....which of the mics made it into the final mix ? Just a single pair, or mains plus spots ?
Old 9th February 2022 | Show parent
  #84
Deleted aad739e
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJones ➡️
What do you mean by “SO compressed”. Do you
Mean it sounds like it’s been put through a limiter or something?
I have to say I’ve never found that. Please enlighten me.
Yes it has less dynamic range than schoeps. I like more open sounding mics and from the samples you've provided I thought Schoeps does it way better.
Old 13th February 2022 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Addict
 
DaveyJones's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Sounds great Dave....which of the mics made it into the final mix ? Just a single pair, or mains plus spots ?
Hi Studer58,

I had the MK21s on loan because the MK4s I had ordered weren't in stock. I ended up using the Line Audio mics (not in the position shown and demonstrated in this example), along with a Telefunken CU29 tube mic and a pair of Gefell M221 omnis.
In order of why the recording sounded good:
Fantastic musician.
Very good acoustics in the room.
Decent music (my opinion) that leads a pleasing sound.
Good mic placement.
Good microphones.

Probably could have gotten a very good result using only Line Audio (CM3 and OM1)...
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