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Flügel vs. Cornet?
Old 1st August 2005
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Caldo71's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Flügel vs. Cornet?

Hey All,

I'm working on this album right now where the artists has a couple of pieces that verge on Burt Bacharachanalian territory and he wanted some real trumpet sounds on there. His label guy recommended a local flügelhorn player and it was all lined up but then the guy dropped off the ****ing map suddenly. Having our own deadlines, we decided to have a local cornet player friend come in instead, and he did a great job.

BUT...the Flügel guy just surfaced again and it turned out he had to go to the hospital with some weird surpirse illness. He's pledged that he wants to do the parts when he gets out, but that will be well into when we're supposed to be done with recording and on to mixing. And I like what the cornet guy did.

I don't have any experience working with different kind of horn players so my question is this: is it really worth it "tone-wise" to get the flügel guy in for "authenticity"? I'm not very familiar with the sound of a flügel versus say the sound of a cornet or trumpet. I assume it's somehow softer, huskier, breath-ier? But is it gonna make enough difference to us (when we already like what we have) to validate slowing us down an extra half-week? Or is the difference in sound so subtle that nobody will end up giving a ****?

Any and all opinions welcome.
Adam
Old 1st August 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Flugels are much different-sounding instruments than cornets, which are quite similar to trumpets. While a flugel is more similar to a trumpet than say, a saxophone, it is a much softer-sounding and mellower instrument. Bacharach used trumpets and flugels on plenty of stuff, so it's not necessarily a matter of flugel being "the way to go" for that sort of thing. If you're happy with the cornet stuff that's there and you're on a tight schedule, don't mess with it. If you can stand to spend a day listening to options and it's not going to cost you an arm and a leg, it may be worth at least hearing.

I'd look for a trombone player if I were you. Nudge nudge, wink wink.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Old 1st August 2005
  #3
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
the fundamental difference between the flugel/cornet and the trumpet is the latter has a conical bore whereas the trumpet has a cylindrical bore......

a conical bore will produce a warmer less piercing tone....a cornet though, has a more piercing tone than a flugel, due to the fact that it's smaller and higher in pitch, which is why it is used traditionally as the top voice in British brass ensembles...

at least that's what I remember from my brass instrumental class in music school..
Old 1st August 2005 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54
a conical bore will produce a warmer less piercing tone....a cornet though, has a more piercing tone than a flugel, due to the fact that it's smaller and higher in pitch, which is why it is used traditionally as the top voice in British brass ensembles...

at least that's what I remember from my brass instrumental class in music school..
Your memory laspses are forgiven: A flugelhorn has a conical bore, but a cornet has a hybrid bore: partially conical & partially cylindrical (like a trumpet), which is why in textbook cases the cornet's sound is in between that of the trumpet & the flugelhorn. But all three instruments are most commonly pitched in Bb & have identical ranges.

No brass player on the planet is the textbook case however, so, in answer to the OP, it will entirely depend on the individual players rather than the instrument. Remember that all those Al Hirt or Herb Alpert tunes were performed on trumpet, yet they have the rounded, mellow, "swinging bachelor pad" vibe that many folks turn to flugelhorn for. It all depends on the player. So if your cornet player nailed the vibe, just move on. If not, unless you know for a fact that this flugelhorn player can nail that vibe, there's no guarantee that it'll be a sonic improvement just because he shows up with a different instrument.
Old 1st August 2005
  #5
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
imo the vast majority of the difference between the cornet tracks and the flugel tracks will be what the players play, and how they play it. if you have tracks you love, what more do you need?

to break it down, no waiting = no stress, good tracks = no stress. waiting = stress, unknown tracks = stress.

seems like a no brainer, but then again, i may have no brain.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 1st August 2005 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If it's gonna screw up the schedule and you both like the cornet, move on. If there's time get the Flugel in and try the parts. While he's there have him play some harmony lines to the cornet.
Old 1st August 2005 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
PlugHead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If the track sounds fine with the cornet, leave it. If you find it a bit too bright, and 'trumpet-like', then opt for the flugelhorn to replace it, as the flugel is WAY mellower, and has a throaty and dark timbre , way moreso than either trumpet or cornet...

best with it!
Old 1st August 2005 | Show parent
  #8
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Curtis Franklin's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Bacharachanalian

just want to say woot to this new word.
Old 2nd August 2005 | Show parent
  #9
no ssl yet
Guest
Record the flugel

Man I played trumped for years. I love the tone you get from a Flugel when you need that soft Magionne sound. I'd say cut both and use the one that works. Hell have the cornet guy rent a flugel and play some variety for you, It wont be much of an adjust mentfor him
Old 2nd August 2005 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Go with the flugel, no question about it, if you want the Bacharach sound, the cornet isn't going to cut it, imho.
Old 2nd August 2005 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
smarsland's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Cool

Professional trumpet player here....

Flugel is a whole different beast than trumpet. It will lend a certain authenticity to what you're doing (based on what I read) and I think its worth it to wait for him. Herb Alpert stuff is usually played on a trumpet (brighter than brightly played and recorded), but Bachrach stuff is usually more chocolately, yes?

Even the mouthpiece is different on a flugel (more V shaped vs. more U shaped), giving a much darker sound. A cornet is not a trumpet, but does have a nice light sound as compared with the trumpet. If darkness/richness of tone is what you need, you need to wait.

s
Old 2nd August 2005 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Caldo71's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for all the help, guys. Especially nice to har from pro horn players. I'm sure that it won't kill us to record both and see...even if we're already mixing at that point. We'll just mix using the cornet (if we get to those songs before Flügelboy shows up) and we can A/B with the flügel and maybe use a little of both. The cornet guy is a friend and he showed up for free with a lot of good compositional ideas that actually helped the orchestration sound more like what we were going for, so it would be ****ty to drop him from the tracks completely. I'm sure a little of both would be nice.

Adam
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