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Genex and Merging Technologies announcement
Old 29th April 2003
  #1
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🎧 15 years
Genex and Merging Technologies announcement

For those of us who think that digital audio headed down the wrong path almost from the beginning (questionable features and whiz-bang editing tricks instead of bulletproof reliability and audio performance), could this be the start of a new direction?

http://www.genexaudio.com/press/rele...020Merging.pdf


steve
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Old 29th April 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Is there any use for DSD besides someone doing live stuff? My music can't really be recorded live but also really doesn't need a ton of effects- maybe some reverb, delay, and compression here and there. I'd sure like to have a next generation sound, but it really doesn't seem practical at all.
Old 29th April 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
dbluefield's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am seriously looking at genex's stuff now. And with the Merging ease of file compatibility, this could be just what I need from a 24 trk recorder. I talked to them last week, and the price points look good comparable to the other high end hard disk recorders.

Meanwhile I think I will start doing some listening of SACD in my control room. I've heard it once (I have friends at philips) and from what I remember, I liked dsd.

Another question is the converter quality in the 9048. And some feedback from new users would be nice. But hey the thing records PCM too, and is capable of its own dithering.

I'm following this baby closely.

Mack
Old 30th April 2003
  #4
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🎧 15 years
I wish I was more into the technology behind this stuff. I'm just a lowly artist with nice, easy to use gear =/ I can't figure out if DSD makes any sense for what I am doing (which is basically building the ideal studio for my own music and for the music of groups I really admire)
Old 30th April 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This is great news for the future of DSD production... the fact of the matter, though is there are several things that have not been worked out in DSD.

The effects are primitive, and there are no digital reverbs, delays, etc... If you want those, you need to either mix analog or convert to PCM. To use 48 track DSD instead of tape presents another issue that nobody is really talking about.

High-frequency buildup (and noise buildup). Because the top end is so clear and extended on DSD, I have heard of problems with things like speaker tweeters getting blown. The filtering also hasn't fully been worked out (for that matter, filtering in PCM is still being improved after how many years...).

DSD, if you look at it also isn't very quiet across all frequencies. At higher frequencies, there is a pretty substantial noise floor. For 2 channels or 4 channels of work, this really isn't an issue. When we are combining 48 channels, though, this could be an issue.

There are also the issues as to DSD purity. The Pyramix DAW actually converts to a high-frequency PCM signal for its operations on the audio. It then converts back to DSD at the end. I'm not knowledgable enough to discuss pros and cons of this, but it is the subject of a lot of mastering engineers as to the fact that it isn't "pure" DSD anymore.

I'm not saying that these issues are insurmountable... DSD is still a very young technology and because it is a complete depature from PCM, methods of working with it still need working out. As a mix-down and delivery format, I'd be thrilled. I'm just not sure I'd want to use it [yet] as a tracking format.

--Ben
Old 30th April 2003
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
dbluefield's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm in somewhat of the same boat battleangel. I'm figuring this stuff out the best I can as it goes.

As to the high frequency buildup, your the first to mention that Ben. Is this something you have heard? Or read about? Or seen on a waveform display? Please illuminate if you can.

Maybe its a problem, maybe not. I'm looking forward to hearing some feedback from people that have actually multi-tracked in the genex 9048 dsd recorder.

As far as the sound goes for the final dsd product, I think this format has a future -- I liked what little I've heard so far and it's backward compatible with PCM cds -- so SACD's will play on cd players. The fact that the final dsd 2 track or surround mix cannot yet be "burned" on a stand-alone unit, is of some issue.

From my conversation with genex, it sounds like they are treating the 9048 as a stand-alone recorder, like the radar. Plus it can record multitrack PCM as well. What's not to like there? Plus it will make a seamless transfer to pyramix for editing, without format headaches -- this sounds cool to me. Especially because I have the luxury right now of not having committed to a platform.

I quess, the main thing is how are the converters? How does it sound? How easy is it to use etc? The mystery begins

Not having great effects in the partnership product pyramix is not a big concern for me at this point, since I wish to use an outboard console and outboard effects; I can wait to they improve.

If the genex sounds great and is rock solid like the radar, then that could be enough for me; 24 tracks would be plenty to start with; the quality of the recording system and sound is my main concern, and it looks like this thing could be more quality for less dinaros than say a radar nyquist sytem.

Any beta-testers out there gonna pipe up?

Best,

Mack
Old 1st May 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
"If the genex sounds great and is rock solid like the radar, then that could be enough for me; 24 tracks would be plenty to start with; the quality of the recording system and sound is my main concern, and it looks like this thing could be more quality for less dinaros than say a radar nyquist sytem."

That's where I am too.
Old 1st May 2003
  #8
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hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
***********************
I quess, the main thing is how are the converters? How does it sound? How easy is it to use etc? The mystery begins
************************

Genex already has earned its rep for top tier converters. I can't see why the converters in their new box would be anything but top notch (real hi-end, not Apogee level)


***********************
If the genex sounds great and is rock solid like the radar, then that could be enough for me; 24 tracks would be plenty to start with; the quality of the recording system and sound is my main concern, and it looks like this thing could be more quality for less dinaros than say a radar nyquist sytem.

Any beta-testers out there gonna pipe up?
***********************

not a beta-tester, but I just received my invoice and the check is going out tomorrow. I'm stretching way beyond my DA-78 budget, so I could be offering some interesting items for sale in the next couple of weeks, if I want to eat food anytime soon......
I've been told to expect a two week (+/-) delivery time. just enough time to purchase a bunch of other necessary, but expensive stuff (custom ATA case, Seagate Cheetah hard drive, some cabling, etc.) You can get the recorders with hard drives already installed, but I chose to grab my own. And I haven't decided what to put into the second bay yet.

Here's a question for all of you guys who are MUCH more digital savvy than I am, what to install in that 2nd drive bay? A great big hard drive is the obvious choice for drive #1, but I thought that the 2nd drive should offer a way to archive projects on their own removable media. Tape drives are very expensive, but it doesn't appear that anybody makes small hard drives that could be swapped out like a reel of 2". The suggested Seagate Cheetah drive (that I'm using in bay #1) isn't available smaller than 18G. I'd like to find a compatible drive around 5G - that size could be purchased for every project. Any better ideas?

steve
[email protected]
Old 1st May 2003
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
dbluefield's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hollywood!

I hope you take a few moments to document you experience for us!

Best,

Mack
Old 3rd May 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It took a while to scrape together the necessary funds, but I paid for my GX9000 recorder today. I'm expecting something like a two week wait until my unit is ready for delivery. If I read the available material correctly, the analog to digital converters are able to provide both the PCM and DSP outputs simultaneously. (I could be wrong about this.) If this is true, it will allow for very easy A/B testing between PCM and DSD versions of a single analog input.

One option that I did NOT spring for at this time was the optional editing software package. I'll be plenty busy getting used to having 8ch for location recording instead of the 2ch that I have been working with. But I'd be very interested in hearing from anybody who did purchased the editing package. Unlike several comments from other folk, the Genex editing software does NOT convert the DSD signal to PCM for editing. All editing takes place in the DSD environment.

Anybody else seriously considering one of the new Genex boxes?

steve
[email protected]
Old 3rd May 2003
  #11
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
24 track model is looking good!

(is that available yet?)

Good luck!



Keep us posted!
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