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OM1 - What's it about?
Old 8th January 2021 | Show parent
  #571
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpa ➡️
This is actually a very good piano sound. I like the tail placement more and more. I hear a bit of noise in the recording; not an issue, but I’d like to understand wether it’s the om1 self noise or it is room/hvac related. Also would like to know if a flat response mic as om 1 is generally indicated for a tail placement or a brighter omni would be considered as a more suitable option.
It's likely a cumulative noise total of all those factors, and possibly preamp also...hard to tease them apart and apportion blame ! If you get the "Decca Book" referred to often in these Remote threads in the last 3 months or so there's an extensive chapter on the Decca piano approach....it's probably incorrect to call it the Decca Tail method, as it's actually variable in placement within an arc between end-foot (tail) and mid-piano.

It's recommended that an SD Omni with HF bump be used : 2S, NT-5omni or sE8, again referenced and justified in the Decca Book. Your recording life is unquestionably incomplete without this 2021 publication!
Old 8th January 2021 | Show parent
  #572
Gear Maniac
 
Thanks. I’ve read a good part of the thread during last days; there I’ve listened to a lot of nice recordings. I’ve also read about the hf bump you recall for the best performance; yet I liked a lot the sound of your clip with a flat omni. That’s why I asked you.
Old 8th January 2021 | Show parent
  #573
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
It's possible to boost the HF of a flat omni pair like the OM-1, if you felt it needed the kick that the 'bump' mics like KM183, NT5-Omni, Schoeps MK2S or Se8 omni give. However, if the OM-1 were contributing noise already, then boosting that HF region would add yet more...which wouldn't be desirable.

Conversely, getting one of the 'bump' trinity above gives you that boost into the bargain, and if you decide to suppress it later with EQ, you'd be doing so with no noise penalty (in fact you be reducing noise...if any were present)

You'll very likely find this piano recording thread helpful, and I've contributed a comparison set of mic perspectives (incl yet another 'flat omni' pair of MKH8020) for you to audition [post#28, with pics]: Philip Siney’s multi-pair piano technique

Last edited by studer58; 8th January 2021 at 03:42 PM..
Old 12th March 2021
  #574
Here for the gear
 
Why did Line Audio upgrade cm3 to cm4? Do they have plans to upgrade om-1 as well?
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #575
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefheart ➡️
Why did Line Audio upgrade cm3 to cm4? Do they have plans to upgrade om-1 as well?
I think it was because the capsule (or some other equally important component) was no longer available. No doubt JP Gerard will be along shortly to answer definitively...
Old 13th March 2021
  #576
Company Rep
 
jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey guys, yes, a capsule component was discontinued, the whole capsule had to be redesigned, it was possible to get a bit more 180° rejection, closer to a true Cardioid, the small differences with the CM3 meant the new mic couldn't be called CM3 still, so CM4 was chosen. The head amp is the same. It's not an improvement, it's a replacement. Of course for those who needed roughly 1dB more back rejection, it's an improvement, I guess.
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #577
Company Rep
 
jpgerard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
NO changes to the OM1 are in the works.
Old 13th March 2021 | Show parent
  #578
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgerard ➡️
NO changes to the OM1 are in the works.
....which is a good thing, since it ain't broken...no need to fix !
Old 14th March 2021
  #579
Gear Head
Hi
Some 20 mics 2 Schoeps mk21 main with2 Line audio OM1 and 2 AKG XLS for winds ORTF
And 8 CM3 2 CM3 2 Audio Technica Boundary cardioid...Schoeps line audio is mixing great with AKG...set in cardio mod
https://youtu.be/B5O-RGQQ7TU
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Last edited by Filsaf; 14th March 2021 at 05:17 PM.. Reason: Main A B was Om1
Old 15th March 2021 | Show parent
  #580
Gear Head
 
I've recently been enjoying using a pair of OM1s spaced at 30cm on a small bar for outdoor nature/soundscape field recording. However in certain situations the self-noise can be a bit much when the ambience is really quiet.

Among those of you familiar with the OM1, what would be a logical mic upgrade to retain similar flat/freefield frequency response and clean OAR, but with lower self noise? Sennheisers? Ruggedness, portability and low phantom draw are a plus.
Old 15th March 2021 | Show parent
  #581
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filsaf ➡️
Hi
Some 20 mics 2 Schoeps mk21 main with2 Line audio OM1 and 2 AKG XLS for winds ORTF
And 8 CM3 2 CM3 2 Audio Technica Boundary cardioid...Schoeps line audio is mixing great with AKG...set in cardio mod
https://youtu.be/B5O-RGQQ7TU
Basel casino
Really great !
Bravo
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #582
Deleted 141eef3
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmafyew ➡️
I've recently been enjoying using a pair of OM1s spaced at 30cm on a small bar for outdoor nature/soundscape field recording. However in certain situations the self-noise can be a bit much when the ambience is really quiet.

Among those of you familiar with the OM1, what would be a logical mic upgrade to retain similar flat/freefield frequency response and clean OAR, but with lower self noise? Sennheisers? Ruggedness, portability and low phantom draw are a plus.
Sennheiser MKH8020 for this application.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #583
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 141eef3 ➡️
Sennheiser MKH8020 for this application.
Yes, and the older MKH20 are also still excellent and rather immune for moisture. If you have patience, you might find them second-hand...
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #584
Here for the gear
 
Have someone record songwriters with pair of om-1? Could you please share tracks?
Thanks
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #585
Gear Head
 
Following on to the earlier discussion about freefield vs diffuse field omnis, here is a pipe organ recording with a pair of SE8 omnis and a pair of OM1s.

This was a rushed recording of an undergraduate student, playing the organ in Irvine Auditorium in Philadelphia. I was unaware before arriving that the ranks are in the left and right side walls of the square auditorium. The balconies were not available to us, and the organ currently has some maintenance issues (sympathetic buzzing on certain notes, mostly) due to the pandemic. It also has some of the loudest pump noise I've heard.

All those excuses being made -- I had the mics all on the same bar, 14ft above the floor (the highest I could get with my mobile kit), 45cm apart. The SE8 pair was offset 10cm on the bar from the OM1 pair. All mics were pointed forward at the stage. I thought about orienting the bar toward the ranks on one side, so that the sound would be coming from both in front of and behind the array (mics pointed at the ceiling) but the house manager discouraged me from doing this, saying other recordists had tried that and never had good results.

These files are 32-bit FP / 96kHz from my Zoom F6. No processing done other than level-matching with Adobe Audition's loudness matching tool.

OM1s:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rl7y8hdpcd...-3296.wav?dl=0

SE8 omnis:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/epkopsbr41...-3296.wav?dl=0

You'll have to download the files to listen, since Dropbox doesn't support 32 bit FP WAVs.
Attached Thumbnails
OM1 - What's it about?-0413211725_hdr.jpg  
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #586
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmafyew ➡️
Following on to the earlier discussion about freefield vs diffuse field omnis, here is a pipe organ recording with a pair of SE8 omnis and a pair of OM1s.
...
These files are 32-bit FP / 96kHz from my Zoom F6. No processing done other than level-matching with Adobe Audition's loudness matching tool.

OM1s:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rl7y8hdpcd...-3296.wav?dl=0

SE8 omnis:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/epkopsbr41...-3296.wav?dl=0

You'll have to download the files to listen, since Dropbox doesn't support 32 bit FP WAVs.
Bit bass heavy for my taste but I liked the OM1 little bit better.
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #587
Gear Maniac
 
Listening to these two files suggests me a consideration of SE 8's self noise, which doesn't seem less than om-1. In a SE 8 thread somebody has reported that SE 8 shows more self noise than specs tell.
Given that Om-1 are rated -42 db and 18db self noise vs. SE 8 -34 sensitivity and 15db I'd say that Line Audio are not noisier.
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #588
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpa ➡️
Listening to these two files suggests me a consideration of SE 8's self noise, which doesn't seem less than om-1. In a SE 8 thread somebody has reported that SE 8 shows more self noise than specs tell.
Given that Om-1 are rated -42 db and 18db self noise vs. SE 8 -34 sensitivity and 15db I'd say that Line Audio are not noisier.
I don't think you can evaluate the self-noise of either mic in this situation. What you're hearing is organ pump hiss. It sounds like preamp noise or mic self-noise because it's stereo decorrelated, but that's because of the design of the organ -- and the fact that there were pumps at 90 degrees right and 90 degrees left. The pumps were really very loud in the hall, easily audible over conversation. The SE8s, being brighter diffuse-field mics, picked up more of that noise (despite it originating from 90 degrees off-axis).

In some other tests I've done with these mics, the SE8s did indeed have slightly lower noise than the OM1s with the F6. But it wasn't a big difference.

Falcon1, I also preferred the OM1s. I felt they rendered the ambience better, while picking up less pump noise. I also noticed that the SE8s seemed to have more bass than the OM1s, which was contrary to my earlier impression of them.
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #589
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmafyew ➡️
I don't think you can evaluate the self-noise of either mic in this situation. What you're hearing is organ pump hiss. It sounds like preamp noise or mic self-noise because it's stereo decorrelated, but that's because of the design of the organ -- and the fact that there were pumps at 90 degrees right and 90 degrees left. The pumps were really very loud in the hall, easily audible over conversation. The SE8s, being brighter diffuse-field mics, picked up more of that noise (despite it originating from 90 degrees off-axis).

In some other tests I've done with these mics, the SE8s did indeed have slightly lower noise than the OM1s with the F6. But it wasn't a big difference.

Falcon1, I also preferred the OM1s. I felt they rendered the ambience better, while picking up less pump noise. I also noticed that the SE8s seemed to have more bass than the OM1s, which was contrary to my earlier impression of them.
Thank you for making this thing clear.
So you can confirm that SE8 has audibly less self noise than om-1?
How would you rate it's brightness? Less than KM183 or Rode nt55? Just asking to understand if SE8 could be too bright in a close miking situation.

Last edited by carpa; 15th April 2021 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: add something
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #590
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpa ➡️
Thank you for making this thing clear.
So you can confirm that SE8 has audibly less self noise than om-1?
How would you rate it's brightness? Less than KM183 or Rode nt55? Just asking to understand if SE8 could be too bright in a close miking situation.
I can confirm that *my* SE8s have slightly less audible self-noise than the OM1s, yes. Plus, the higher sensitivity does reduce the intrusion of preamp noise. But I also know that there are at least three different versions of the SE8 head amp PCB floating around, and that the early versions did in fact have quite a bit more noise than spec. The other caveat is that the SE8 -10 and -20 pads degrade SNR pretty badly -- absolute noise level goes UP when you engage the pad, while the signal goes down.

I have four SE8 bodies, all "V3" PCBs with WIMA film capsule coupling caps (earlier versions had ceramic), with two matched pairs of cardioid capsules and one matched pair of omni capsules.

The SE8 omni capsule is certainly too bright for close miking, though this is a matter of taste -- the top end is incredibly close to a KM183 (it is after all an obvious copy of it). But the SE8 cardioid capsule is far less bright, and much better for close spot applications. I actually use the SE8 cardioids as close tom and snare mics -- because they can handle the SPL cleanly with the pads engaged, and the worse SNR doesn't matter for that. They also find use in live situations for acoustic guitar, mallet percussion, and pop piano.
Old 15th April 2021 | Show parent
  #591
Gear Maniac
 
Thank you for your detailed description. I’d like to buy a pair of budget omnis but I’ll mostly use them on piano at home or on stage but as close spots or as main pair at no more than 4 feet, so it seems that om 1 may still be the best option. Probably at that distance self noise won’t matter that much.
Nice recordings: I liked both
Old 16th April 2021 | Show parent
  #592
Gear Head
 
I really enjoy using OM1s close on piano, and would recommend them for that over the SEs. My wife has a 1930s upright piano which has removable front panels and kneeboard -- I often open it up and mic it with two OM1s on the hammers up top and one OM1 on the strings beneath. Works very well, and has surprisingly little room ambience.
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #593
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
As a Live Sound / Live Broadcast engineer, I do a lot of Cabaret-style performance (Grand Piano, maybe a small jazz-style ensemble, and Vocalist) where I close-mic the Piano with two Omnis. I either have them in Foam Blocks sitting on the frame in the 'curve' or clamped to the frame about 8" back from the hammers - depending on the repertoire, as visible stands for a close-micing scenario are undesirable in such work. I purchased my OM-1s for this role, but found that in very few cases, with one or two of the Pianists I work with, the OM-1s could reach their SPL limit and go noticeably crunchy-sounding. I switched back to my Sennheiser MKH8020s for this role in Grand Pianos, but the OM-1s have never been overloaded by Uprights and I'll happily use them there.

For Recording Session work with another set of Mains however - the OM-1s are my Piano Spots of choice, usually in a 'towards the tail' placement (on a stand). They just seem to 'meld' in a mix better than 8020s for me in that role, just as the CM-3s do for me as Orchestral spots. Subtle difference, but the right tool even when one has more expensive tools available.
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #594
Gear Maniac
 
[QUOTE=njrsound;15411340 with one or two of the Pianists I work with, the OM-1s could reach their SPL limit and go noticeably crunchy-sounding.[/QUOTE]
Did you power them with 48 v? It seems that when powered with 34 or 11v their handling SPL capability goes worse.
In any case their max SPL is 133, a bit less then Sennheiser, still it should not be a problem if not very very close?
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #595
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpa ➡️
Did you power them with 48 v? It seems that when powered with 34 or 11v their handling SPL capability goes worse.
In any case their max SPL is 133, a bit less then Sennheiser, still it should not be a problem if not very very close?
The standard spec is for 48v phantom power +\- 4 volt ...where are you even getting 11 volt or 34 volt from, ...one of these >>> https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf ??

https://www.tangible-technology.com/...and%20cheaper.

Yes, Line Audio specify: "12-48v (P48 recommended for best performance)"

it's not a cheap crappy electret lavalier that's happy with 1.5 or 5 volt "plug-in power". on a TRRRRRSSSS 1/8"plug....

There is a Geneva Convention statute against mistreating mics which are held captive...are you a sadist ?

Yes... you could expect both increased noise level and decreased dynamic range, from any underpowered microphone....so why do this..... simply give it 48v @4mA, then think no more about it ?

Why spend good money on a good performing mic...then starve it of operating power and compromise the performance potential ?
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #596
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
The standard spec is for 48v phantom power +\- 4 volt ...where are you even getting 11 volt or 34 volt from, ...one of these >>> https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf ??

https://www.tangible-technology.com/...and%20cheaper.

Yes, Line Audio specify: "12-48v (P48 recommended for best performance)"

it's not a cheap crappy electret lavalier that's happy with 1.5 or 5 volt "plug-in power". on a TRRRRRSSSS 1/8"plug....

There is a Geneva Convention statute against mistreating mics which are held captive...are you a sadist ?

Yes... you could expect both increased noise level and decreased dynamic range, from any underpowered microphone....so why do this..... simply give it 48v @4mA, then think no more about it ?

Why spend good money on a good performing mic...then starve it of operating power and compromise the performance potential ?
All true...I just wrote about the @ njrsound 's post about having clipped the mics in some circumstances and wondering if potentially under powering could have occurred. But maybe yes, it was just too close or a super loud sound. Only I didn't think a piano could go over 133 db!
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #597
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpa ➡️
Only I didn't think a piano could go over 133 db!
Me neither...although maybe a Beatles "Day in the Life " final chord might push limits, especially if miked inside the piano, with lid closed.....


BTW ...I found an example of a potentially (although switchable to 48v also) mean-spirited phantom powered mixer for you:
https://pubs.shure.com/guide/FP24/en-US

and another, there were quite a few Shure mixers with T power and 'less than 48v phantom'....https://pubs.shure.com/guide/FP33/en-US

Why waste valuable DC voltage on those useless condensor mics anyway...just use a good old Shure dynamic....!

Last edited by studer58; 17th April 2021 at 03:03 PM..
Old 17th April 2021 | Show parent
  #598
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Me neither...although maybe a Beatles "Day in the Life " final chord might push limits, especially if miked inside the piano, with lid closed.....


BTW ...I found an example of a potentially (although switchable to 48v also) mean-spirited phantom powered mixer for you:
https://pubs.shure.com/guide/FP24/en-US

and another, there were quite a few Shure mixers with T power and 'less than 48v phantom'....https://pubs.shure.com/guide/FP33/en-US

Why waste valuable DC voltage on those useless condensor mics anyway...just use a good old Shure dynamic....!
Interesting, thanks. In a few weeks I'll have my music room ready after some month of restoring and I'll fiddle around with my stuff...probably buy an om-1 pair to compliment my Cm4's. By now I can live with my Zoom h6 ( with a couple of boosters and an external Littlebox preamp if needed) and my audio interface if I use pc. Perhaps better to invest a little on decent mics and in the future save for a mixpreII.
Old 19th April 2021 | Show parent
  #599
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
BTW....when did the OM-1 become the Omni 1...I must have dozed off briefly and Roger J snuck in a name change !

http://www.lineaudio.se/Omni1.html
Old 19th April 2021 | Show parent
  #600
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
BTW....when did the OM-1 become the Omni 1...I must have dozed off briefly and Roger J snuck in a name change !

http://www.lineaudio.se/Omni1.html
I came across line audio website no more than 2 days ago and was still om-1...new thread ahaha?
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