Quantcast
Line level attenuator - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Line level attenuator
Old 9th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Line level attenuator

Hi All,

I used my Zoom H2 to record a gig from the line-out on the mixer last night (into the line-in on the H2)

The recording level is -6dB but it's clipped. I understand mixers typically run at higher voltage than consumer audio, so I think I need attenuation. I see I can buy line level attenuators in a variety of levels, from -1 to -12 db.

My question are, a) will attenuators fix this issue, and b) if so, then how much attenuation do I need?

Thanks!
Old 9th September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
JLiRD808's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
U sure u couldnt just turn the volume down on the 'line out' of the mixer? Is there a headphone output on the H2 so that u could monitor for clipping next time?
Old 9th September 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
camerondye's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have the Audio Technica ones and they have been great for many years without fail. I also have 2 Hosa ones that are cheaper but have worked fine also but they don't feel as stout as the AT ones.

The H2 is ran a bit too hot IMO, I run my band practice at a really low gain and it still seems loud and I couldn't imagine if I was in a louder band.
Old 9th September 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Richard Crowley's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You didn't say what the signal level was. You also didn't reveal what your record levels were set at. Without that information it is impossible to predict whether you need attenuators or not.
Old 9th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
scruffydog's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Useful line level attenuation for me have been -20db (might be my first port of call)...-30db ( worth having around ! ) and even -40db at times.
I would say be bold with attenuation....-20 db is a very good start given that it soon becomes costly to have a selection available.


This is a very good brand...not exactly cheap but very good quality...you may also need to work out your XLR to jack or mini jack requirements to complete the feed to the line level recording inputs.

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/20...-20dB-200-ohms
Old 9th September 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Isnt the zoom instrument in ?
Thats not line level.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
scruffydog's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 ➑️
Isnt the zoom instrument in ?
Thats not line level.
No it has line level mini jack input also.
pad the feed to that down and it will be fine.
Old 9th September 2012
  #8
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
All the Zoom recorders I've tried (H2, H4n, Q3HD, H2n, R16) have "line" inputs that are too sensitive to take a normal mixer tape out.

I use this adjustable attenuator: Electronics Plus - Hard to find parts and accessories, available and ready to ship!

Fran
Old 10th September 2012
  #9
Gear Addict
 
OzGizmo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why not build your own.... there are only a few cents worth of components in them......
Uneeda Audio - Build your own attenuator pads
Old 10th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLiRD808 ➑️
U sure u couldnt just turn the volume down on the 'line out' of the mixer? Is there a headphone output on the H2 so that u could monitor for clipping next time?
The line out on the mixer does not have a trim pot, as far as I can see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrowley ➑️
You didn't say what the signal level was. You also didn't reveal what your record levels were set at. Without that information it is impossible to predict whether you need attenuators or not.
The signal is whatever comes out of the mixer's line level output. Is there an easy way to measure it? Isn't there a standard for live sound mixers wrt line level?

The record level was set at 80. I don't see how that makes any difference. As I said, peaks were at -6 dB.
Old 10th September 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Zoom recorders - H2 and H2n are the ones I have - need to see a -10 consumer level input. For those who don't know, the H2n is a -10 input when the inplut volume it all the way down, and you just turn it up for a mic input. It does overload the input stages on pro mixers, even those with RCA outputs. I have switchable attenuators on XLRs, but the little adjustable one above looks pretty good for the purpose!

The menu-ajusted digital attenuator in the old H2 does not affect the input sensitivity - leave it at 100 and you will know if you are overloading the input. 10 or 20 dB attenuator should do the trick...
Old 11th September 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Jimbo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Buy these attenuators: Naiant - Inline Devices

Inexpensive, reliable, and well built!

[edit: Nevermind. I didn't realize he was dealing with RCA]
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran Guidry ➑️
All the Zoom recorders I've tried (H2, H4n, Q3HD, H2n, R16) have "line" inputs that are too sensitive to take a normal mixer tape out.

I use this adjustable attenuator: Electronics Plus - Hard to find parts and accessories, available and ready to ship!

Fran
I went to order this - and found that this online store is the electronics store in my area - so I'm going to go over and pick it up tomorrow. GREAT store to have in the neighborhood!
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Tallowah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by piper ➑️
The line out on the mixer does not have a trim pot, as far as I can see.




The signal is whatever comes out of the mixer's line level output. Is there an easy way to measure it? Isn't there a standard for live sound mixers wrt line level?

The record level was set at 80. I don't see how that makes any difference. As I said, peaks were at -6 dB.
I've never owned a mixer which didn't have some type of LED/VU meter to "read/show" output levels, OR one which didn't have a pot/slider to adjust output V. Does it just have a "fixed" gain??? Maybe I'm missing something here?

You can measure it with a simple DVM!



`
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallowah ➑️
I've never owned a mixer which didn't have some type of LED/VU meter to "read/show" output levels, OR one which didn't have a pot/slider to adjust output V. Does it just have a "fixed" gain??? Maybe I'm missing something here?
If there is a way to adjust the level of the "tape output" I don't know what it is:

Behringer: EUROPOWER PMP6000
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallowah ➑️
I've never owned a mixer which didn't have some type of LED/VU meter to "read/show" output levels, OR one which didn't have a pot/slider to adjust output V. Does it just have a "fixed" gain??? Maybe I'm missing something here?
The problem isn't on the mixer side. As noted above in the thread, the Zoom recorders are known to have problems handling a full +4 line output from a balanced source like a mixer output.

You can reduce the master volume on the mixer to compensate, but using an inline attenuator means you can run the mixer at whatever levels you'd normally use. Recording from a line level source isn't something you're supposed to have to worry about, so this just takes care of the problem.
Old 11th September 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
this is what I use when I need to attenuate line level sources: ATTY Stereo Attenuator | A-Designs Audio

--Ben
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallowah ➑️
I've never owned a mixer which didn't have some type of LED/VU meter to "read/show" output levels, OR one which didn't have a pot/slider to adjust output V. Does it just have a "fixed" gain??? Maybe I'm missing something here?

You can measure it with a simple DVM!



`
The problem is that we're tapping a mixer that someone else is using to mix FOH and/or monitor sound. They're not interested in adjusting to our needs, they have their own job to do and we're just borrowing an output. And that output (tape out usually) has no level control.

Fran
Old 11th September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foldedpath ➑️
The problem isn't on the mixer side. As noted above in the thread, the Zoom recorders are known to have problems handling a full +4 line output from a balanced source like a mixer output.

You can reduce the master volume on the mixer to compensate,
The "tape out" is not affected by the master fader. For good reason too. If the venue gets louder and I bring up the master you don't want that in the recording!

Also, it's not a balanced output -- it's line level RCA jacks. They're just hotter than the zoom can handle.
Old 12th September 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Almost no live mixer has a separate control for the tape out (Especially a Bhery!). In fact, only one I have seen in 40 years has had one. The $!7.50 attentuator shown from Electronics Plus is exactly what is needed here, not a balanced XLR one, nor one to build.
Electronics Plus - Hard to find parts and accessories, available and ready to ship!

Just simple, nothing more to say.
Old 12th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson ➑️
Almost no live mixer has a separate control for the tape out (Especially a Bhery!). In fact, only one I have seen in 40 years has had one. The $!7.50 attentuator shown from Electronics Plus is exactly what is needed here, not a balanced XLR one, nor one to build.
Electronics Plus - Hard to find parts and accessories, available and ready to ship!

Just simple, nothing more to say.
Perfect! Thanks.
Old 12th September 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
You're welcome! I love watching how the Slutz will cover all sorts of variations on a solution, even the right one, so I like to steer it back when I can. I've been meaning to address the Zoom input level so I don't need to bring my expensive recorders to every gig, since I have my old H2, a new H2n, and now a Q3HD.

Speaking of which, the Q3HD has a more ideal line input, which doesn't overload as easily, though it has no input level control at all! Makes excellent recordings, too.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 0 views: 1031
Avatar for Garret
Garret 9th October 2007
replies: 57 views: 61552
Avatar for rojaros
rojaros 5th January 2013
replies: 60 views: 63700
Avatar for MaineJess
MaineJess 25th March 2013
replies: 142 views: 28582
Avatar for daveybasso
daveybasso 6th September 2012
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump